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4500 Euros and no refund option. Scam or not scam?

Discussion in 'Scam Alerts' started by Scam Investigations Committee, May 8, 2008.

?

Was Woodcrusher scammed by TradeOracle.ch

Poll closed May 22, 2008.
  1. Yes he was scammed.

    53 vote(s)
    82.8%
  2. No he was not scammed.

    11 vote(s)
    17.2%
  1. Scam Investigations Committee

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    EDIT:
    The FPA tries to stand firmly against scam. Now, we have become the victims of scam. We left this poll open to guests so that we could get the maximum amount of votes from our subscribers. It seems that a handful of people decided to vote many times. The site administrator dug through the logs and found that 1 IP address voted 399 times, another voted 127 times, another one voted 74 times, and a fourth one voted 59 times. Our worst offender also voted several dozen times from other IPs in the same Class C block.

    The IP address for Trader12 of TradeOracle voted 9 times.

    There were a handful of multiple Yes votes from single IPs, but well over 90% of the duplicate votes were from people voting No.

    Under the circumstances, the administrators are now stripping out ALL guest votes. Guests have been blocked from voting in this section of the forums. You will have to be logged into an FPA user account in order to vote. We will be watching for any sudden spikes in new accounts who register only to vote.

    No matter what your opinion is, we urge you to vote, but only once!


    Original message:
    We the members of the Scam Investigations Committee of the Forex Peace Army have deliberated on all the evidence available to us and would like your input in the case of Woodcrusher vs. TradeOracle. Woodcrusher's claims are very serious. A Confirmed Scam case is also very serious.


    Woodcrusher spent 4500 euros on the TradeOracle software for MT4. He says it didn't work, and that the owner of TradeOracle refuses to give a refund and has become quite hostile when asked, even threatening to stop supporting the product.

    TradeOracle's website does not offer a money back guarantee.

    Woodcrusher has asked for an official scam finding under our scam definitions, specifically...
    Serious deception in the company's advertising.

    Since this case comes down to competing claims, we are putting it to a vote of our membership. Please read all the evidence, all the comments, ask any questions you may have, then vote.


    Here is what each side has said so far...

    Woodcrusher says that TradeOracle's advertising is deceptive. That it repaints indicators, thus showing great trade entries only after the fact.

    TradeOracle says that Woodcrusher did not follow the instructions and was using the 1 hour timeframe. TradeOracle says the product should be used on longer timeframes.

    Woodcrusher says that he tried the product on longer timeframes and still got bad results. Further, Woodcrusher says that the manual provided with the software does recommend a 1 hour timeframe.

    TradeOracle says that Woodcrusher did not use all the indicators.

    Woodcrusher says that he did use all the indicators when using the software to trade, but turned off the other indicators to highlight serious problems with the trigger indicator arrows in the screenshots he sent to TradeOracle.

    TradeOracle accuses Woodcrusher of hacking their website, but has provided no evidence.

    Woodcrusher says that he did look around the website for the TradeOracle phone number and could not find it. Further, he says when he did contact Tradeoracle about the missing contact phone number, he was told the website had been hacked, somehow removing the number.

    TradeOracle says that Woodcrusher continued to use the software after he said he was no longer using it. This is based on hearing a sound in the background during a phone conversation.

    Woodcrusher says that he had a different indicator set running on his MT4 platform, and that it was this other indicator that made the sound.

    TradeOracle says that Woodcrusher is trying to scam him out of a free copy of the software.

    Woodcrusher has offered to provide a letter countersigned by his attorney stating that all copies of the software and any related files will be destroyed if a refund is offered.

    Tradeoracle refuses to consider a refund.


    Our investigator who handled this case, Lt. Gerard, would like the following information to be included...

    TradeOracle took quite some time to respond to emails. It often took several emails to get any response. The reasons given were a lengthy vacation and being busy dealing with customers. Woodcrusher has never taken more than a couple of days to reply to any questions in the investigation. Lt. Gerard feels that TradeOracle's delays in response border on deliberately stalling our Scam Resolution process.

    TradeOracle made extremely aggressive forum postings and replies on the TradeOracle review page. The most recent review had to be edited by the review moderation team to bring it's content down to an acceptable level.

    Unless TradeOracle comes with its own custom sounds, Woodcrusher's claim that the owner of TradeOracle heard a different indicator signal is very believable. Also, unless a refund is given, WoodCrusher has every right to continue to test the product to see if it can be made to work.


