ADS Securities - retroactive trading conditions change

L_Invest

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I have opened an account in ADS SECURITIES due to their very good reputation (often at CNBC), no negative reviews, their large initial capital (400 milion $$$) and good trading conditions. After a while after opening of my account I have noticed that ADS offers positive swap rates both sides on some financial instruments. I have decided to play some Swap Trading. I have made first trades on AUDCAD on 30/01/2013. As my account was growing up I was adding some positions and reinvested my profits. I was trading on this pair till 29/04/2013 (so it was 90 days from the first position on audcad). I have closed my trades because the swap rates where changed to 4.95 point for Long and -6.82 point for Short so trading this pair hedge was no longer profitable. The swap rates that was previously offered was 3.85 Long and 8.06 Short.

From 29/04/2013 I have traded on other currency pairs. On 16/05/2013 I have sent a withdrawal form request for part of the profit. On 17/05/2013 I have received an email from Chief Dealer that my withdrawal will not be processed, that the terms and conditions offered on AUDCAD where wrong, all my withdrawals will be blocked and the account after the adjustment can go to a deficit. I have wrote back on 19/05/2013 that I do not agree to any retroactive changes of trading conditions, that they offered those Swap Rates for over half a year and If I have known that the conditions are different from that presented I would not have made a decision to trade this currency pair. I haven't received any answer to this email.

20/05/2013 on my account appeared order named "AUDCAD Swap Correction" in the amount of -45,257 $$$ and in a result my account came in a deficit. After about an hour after this correction order was deleted, all the traces where gone (besides my screenshots), and my account came back to its previous balance and I could normally trade on it. If I had my platform logout I wouldn't even know about it.

On 22/05/2013 the swap correction order appeared in my account once again and I received another email from Chief Dealer that the correction was made. He haven't referred in any way to arguments from my email why they shouldn't make it. He wrote only that according to market practice they are changing the AUDCAD conditions and they made the correction like the mistake in swap points never happened.

In that case, why in their Terms of Business they are writing that before making a trade You have to check the conditions offered with the platform and accepted them If they can change those conditions later at any time retroactively. In my view, in accordance with market practice, the errors caused by the fault of the broker should be resolved so that the client will not suffer from this any loss. In the regulations ADS record that the error due to their gross negligence they bear full responsibility for it. For me, this is an obvious result of such negligence, because how else can be called to offer instruments for at least six months that contain errors. If it wasn't glaring negligence I think it was a deliberate action to take deposits and "adjust" account if the customer would trade on any pair with a "trap".

I have evidence that positive swap rates where showed on several other financial instruments like: SGDJPY, XAGAUD,XAGINR, XAGEUR, XAUAUD, XAUEUR, XAUINR, USDRUB, USDTWD, USDPHP, USDMYR, USDKRW, USDNY, USDINR. So 19 % of their instruments had errors ??? I don't know what it was like on other pairs because I wasn't monitoring it all the time. For such a large company that has received the title of "Most Trusted Broker" and their employees are very often at CNBC, either their hire incompetent team that are setting terms and conditions, or it is their deliberate action. All in all, if they make profits on their mistakes why should they take care to don't make them.

After my email where I wrote that I won't leave this case and wrote about other pairs that have positive swap rates they also changed the conditions there. So far, on a currency pair that I haven't mention in that email the swap rates are still very favorable, which may cause in the future more "adjustments" for clients that will make trades there.
In my case, ADS have resolved it the way that they earned on their mistake and I have lost my initial deposit.

In addition, the adjustment was made unfairly. In the morning on 29/04/2013 it was (3.85 Long 8.06 Short), in the afternoon I noticed that they changed it to 4.95 Long and -6.82Short. So we can assume that those points should also be valid thru the time that I was investing because there were no interest rates changes thru this period. If they would like to adjust it "fair" they should add additional points for Long and take less money for Short positions. However, they preferred maximum favorably for them swap short at -8.06 !

