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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Smile Complicated!

    @ Duck:

    I totally agree with your statements concerning the worth of trading!

    @ Pharaoh:

    You approached the issue of donating for charity reasons in a very complicated way. If one can afford it, he should help those who need help. If he can´t, he must help himself first by generating income. Which kind of income doesn´t matter, as long as it is legally ok. It´s that simple!

    Happy trading - Stony

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    Cool Giving is living

    If you don't give, you're dead.
    If you give without expecting to receive increase,
    you'll receive it anyway.
    But I give because it gives me joy.
    I do give even out of my loss

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    Thumbs up self interest

    really ,i appreciate your message today because is an eye open one ,it has to do with doing oneself a favor.however is not compulsory but is mandatory ,is not even a science is a natural thing and for our own interest. what you gives is what you will be remember for;but as for me, i have been trying but i think i would like to do conclusion the ball is in your is more blessed than receiving.[do your self a favor]

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Abeokuta Nigeria
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    Default Why trade forex?

    I am glad we are talking this way. The world could use such assistance, as many are miserable with no clear source of a single meal, especially in Africa. I have not actually run into profit, yet; but I know what I will do with such profit when it comes. I will be glad to put some smiles on the faces of quite a number of people around me. You can't believe what 50 to 100 dollars could do in the lives of local people in Africa. Lets continue to talk this way; and may God bless the mover of this discussion.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Tropical Locations
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    Quote Originally Posted by duck View Post
    I'll echo a prior poster on the original questions:

    1. What do we, as forex traders, accomplish?
    2. Do we build things?
    3. Do we contribute anything to the world economy (other than keeping forex brokers and other forex produce sellers employed)?
    4. If the world banks locked all exchange rates tomorrow, would anyone (besides the brokers and product sellers) even miss us?
    5. Is the world a better place directly because of our forex trading?

    #1) As I understand it, forex traders provide liquidity to the finance markets. It is a *real* financial service much like any other you could think of.
    Forex markets existed long before retail traders did. Yes, there's over 1 trillion per day moved, but we are really only a tiny percentage of it.

    #2) No, but neither do many other professions that nonetheless provide a real value to the economy & society.
    Doctors and teachers don't literally build things, but they do provide critical services to society. The guys who collect garbage provide critical services to society. Lose any of these for more than a very short time and society would be in trouble. Lose retail forex traders and a modest percentage (at most) of the daily market liquidity goes away.

    #3) Yes, most definitely. We help ensure prices remain fair between international entities.
    (At least we do if we make money. If we lose it, we do the opposite).
    Mostly, retail forex traders provide money to brokers and to other retail forex traders. Banks and larger financial institutions trade over a trillion every day. We are tiny fish in a HUGE pond.

    #4) Yes, they would. If exchange rates are locked, it would adversely affect imports and exports between countries with different economies, and that affects employment and standards of living. Constantly changing rates reflects changes in economies, and helps keep things fair and balanced (and not like a certain TV network likes to claim).
    Exchange rates were locked for decades by Bretton Woods. It did lead to unfairness for some things. Then again, after currencies began to float, it took quite some time for retain forex to be "invented".

    #5) It is, albeit measuring it may be difficult to do.
    I think our direct impact (good or bad) is really minimal. Using some of our profits can cause a huge indirect benefit from our trading activities.

    Really, since you concede that the world is a better place indirectly with forex trading, then it means the answers to #2-4 *must* be "yes".
    If we use some of our profits to improve the world, that changes a lot of answers from "no" to "yes".

    I also don't quite buy the idea that for you to make money on forex, another forex trader has to lose it. I think there is much more than forex traders that in the markets.
    If you trade with the right bucketshop, it's your broker who loses when you win. Of course, brokers like that make it very difficult to be consistently profitable.

    Still, on a level playing field, forex is slightly less than a zero-sum game (zero-sum minus spreads and commissions).

    On the small end there are tourists from one country visiting another and withdrawing yen out of their dollar based account. They are not looking to make money like we are. They simply need yen and are willing to pay forex traders for the service of helping to provide a fair exchange rate. That's a small example but certainly there are many others.
    People who travel get to trade forex at the bank or airport (you know you're a forex trader when you see a 4 cent difference on buy and sell at the airport and think "400 pips! What a ripoff!") don't really contribute very much liquidity to the market. Their losses are the gain of the bank doing the exchanging.

