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  1. #1
    Administrator is offline Administrator
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    Default tradertech.com (Vantage Point Software)

    Click here to read or submit reviews and ratings for tradertech.com (Vantage Point Software) >>

    otherwise use this thread ("Post Reply" button below) to start a LIVE discussion and get responses from our FPA members.

  2. #2
    mrpete is offline Recruit
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    VantagePoint Review go here and read all about neurel ripoff network

  3. #3
    bigwings is offline Recruit
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrpete View Post
    VantagePoint Review go here and read all about neurel ripoff network
    That is just one guy citing one instance of a chart. He appears to be referring to an old version of the software and the buy signal he identifies does not appear to be in accordance with the advice given in the Vantage Point documentation. So actually I am not sure he understands the information and guidance from Vantage Point so I would not listen to him.

    It is true that it is not trivial to understand the Vantage Point information, you need to put a lot of effort into understanding it before you act.

    I am not saying you should go for Vantage Point but I do not think you should rubbish it on the strength of that website. What other evidence do you have for asserting that it is a rip-off?

  4. #4
    imprator is offline Recruit
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    I tried VantagePoint a couple of years ago.

    I bought the Dow Jones module, which they recommended as "a great starting point". When I bought it the salesgirl came up with a "great offer" to include two other modules at a supposedly bargain price. Her boss had at that moment authorised her to offer this bargain to me as I was a new customer. Wow, I must have been a special person! What a privilege! I should have said goodbye there and then, but the "great offer" was only made after they had taken my order and credit card details for the Dow module.

    I somehow managed to resist the "great offer", but took delivery of the Dow module and tried to make money from it. I never reached the stage of trading a real-money account because I found the software to be completely useless. I put considerable time into it, but found no way to make money from it.

    The most important aspects of the software are that it indicates the likely range for the coming day, and the direction of price movement. They claimed an 84% accuracy ratio at the time, and still do I believe. However, the information the software provides is no better than you can do yourself. Look at a chart, note the previous day's range and the direction of trend, then estimate the likely range and direction for the coming day and you will be every bit as accurate as the "neural network" VantagePoint software. Maybe more accurate. Now try to make money from your own estimates. You will meet with the same level of success as you will using VantagePoint - i.e. no success at all.

    VantagePoint sells for a high price, and that acts as an added attraction for many people (including me). If it costs a lot it must be really good, right? No, it isn't.

    Of course, the lack of success might just be down to me, not the software. But I tried hard, and failed, to locate anyone else who was able to make money using VantagePoint. The only people I found had had the same expereience as myself - and discarded the software as worthless.

    Buying this software was an expensive mistake for me. I recommend that no one else make the same mistake.
    Last edited by imprator; 02-25-2008 at 07:31 AM.

  5. #5
    DaveO is offline Private, 1st Class
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    I agree with imprator.

    I could write a very long negative review here but I will resist the temptation. In fact there are a number of reviews right on the main platform here. You can access it from the home page. Some are rather obviously from paid contributors. I wonder who is their paymaster.

    I am a full time daytrader and swing trader of 14 years experience and I am age 63, no babe to this corrupt world. I retired from mainline biz at age 50 having been self employed all my life.

    The whole justification for the very high one time charges made for the various instrument modules sold by VP is the NEURAL linkage.

    How can we determine that there is any neural connection whatsoever ? Without that the software is just a bunch of lagging indicators mainly in the form of moving averages.

    The software is otherwise useless. It doesnt even reach the standard of the most basic freebie charting software. There is no traditional charting funtionality whatsoever. They might have recently added an macd and a stochastic, ha, but I dont know whether even those indicators are adjustable because I didn't buy their latest upgrade. Of course they are claimed to be predictive. Everything on the charting is supposedly predictive.

    Before we become a purchaser we have a couple of things to go on:-

    We have their website information, their publications, their screenshots (Ha), the owners book (ha) and we can make a call to their sales or support (ha).

    The website imo gives no technical information of value at all. It is just a great big sales page and with all the usual testimonials from dubious contributors who are probably in the main novice traders. Ok, so that is no help to us to make a measured judgement.

    The publications available before and after purchase are again far more sales orientated than technical. The owners book is not imo of any value whatsoever to any trader at any level. Instructional manuals are extremely sparse, poorly written and lacking legitimate information required.