    Woodcrusher's original complaint and some of TradeOracle's responses are here....
    http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/forex-forum/scam-alerts-folder/1896-tradeoracle-ch.html

    This poll will remain open for 2 weeks.
     
    #1 Scam Investigations Committee, May 8, 2008
    Last edited: May 13, 2008
  2. bobzilla

    bobzilla Recruit

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    i've got a new system for him and it will save him alot of money over the years. it only costs 2250 euros. after the payment is received by the fpa[ for their 20% processing fee before forwarding the rest to me], read these simple words over and over,walk away from the computer, do not touch the computer, do not trade over the phone. its amazing how people will spend thousands of dollars[euros] for some fancy lights and sounds. if any automated system was any good, why would they bother selling it. the whole concept is scammish. but, and i'm sorry woody, but any one who pays for the product derserves what they get. bobzilla
     
  3. oo7_ts

    oo7_ts Recruit

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    Just reading through TradeOricles web site gives me the feeling of a scam. Most of the feedback or reviews are from individuals who have traded the system for less than a week or even one day. I would think if you were legitimate you would have good feedback from a longer time frame. The site itself is also very unprofessional. Also the staff line up that it boasts seems a bit overkill for someone who has developed one piece of software and has nothing else to offer. I definitely rated this one a scam, or at the very least I would never ever pay for anything they offer.
     
  4. PeteR

    PeteR Recruit

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    Sam is as Scam Does

    Most of these Scam systems follow a similar vein. When you become frustrated with their systems because they don't produce, they call you and offer to provide you with a personal coach for about $10,000.
    Nice racket. I never got my money back either, and I didn't fall for the personal coach, but have developed my own system which is far superior.
    I figured I paid tuition to learn another of "those" lessons.
    The "telling" fact was that the trainers themselves didn't use the principle "Come-On" program, but used their own derivations of it--which they charge for.
     
  5. Rik

    Rik Recruit

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    He may be lucky, if it had appeared to work, he may have lost more money using it!

    I'd move on.
     
  6. sinexhomebiz

    sinexhomebiz Recruit

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    It's on 2 sided

    One part of me is saying that he should not have bought a software from the website in the initial stage since there's no money Back guarantee i the website and the second thing is that may be he needs to follow the instruction of the software to the letter.
    i don't have any experience with this software. But i don't expect any software to be cost as this without doing the work.
     
  7. trader12

    trader12 TradeOracle Owner, Confirmed Scammer

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    Biased Update

    Well thanks very much for your update, its not fair the way you are putting things here,either you omit or fail to say things the way they are, firtsly you did not provide the proof you where giving that woodcrusher did not follow instruction,by posting the screen shot he was trading with,or even talk about it here.for all to see.Instead you handpicked what will appease your audience.We can see that you are taking sides,it does not matter what you think,you can as well call us scam straight away....we believe you honestly dont represent what this forum stands for,that is getting facts.
    For does who bought our product and made reviews here,thanks so much for your kind honest reviews
    Kindly look at th screen shot Wood crusher(known as Dominik Hofmann) and go to our website ans see if he did the right thing as in following instructions.pls compare and contrast the evidence.
     

    Attached Files:

    #7 trader12, May 8, 2008
    Last edited: May 8, 2008
  8. eam159

    eam159 Recruit

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    4500 euros is a lot to pay for software. He should have made sure there was a refund policy in place first. Perhaps a lawyer with a notarized statement verifying the software was removed may result in a refund. The lack of good customer service makes me lean toward it being a scamlike business. From what I see, the customer didn't do anything to antagonize the seller.
     
  9. sleuth

    sleuth Recruit

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    Just like when choosing a dealer...geography and legal jurisdiction conciderations are important when concidering parting with a chunk of cash. Concider worst case scenario: ultimately would you want to fly over, learn a foreign language and have to find a local lawyer? It is called part of due diligence.

    I guess their testimonial page is most revealing. TradeOracle is a master psychologist. Has it occured to Woodcrusher to ask why anyone would offer such a successully trading software to the public rather than keep it private, get some funding and make a killing from the market ? TradeOracle knows there is one born every minute, if he deos not believe he needs to look in the mirror.

    I would suggest to Woodcrusher to write-off his $4,500 as tuitoin fee to the School of Hard Knocks and get on in life in some other field, as Darell Shaffer,
    Minneapolis (try contacting him ?) so generously suggests.

    and Yes he was scammed.
     
  10. sinexhomebiz

    sinexhomebiz Recruit

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    Yes! you are right man.
     

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