Discuss Nial Fuller Price action forex education method

[Pharaoh]

On top of it,, acccording to the same legal counsel at the CFTC, if Nial had been trading a live account for 3 months at the time he created this video, he actually is not allowed to use any simulated/demo account for his education. Furthermoore, he cannot use this CFTC disclamer because 1) it is not applicable and 2) after 3 months of live trading you cannot use any demo/simulated trade examples,only live examples.

I think you need to get clarification on this from your contact along with a link to where this rule is.

From what you say, if I start an educational service, show a few examples out of my live account for 3 months, you're telling me that your interpretation of the conversation you had is that it would be illegal for me to then show any example from a demo account. In the incredibly unlikely event that such a rule exists, I'd be very happy to present that case before a jury.


How does that jibe with this? From http://www.cftc.gov/ucm/groups/public/@lrlettergeneral/documents/letter/01-60.pdf :

Under Rule 4.41(b), presentation by a CTA of the performance of a simulated or hypothetical commodity interest account must prominently display the prescribed cautionary statement of either Rule 4.41(b)(1)(i) or Rule4.41(b)(1)(ii).

Thus, ANYTHING on demo MUST be accompanied by the disclaimer. I haven't found anything in writing on the CFTC website saying that an excessively cautious person or company can't make the disclaimer a default if some results are live and some are mixed.

The phone number you gave is the main office of the CFTC. It's a big organization. There's bound to be more than one Christopher. See if you can get an email address for him. See if you can get him to give you exact links that show a rule as you've claimed and post them here. If there is a link to a rule, post it so we can all see it.

If you can show this rule clearly laid out in writing, then you've got all you need to file a complaint against Nial with the CFTC. If you can't, then I'll consider this to be a wild claim based on a misinterpretation of the facts.

 

[Demonkiller9]

I think you need to get clarification on this from your contact along with a link to where this rule is.

Thus, ANYTHING on demo MUST be accompanied by the disclaimer.

The phone number you gave is the main office of the CFTC. It's a big organization. There's bound to be more than one Christopher. See if you can get an email address for him.

Hello Pharaoh,

I contacted Christopher again today and he gave information of one of their Attorneys you can contact with specific information on the rule 4.41, see beloow:

Zachary J. King
Attorney-Advisor
Division of Swap Dealer and Intermediary Oversight
Commodity Futures Trading Commission
1155 21st St. NW
Washington, DC 20581
ph: 202-418-5364
zking@www.cftc.gov

According to the initial conversation I had with Christopher (cannot remember his last name at the moment), and then with Zachary, they specifically stated the ONLY REASON to post this disclaimer would be if it was a demo/simulated trade. If it is a live trade, there is absolutely no need to and it should actually be a different disclaimer. 4.41 refers only to only simulated or hypothetical performance coming from simulated/demo accounts. It has absolutely nothing to do with live trading.

I will call upon Zarchary if I can get any clarification in wriiting.
DK9

 

[Demonkiller9]

From text Zachary gave regarding the rule 4.41;
With regard to the presentation of simulated or hypothetical performance results, the Commission explained that it had adopted in Regulation 4.41(b) ‘‘a rule that allows the presentation of those results, provided that the presentation is accompanied by the statement prescribed in the rule,’’ whose purpose was ‘‘to alert prospective customers to the limitations inherent in simulated and hypothetical past performance results"

I am not a lawyer and not claiiming to be, but it does seem clear this disclaimer is only needed for demo/simulated trades. From what I have comprehended from our conversations, another disclaimer is needed for presenting live trades.

Will convo with Zach on the morrow with updated informatiion.
DK9

 

[Pharaoh]

That makes it sound like the disclaimer is unnecessary for live results. Not like it's prohibited or like showing a demo example is banned.

If I showed examples where some were demo and some were live, I'd probably just slap the disclaimer onto everything so I wouldn't have any chance of ever forgetting to put it onto a demo example - unless the CFTC showed me specifically where this was banned. I'd also be deeply shocked if there's any rule that prohibits an educator from using any demo example if he's also used live examples for 3 months.

I look forward to seeing more about this.

 

[Black Bird]

I'm going to try and be fair here.

In his free commentary Trading Setups Commentary – Daily Forex Trading Commentary | Learn To Trade Nial or his coach says:

EUR / USD - We see potential for a move lower if price breaks down past the low of this pin bar.

Member's Commentary:

AUD / USD – .....we could see a resumption of downward price movement if the low of this pin bar breaks. There isn’t much support until about 0.9980.

NZD / USD – .... If the mother bar low breaks we would likely see a larger move lower.

A lot of members are Short on the above pairs either at the break of the Pin Bars or half way of the PBs and/or the break of the mother bar (Nzd / Usd)
The commentary was published shortly after NY close so the lows of the PBs have broke BUT in both cases the price reversed. The MB of the Nz / Us did not break yet.

I do NOT agree with any of the analysis; as a matter of fact I took a Long on Eur / Usd at 1.3700 with my tp at 1.3870 and sl 1.3660.

The sl of traders is above the PB, which is what Nial advises. High of Eur / Usd PB is 1.3868 and high of Aud / Usd is 1.0353.

