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Problem 4500 Euros and no refund option. Scam or not scam?

I am having an issue with a company
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good free indicator

Of course I don't know all the details of there system. However I do notice on the TradeOracle.ch website, in the screenshots, that the indicator drawing the lines to the high and low is freely available on the net, it is an adaptation of the ZigZag indicator that is available in MT4 as default. It looks like these guys snarfed the code and joined it with some other freely available scripts to create there system. Of course there is still value in assembling various indicators into a cohesive whole to produce a unique system, naturally modern info economies are built on the reassemblage of modular component tools into more complex systems.

That many euros is alot for a patchwork of freebies, however I have used systems which repaint indicator bars and it is unnerving. The typical monday morning quarterback, everything looks perfect on the chart, until you are in real time. Realtime is the key, alot of indicators suffer this flaw, does the MA cross one tick and then back again the next, or do you wait for a candle close instead...what if you are using 5 min candles or 15, what about tick chart candles, what if your MT4 server time is a sec different from another.

I also paid for some systems when I started trading, luckily not ones costing 4k, and they were no better than systems you can read about on the internet. Of course the expensive ones made them appear that they were even better, but after attending a sales conference on Advance GET for ESignal ($3000) and being told by the sales rep in his proudest voice that the system had a 55-60% win-to-loss ratio did I come to the conclusion that the system I found on forexfactory for free with 80% win ratio was better. After that is was all down to money management. Of course this wasn't as quick as laying down 4k for a system, I had to surf thru tsunamis of websites to find things and spend days testing and learning. Value is relative, ever get a free upgrade to business class.

On the other side, I know that alot of work on systems is bought and then shared on the internet using file sharing apps like BitTorrent, complex neural network trading software available at places like demonoid.com and some authors would like to protect their creations.

Lastly if there is no guarentee there is no guarentee. If someone spent 4.5k euros without checking that, I think they probably were throwing around there money a bit impudiently and probably deserve a lesson. Lesson learnt with dealing with Forex scams is just as important as lesson learnt trading. Frankly there is so much Trading Marketing that I automatically delete it to the rubbish trash, it makes life so much more pleasant not to have to read those huge webpages which manipulate and take advantage of your desires to sell you some trading system or education, but the crap just keeps on coming....truely FX and affliate marketing is a marriage made in hell.
 
Vote..... --> SCAM

It would be useful to see the screen shot evidence or actually evaluate the software to help decide if this software is a scam. but as a MT4 programmer myself i do know that the indicators often look real nice a few bars later while in fact are hard to judge and changing in real time. but this is also part of the quality of the programming.

My impression is that a programmer came up with some nice looking algorithms to make indicators which look good in many cases (especially in retrospect). I've got many myself. He thinks he has the holy grail and rushes to sell it to the world relatively unproven. Running a company and collecting big money for these little programs is another level and these guys do not appear to be reputable or up to the task. The web site advertising is definately over the top without anything to back it up.

My guess is that there are indeed some serious issues with the indicators repainting differently making it hard to use real time. I think Tradeoracle should provide support, explanation, and training if needed to get the new user running with this expensive software or provide a refund. and certainly be very open to complaints/evidence of the software not functioning correctly, a quality software company should investigate these issues to make the software better and keep happy customers/references.

Tradeoracle customer support and treatment of their customers has triggered this complaint, their response to personally attack the customer is the sign of a very lame (if not scam) company no matter how good the software system.

My vote is that this is indeed a 'scam' company due to their pathetic customer service and attitude. Stay away.

-smoothy
 
The simple fact that they won't give a refund makes this a scam. No other information is needed for me. Any respectable company will stand behind their product and offer a refund for those who want it. A company that doesn't offer a refund tells me that either too many people want a refund and they have stopped offering refunds because they are loosing too much money or they have something to hide. They are nothing more than con artists hiding behind a web page.
 
Well thanks very much for your update, its not fair the way you are putting things here,either you omit or fail to say things the way they are, firtsly you did not provide the proof you where giving that woodcrusher did not follow instruction,by posting the screen shot he was trading with,or even talk about it here.for all to see.Instead you handpicked what will appease your audience.We can see that you are taking sides,it does not matter what you think,you can as well call us scam straight away....we believe you honestly dont represent what this forum stands for,that is getting facts.
For does who bought our product and made reviews here,thanks so much for your kind honesty.

That issue was covered in this part of the facts laid out.

TradeOracle says that Woodcrusher did not follow the instructions and was using the 1 hour timeframe. TradeOracle says the product should be used on longer timeframes.

Woodcrusher says that he tried the product on longer timeframes and still got bad results. Further, Woodcrusher says that the manual provided with the software does recommend a 1 hour timeframe.

TradeOracle says that Woodcrusher did not use all the indicators.