    The support department is confusing. All they are interested in is selling you the next module up. If you ask for a referral to an independant user you draw a blank. If you ask any other questions you never get an answer you can feel comfortable about.

    The Sales department is something else ! I have seen it compared in some of the reviews with the lowest used car sales establishments and I feel that is pretty accurate. They are incredibly high pressure. They will telephone you randomly at almost any hour once they have your contact details.

    So, what else do we have to go on before parting with hard earnt cash ? Not a lot I'm afraid.

    I dont beleive they operate any refund policy or trial period. Certainly I was never made aware of any such protection. I think that speaks for itself these days. Most charting packages can be trialled for at least 7 days if not 30 days. Most vendors will offer a refund policy where one time charges are made instead of monthly subscription.

    Soooo, we have no information of legitimate value before making our purchase and no customer protection refund policy. All we have is Louis Mendelsohn's claim that the software is neural and that typical accuracy is 80%, whatever that means.

    Oh, nearly forgot. We have pictures of Mendelsohn's smart headquarters and details of how generous he is with various charities! Personally I would rather have a little information on the neural networking of inter related markets, preferably before purchase but certainly after purchase.

    I have no way of proving it but I suspect this product is a massive con. My only slight doubt is that the company has not been closed down by the regulators yet and I wonder about that.

    There is another facet to all this to think about:-

    The idea of neural networking inter market analysis is on the face of it extremely appealing to swing traders. I use market profile volume analysis to time entries for breakouts and I value monitoring other market internals for confirmation. I originally bought VP thinking it would be much quicker to utilise the predictive software for scanning a large basket of commodities, stocks and/or financials, identify those setting up, and then home in on my market profile charts to optimise entry timing.

    The more I think about neural networking, and I mean a serious effort at achieving validity, the more I conclude that it cannot be made useful. The relationships are so varied and complexed and subject to change that it is probably impossible to develop legitimate algorithms which will last more than a few days.

    I hope anyone who reads this will get something out of it and particularly if they are considering a VP purchase. I have no axe to grind. I just say save your money.

    David.


  6. #6
    Remko is offline Recruit
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    I have used VP for quite a while and would say that it IS worth the relatively large investment and I like it far better than all the other stuff which I have tried. Yes, it is rather costly and no, you can't use it as stand alone. For me it is a good support to my own analysis. For swing traders only, not for short runs.

  7. #7
    TME
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    Default Curious, but useful

    VantagePoint is one of the most baffling bits of financial software I have come across.

    I intially purchased it because I liked the idea of 'intermarket' analysis, and 'leading' moving averages based on neural networks. There are quite a few people who doubt that it provides either. And I can't say for sure that they are wrong, because VP provide no proof of this, though they do have a number of custom indicators (such as neural index and predicted next day low and high)) which I suspect are neural network-derived.

    Now, however, it has become an essential part of my own trading software, but for reasons quite unrelated to those for which I originally bought it. It allows me to download data into Excel along with all the VP indicators, which I have found perform very well (in combination) when you apply data mining analysis (using inexpensive Excel add-ins for the most part) to its various indicators. This often provides a better idea of short-term trend than most other software I have come across.

    Of course, I can't say you wouldn't do as well to use other free data such as provided by Metatrader for example (though you then have to find something to compute your indicators). It's just that VP seems to do quite well, and the more you use it the more useful you find it. Or at least I have.

    It is expensive, but for the better-healed trader I don't think that would be a huge drawback (particularly considering the cost of some of these 'courses' for which you pay thousands to learn some basic stuff you could pick up from an elementary textbook).

    So, I am not really recommending it, unless (a) its particular approach (largely trend following, though more skillful traders may find other ways to use it) suits you, and (b) you are prepared to invest a bit of time and effort in learning how to understand the indicators provided (particularly in combination - which does, in my opinion, provide some very useful insights).

    I recently did an analysis, using things called decision trees (which weed out the most successful indicators on any particular backtest) and found that VP predicted high and low (for next day prices) performed better than any others, including some 'conventional' ones, even in predicting prices five days in advance!

    So, for me it is very useful, but there is one excellent review on this site (DaveO) which points out all the pitfalls with admirable clarity. The shame is that users can't decide for themselves very easily as there is not free trial period, and no money back guarantee.