Now, if the price on Eur / Usd and Aud / Usd reverses and follows Nial's analysis I will stand corrected and take back everything I said on my previous post.

I think this is a very fair play. Price at time of typing on Eur / Usd is 1.3832 and on Aud / Usd is 1.0262.

I'll keep you updated.

Results:
In spite Nial’s confidence and advising traders not to panic on the Eur / Usd – see commentary 20th October – the price rose above the pin bar by 32 pips to 1.3900 and closed just below. I was stopped out only because my sl was 5 pips above the pivot point otherwise this would have been a very good trade! On the Aud / Usd the same scenario – was expected as there is a strong correlation between the two pairs – the price rose above the pin bar by 24 pips and closed at 1.0375.

The reason I said I do not agree with his analysis was/is because bearish pin bars work best at the top of a momentum uptrend / pullback and in some intervals of a strong downtrend. The price on both pairs was moving sideways in this case.

Conclusions / Comments:
Nial’s analysis based on his Pin Bar theory failed miserably. As a matter of fact not only I have found his analysis to be of no use at all, in the 5 months that I’ve been a member, but in some cases I have found it to be counterproductive. As a new member on his forum said “Today total failure…” check my post #142 for more details.

Nial’s whole course is based on pin bars, inside bars and inside bars followed by what he calls a fakey. He advocates using minor fakeys only on the Daily charts though. Furthermore, he advises to take a trade only when there is confluence for example, a bullish pin bar at support level on an uptrend combined with the 8EMA and 21EMA crossing higher etc. but he doesn’t necessarily follow the advice himself as you can see in the paragraph below. That is why it makes it so hard to find any trades, as price action is more than just pin bars and inside bars, and that is the possible reason he says that he rarely trades:

“Pin bars are basically what i built my fortune from , along with various other things of course , but honestly.. i trade so rarely now (as you may notice).. but i truly go in hard if i like something. I like pins followed by inside bars. DEAD give away when you see a pin followed by consolidation and then a break.. if you read that, it's like the market is talking to you.. with trend or against trend. if the market "has enough room to move" they can produce good trades. Remember.. that counter trend trades can only work out if theres "room for the market to move back into value" ...

Did he really build his fortune from pin bars or from people like myself buying into his “Price Action” course??

:err:

 

[NIAL FULLER]

Hi All,

I had previously said in this thread that I would never return to these forums.
However, I would like to clarify the truth here after several people have asked for my public comment on the matter.

I value my trading community and it's members. I also stand behind the integrity of the product & service I provide to them and believe the truth shall always prevail.

1. I post a disclaimer on just about all of my videos. They have been there since 2008 when I started. It does not mean that all videos show demo trades, this is untrue. The video showing a $10,000 profit was recorded a long time ago but it was indeed a real trade. I have also used the same disclaimer on many subsequent videos and on various areas of my website.

2. Since starting back in 2008, my lawyer has provided several revisions to these disclaimers, and frankly it's just all legal stuff, part of the industry, one must have them. Accusing me of being a 'fake' just because I have several disclaimers is not a fair statement.

3. In relation to my commentary and trading calls. Firstly, I am not providing any specific trade advice or entry/exit signals. I do however provide my experienced insights, theories and thoughts on the forex charts each day. There has been statements made here regarding my analysis. The comments show very biased negative examples from my commentary when in actual fact there are also just as many successful trade setups and ideas I discuss in my commentary. All traders know, there will be winners and losers, that is the nature of trading.

4. I have looked over this thread from when it started. It's quite a shame that amongst the balanced comments, there are a few contributors here who have an ongoing agenda to continue to shoot bullets at me from all angles. You will notice, that continuous attempts are being made by the same people over and over to bring about negativity and slander to my name, my trading community and it's members.

5. My members have posted up plenty of truthful reviews of their success and experiences with my teachings and community. Yet this is overlooked and their posts continue to be buried beneath the lies here. In fact, my members have been attacked and ridiculed, falsely accused and so on. I have no idea how this allows for a fair depiction of me or what I do.

6. Another thing that keeps being ignored is that I teach price action. Any Professional trader (some of whom I have taught personally) will agree, price action is a genuine trading approach, a real concept used by traders to read and predict price movement. I teach existing concepts which are universally recognized, as well as many of my own proprietary trading strategies. I started my trading community to share my knowledge with others, to network with other traders, and to improve my own trading. It has grown to a size and following well beyond my wildest expectations. Surely this is a testimony to me, my trading community and the credibility of the strategies and concepts that I teach.

As always, I ask people to be their own judge by visiting my blog or talking with me directly for clarification.

All the best

Nial
www.LearnToTradeTheMarket.com

 

[kuropansa]

Support for Nial's Methods on the EUR USD

Hi.

With so much negativity been directed towards Nial in this thread just wanted
to offer some more support for Nial and his methods from a current and active member of Nial's forum.

Please see my ID at the bottom and yes I'm a real person as I have already mentioned here before.