Woodcrusher says that he did use all the indicators when using the software to trade, but turned off the other indicators to highlight serious problems with the trigger indicator arrows in the screenshots he sent to TradeOracle.

The screenshots are 1 hour time frame and don't show all the indicators. Woodcrusher explained that the screenshots he sent to you and that you sent back to our investigator as evidence deliberately had some indicators turned off to highlight the problems with the trigger indicators. He also says that the manual does mention that your system is usable on the 1 hour timeframe.
 
Woodcrusher, you need to put up the indicators for us to review on your claim that the indicators does not work.
 
Misleading on hype-peddling con-artist of newbies wanting to fulfill dreams and goals

I think that since the website is very thin on customer support via contact info., the warning flags are in the breeze.

Running a business mean that your customer service dept. is a key part in the survival of an ongoing business. This includes covering customer service...regardless of vacations schedules, illness..etc.

If the business really wanted to be consumer friendly, they would not keep setting up hurdles and excuses (alert sounds heard over the telephone).
IT DOESN'T !!

The whole website, MT4 EA dream machine is a scam from the beginning, middle and end.

Everything is aimed at scoring an easy mark...PERIOD !

Consider this similar to a fast talking tele-marketer getting on the line and pushing their Bull S__t.

Try the FTC [(Federal Trade Comm.) Interstate Fraud via Internet], Post Office (mail fraud), States Atty General (consumer fraud and practices), BBB's and Civil lawsuit.
Start playing hard ball...they are just stalling.

Funding was in Euro's...therefore you should contact any Govt. or consumer group for assistance...PUBLICTY Shine that LIGHT

Consider it almost like a phanzie scheme...except they are not even taking care of the 1st "marks" while building "false dreams" to future "marks" .
 
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The old 4500 Euro magic box. Unfortunately the business of trading needs to be learned and perfected, not bought over the internet. The website looks like it was constructed from a template, and does not seem to go into any great detail on how the software works. Overall it did not appear very professional to me. Without some sort of guarantee, due diligence would tell me to stay away from the magic box, and to invest the money in some reputable training and mentorship. I know it's hard to swallow, but use this loss as a lesson. Systems come and go, but a well rounded trader can make it in any market. Good luck!
 
3x proof of the scam

(1)
The TradeOracle website infers a refund policy on their page:
http://tradeoracle.ch/products.htm

(quote)
"
TradeOracle Pro is Developed specifically for you if :
<other text deleted>
* You are ready to try a winning system at no risk?
"
(end quote)

How can you try the system without risk unless you are on a demo account,
AND THEY HAVE A MONEY BACK REFUND POLICY. This should be enough to prove
deceptive marketing practices in court. FPA should print hardcopies of
the website if they have not already done so.

(2)
The TradeOracle claims that their website was hacked are bogus.
No real hacker would delete only the phone number and leave the rest of the
site intact. That just doesn't fit with what is generally known about hackers.
That is also why they have no proof that Woodcrusher did any hacking; there was none.

(3)
Woodcrusher did in fact use the software correctly if the manual recommends
the 1-hour time frame. TradeOracle's claim that he did not follow instructions
is clearly false. Perhaps their software simply does not work? Woodcrusher should run
a video of the software in use. Camtasia, et al. would be perfect to show that the charts
repaint after the fact.


Perhaps there is a SFS/FPA member who is a Swiss attorney or knows one?
Some follow-up in the local jurisdiction might shake a refund loose for Woodcrusher.

Perhaps the software could get "accidentally" posted to a public site where it could be decompiled
and tested? If they don't issue a refund, maybe it should be done on purpose! After all, screw unto
others.....as they have screwed you.
 
Scam or No Scam

I sympathize with Woodcrusher's loss and I appreciate his bringing the matter to the attention of forum members. I think we have all been burned along the way in our quest for a way to draw money out of the forex. If the product is a scam, by bringing it to the attention of this forum Woodcrusher will have cost the seller thousands of dollars, because those of us who have the money and are desperate to succeed in trading won't be buying that particular product. I do know that if you paid for the product with PayPal, you can initiate a dispute and from what I have heard the complainant almost always wins.

Good luck,

greenwood9146
 
Well somethin similarhappened to m while ago (of course I paid 200 EUR for a software) The funny thing was that they had a refund policy but I never was able to contact them (no phone number) and no reply to my emails.
In this case if they dont have refund policy on their website then legally this is not scam they have sold a rubbish for a price and it always happens in commercail world. Morally they are scammers and i is obvious even by their website the way they talk and absence of a refund but well I suppose ligal part is the one you should rely on. We must do whatever we can to prevent this Oracle thing to continue by informing people of what happened but I am not sure ligally ther would be a solution to get a refund.
 
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