    On the donation of 10-15%, that's wonderful and very mentally healthy as it helps keep things in perspective.
    And will pay for enough catnip to keep 500 homeless cats entertained for a week.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    Default jurgras

    I have stopped trading Forex all together because I have developed serious ethical problems as a Christian with it.

    Trading is a zero sum game, even a negative sum game. It produces NOTHING of value, no wealth is created like in Stock trading. The net chance in total wealth among traders is zero at the end of the day - the wealth is just SHIFTED from one trader to another!

    It is far too close to gambling for me (some skill, a lot of chance), you also make gains ONLY at another's expense! Jesus said that we should love our neighbor as we love ourselves. How can you do that when you profit at somebody else's expense? To give to worthy causes is great, but the end does not justify the means.

    Think carefully about what I have said. I don't know if anybody can convince me otherwise?

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Las Vegas, NV
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    Default giving

    yes sir, you are 'on the money' about we need to give more. in the 3 to 5 thousand years 'people' supposely have been here I find our speices more and more un-torable. the narcisim and me-me-me attitude is at its' worse. i give what little i can to California Equine Retirement Foundation, Inc. - a retirement community for thorougbred horses. they also save a number of these horses from the 'grinder' .

    we all need to change our attitude about helping out and helping others.
    take care of yourself, then your family, than others.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by jurgras View Post

    Trading is a zero sum game, even a negative sum game. It produces NOTHING of value, no wealth is created like in Stock trading. The net chance in total wealth among traders is zero at the end of the day - the wealth is just SHIFTED from one trader to another!
    By all means honor your conscience, whatever it finally dictates. But I don't believe forex trading is a zero sum game. Please see my previous comments on the matter.

    But If stock trading is okay with you, then consider if stock trading and forex trading is really different. With stock trading, you invest in a company. With forex trading, you invest in a country. In both cases, if you invested wisely, you made money. If poorly, you lose. Is there really a difference?

    Sure, with forex you invest long or short on a currency *pair*, but your aim is to help the countries involved in both pairs, regardless of whether your long or short in it, as countries of overvalued currency benefit if from a correction.

    The benefit of forex trading to the world is not exactly visible to us individuals but it *IS* there. It has to be. If it wasn't there, no profits would be gained by it. Obviously the profits of forex trading ARE much more visible but there's more to it than that.

    Best to you....

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Post Great thread

    Thanks for starting this conversation. It's like deja vu because I just started live trading on Monday, and I was searching online for good donation sites after my first weekly profit. I found two great charity resources:

    Charity Navigator - America's Largest Charity Evaluator | Home - perfect for finding a charity that is well run and helps in the philanthropy type or location of your choosing.

    Home - Modest Needs® - give small donations directly to help low-income individuals in need after reading their story. Every person's cause is researched by a volunteer who does the due dilegence for you, and the individuals often contact you directly to show their gratitude. You can also give anonymously.

    Also, if you are trading your forex account in your IRA, and you're 70.5 or older and taking minimum distributions, you don't have to pay income tax on distributions that go directly to charity (up to $100,000) in 2009. Hopefully that rule will be extended. Just throwing that out there in case your circumstances match:
    New Withdrawal Rules Give IRAs Some Breathing Room -

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Scottsdale AZ
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    Default Excellent!

    My goal is to one day become a "Visionary Philanthropist" .. I got the title from that guy in The Secret, Dr. Michael something ... I thought that was the coolest title ever!

    For the moment I have adoped a child in Mexico through Children International, just one so far, but there will be more & I have some ideas to help troubled teens in this country as well. But I will need a lot of money

    Forex and Christian or spiritual values are very compatible in my opinion. "Love One Another" is all we really need to do .. yet far too many ignore this simple command.

    Trading forex harms no one (unlike stock trading which can harm a company, especially a smaller one) and if it can make people wealthy and enough of them figure out the real path to inner peace is in service to others .. well, I think Jesus, Buddha and all the great spiritual leaders would be applauding our efforts.

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