If you go back through Nial's daily chart commentary on the EUR USD daily chart alone since the start of this year you will see that he mentions a total of 28 setups that conform with the method he teaches that could have been traded in the following session. (I live in Australia so I get the commentary early in the morning.)

Of these 28 I found probably only 2 would have stopped me out for a loss of 1 risk while the 26 others if managed well would have given me at least 2 to 3 times reward for my risk. Now of course this is only backtesting and since joining in August this year I traded 4 of those setups on the EURUSD which were all winners giving me 2 times reward. I'm not greedy, 2 times reward is enough for me.

In many of the negative posts I read on this thread I feel there is way too much anger and emotion in the words of the writer. It seems to me that this could be a reason why this person maybe is not finding success in the market and feels the need to target others who are successful.

In the organization I work for we have a saying that describes work place bullies.

"Bullying consists of the least competent most aggressive employee projecting their incompetence on to the least aggressive most competent employee."

For me, I like to stay positive and I only wish all traders the best of success for the methods they find that suit their individual styles of trading.

I know I've found mine.

Tony

Nial's LTTTM Forum ID: kuropansa

 

[Black Bird]

Hi Nial and welcome back to the FPA forum.

Yes, it is true that some of your members supported you on this forum but if it’s also true that you have 5,665 members then the supportive members are far too few!!

Since I took out a membership I have been checking the number of members on your forum and the number is always in the region of 200 – usually under 200. If your members are truly so happy, with your commentary and forum, where are they all gone?!?! This reminds me of traders trying robots and as soon they get few good hits they rush onto forums to post overenthusiastic threads but when they eventually lose everything they don’t bother to come back and edit their reviews. Result: Big sales on Robots, that never work long term, and excellent reviews.

Kuropansa, I can confirm that you are an active member on Nial’s forum. One thing I don’t understand though is this “obsession” of people with bullying! Here in Britain we pride ourselves on our freedom of speech. We can talk about anything we want and express ourselves freely without fear of retribution. Of course, we are not allowed to insult anyone and you may know that Spiro has been banned from the FPA forums for insulting a member.

There is no bullying on this forum only freedom of speech and self-expression.

 

[Demonkiller9]

Yes, it is true that some of your members supported you on this forum but if it’s also true that you have 5,665 members then the supportive members are far too few!!

Since I took out a membership I have been checking the number of members on your forum and the number is always in the region of 200 – usually under 200. If your members are truly so happy, with your commentary and forum, where are they all gone?!?! This reminds me of traders trying robots and as soon they get few good hits they rush onto forums to post overenthusiastic threads but when they eventually lose everything they don’t bother to come back and edit their reviews. Result: Big sales on Robots, that never work long term, and excellent reviews.

Here in Britain we pride ourselves on our freedom of speech. We can talk about anything we want and express ourselves freely without fear of retribution. Of course, we are not allowed to insult anyone and you may know that Spiro has been banned from the FPA forums for insulting a member.

There is no bullying on this forum only freedom of speech and self-expression.

This is perhaps the most reasoned-intelligent-well-thought out response to the situation.

If there are sooo many happy members, where are they all? Notice how soo many of the supportive posts come from people posting 1, 2 or 3x and then are gone? Either they are scripted responses, fakey accounts or obviously people without ongoing success

Kuropansa, there is no bullying here. Who is Blacky Bird bullying? He is merely sharing his opinions. Simply a well informed person with direct experience of the product giving their honest opinion which should be informative for all considering the course.

You said it best Blacky Bird how the entire course revolves around the inside bar, pin bar and fakeyy, which ironically you learn about all for free on the videos.

How about the fact Nile now rarely trades - obviously his income is composited by his course sales. Do the mathh;
5500+members x $339 = $1, 853, 500. I think we can see where Nile made his 'fortune'

It seems Nile needs to fire his lawyer who obviously knows nothing about CFTC law as this disclaimer is only needed if you post demo trades.

What is confounding is in NONE of the videos does Nial state hes trading a demo account. He always claims they are live trades so how is that not manipulating when in his response 'it does not mean all the videos are demo trades' which is him admittign he used some demo trades. Howwever he never admits this in the videos. Nile is fake, and more marketer and a scammer!
DK9

 

[Pharaoh]

Personally, I'd be very surprised if any forex educator never once showed something on a demo account or else showed how a trade could have been taken on old data.

If I wanted to show a simple set of candlesticks and how to trade them, I wouldn't sit around staring at the 4 hour charts on my live account. I'd turn off autoscroll, go to a 1 or 5 minute chart, and scroll back until I found examples of where both successful and failed trading opportunities. If I wanted to show something that my broker doesn't carry (gold, silver, and some exotic pairs), I'd open a demo account with another broker.

Without a direct order from the CFTC to the contrary, if I had an education service that ever once showed even a single example from backtesting, old charts, or a demo, I'd slap a big CFTC waiver all over everything. Otherwise, if I missed a single one, I'd get nailed by the CFTC and would be called a scam.

It's pretty obvious that some people like Nial's methods and others hate them. That's common in the education field. I've had teachers and professors that I thought were great and the person sitting next to me hated. I've also hated some that the person in the next seat loved. There is no one size fits all method of teaching any subject.