    I would just like to point out that for those who have a bit of money to spend, and are prepared to make an investment that may not work out for them, then VP may offer something unexpected. It has done so for me, though, as I say, you have to work at it (true of anything, I guess).

  8. #8
    dkami's Avatar
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    Default Vantagepoint program good or bad

    Hi An american man from Vantagepoint rang me trying to sell me this program i would like to know if anyone has heard or has this program and what they think of it he showed me this program and it looked quit good i have never used a program,EA or any thing like this before so any information anyone can give me about this vantagepoint program good or bad will be much apriciated
    i looked on this sight and could not find anything about this program if there is something about this program on this sight could you please point me in the direction

    thanks

  9. #9
    dkami's Avatar
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    Default some signals ahead of time

    ok i thought i would put some trades up here from VP before the first FX open in 2011 so people can see for them self if these trades im about to put up work out in profit for the day or hit my TP in a couple of days before hitting my SL so lets see shall we im not endorsing VP in any way and i myself think it is way overpriced so heres some trades before market opens for the first time in 2011 these are all contrarian trades and are in a down trend on daily chart and are at lows
    GBPUSD neural index is 1 so its saying market will go up predicted high is 1.5692 predicted low is 1.5532 so i will be buying as close to predicted low as i can and my SL will be 1.5420 just under previouse daily candel low TP is 1.5700 ill just put that TP on so people can see if its hit before the SL is ok
    GBPJPY neural index is 1 predicted high 1.2735 predicted low 1.2597 buy as close to predicted low as i can SL 1.2568 TP 1.2800
    EURCHF neural index 1 predicted high 1.2575 predicted low 1.2454 buy as close to predicted low as i can SL 1.2419 TP 1.2650
    GBPCAD neural index 1 predicted high 1.5661 predicted low 1.5493 buy as close to predicted low as i can SL 1.5419 TP 1.5700

    These will be trades i will take if on any of these pairs there is a gap that gaps low at open i will jump in long where it opens if at open there is a gap that gaps higher i will wait until gap is closed then buy on first green candel on H1 chart these will be my entry to go long

    Watch this space i will post results good or bad date is 3/1/11 time 6.09am brisbane time(Australia) FX market has not opened and it took me longer to type this post than it did to get these trade ideas

    ok market opened all pairs gaped lower
    GBPUSD in @ 1.5575
    GBPJPY in @ 1.26488
    EURCHF in @ 1.2479
    GBPCAD in @ 1.54857

    see how they go

    OK heres the results
    First off GBPJPY TP hit +151.2pips(i still have half this trade open as VP hasnt given me a 0 on the neural index closed end of week @ 1.2925)
    EURCHF i was very unlucky on this trade bounced off my SL then went to TP(another 5pips on my SL and all would have been sweet) -60pips
    GBPCAD SL hit -66.7pips
    GBPUSD SL hit -155pips(this pair was the killer it was rangeing the hole week and closed where it opend give or take 10pips)

    so all up -130pips not a good result but should BE once out of GBPJPY or with a little profit(still have half the GBPJPY open)
    Last edited by dkami; 01-07-2011 at 02:29 PM. Reason: update

  10. #10
    EricBubb is offline Private, 1st Class
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    Thumbs down Vantage Point Software for Predicting the Market load of rubish

    I have tested vantage point for predicting the Forex Market.
    It's 40% accurate on which way a Forex Pair is going to move the following day. Based on the Neural Index and the other recommended indicators by Trader Tech.

    Each time I inform Trader Tech of my finding they send me links to a User Tango46. So I set up the Vantage Point as Tango46 states find the currency pair in test which is expected to move in the direction indicated. Guess what it goes in the opposite direction.

    Vantage Point Software is a heap of rubbish.

    Vantage Point claims to be 86% accurate if you use their other indicators as well as the Neural Index. You might as well toss a coin at least that would be 50% accurate. I have found Vantage Point to be 40% accurate when combined with their recommended indicators.

    On one occasion based on the Neural Index Selection 8 currency pairs were selected to make a move the following day. After consulting the other indicators only one currency pair proved suitable.

    The result: - That one currency pair which proved suitable went in the opposite direction and the other seven went in the expected direction. Heap of rubbish.
    :shocked:

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