They took from me profit of 22,628 $ and additionally charge me with 22,628 $ and booked on my account a loss of -45,257 $$$ (forty two thousands and two hundred fifty seven dollars ) an in the result I have a negative balance on my account.

In addition, the Chief Dealer wrote me in the email that the adjustment is made the way that this swap error never appeared. Seriously ??? If I were charged negative swap rates from the first day of my trading, after certain time my account would fall to 50% stop out level. So I would save half of my deposit !!! Now I just lost all of my deposit and in addition I have a negative balance there.

In their Terms of Buisness they are also writing (15.5 Confirmations, page 12 of Terms of Buisness) "............Account information will include trade confirmations with ticket numbers, purchase and sale rates, used Margin, amount available for Margin trading, statements of profits and losses, as well as current open or pending positions and any other information as required by Applicable Regulations. Confirmations shall, in the absence of manifest error, be conclusive and binding on you, unless 15 we notify you of an error in the confirmation in writing within three (3) Business Days of dispatch to you."

As a result I was sure that if any mistake would occur in calculating the swap points I would be notified within 3 working days about it and If not all the gains shown in the daily reports and on the platform are final and binding ! In addition on 11/03/2013 I have made a small withdrawal (after 41 days from the first trade on AUDCAD) and there was no problem with it.

On 23/05/2013 I have re-sent to the Chief Dealer and six other employees of ADS an email with my arguments and a solution that If there where errors on instruments that I have traded, I can ultimately agree to delete all positions held on AUDCAD. I haven't received any response for that.

29/05/2013 I have sent another email and also no answer.

Till now, despite my attempts to contact them I haven't get any response and my account is still on negative balance.

If the ADS will not shortly enter into negotiations thru the FPA court my next step will be to lodge a Complaint to their regulator (Central Bank of the U.A.E.) and to inform public opinion that ADS will take advantage even on their own "mistakes".


I`m kindly asking all the FPA members for help and advice how can I receive my money back
 

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Positive swap on both sides HAS to be an error.

Still, for a broker to accidentally not notice this for months indicates a serious issue with the competence and/or honesty of the broker.

Send an email to every address you have for them. Ask them to please join this thread.
 
Pharaoh - thanks for taking part in the discussion.

If this error persisted for so long time it means that this currency and the others with mistakes should be practically excluded from Trading, otherwise ADS is exposing their customers to unexpected losses (they even doesn't know what will be the negative rate charged after a while), and certainly there are people who prefer trading American / Tokyo session and hold their positions at least for few hours and catch up for rollover.
Earlier my knowledge of counting swaps was small. On forums I had been reading about the different styles of trading, also that you can make profits from swaps.

Now, after this incident I started to read a lot in this topic, and I know that a positive swaps both ways don't occur too often but are possible in some situations - like promotions, example LiqidMarket and their actual offer . The swap points are determined by the broker, as well as the spreads so they can set them as they want. I found on forexfactory that ADS offered zero spread some time ago for the XAGUSD http://www.forexfactory.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1010723&d=1343731157 to attract new investors. Unless that also was a mistake and people who took trades with that "promotion" also have their accounts "adjusted". So I decided that ADS just offers such good conditions for customers (perhaps an interest to attract customers trading on this currency). On the other hand, I wonder if all accounts was adjusted like my or just it was "promotion" for selected.

When it comes to inviting them to discuss, I chose to put the case in the FPA Court so I`ll wait for FPA to officially invited them to take part in the discussion. In addition the currency pair that I wrote yesterday about that still offers favorable swap conditions was today corrected so I think that ADS employees already know about this thread or maybe is only a coincidence.
 
This is going to be a very difficult one to decide.

One the one hand, they did send statements for an excessive period and, by their own rules, those became set in stone after a certain time period.

On the other hand, positive swap in both directions is an obvious error, unless it is specifically tied into some sort of promotion. They can easily claim that you deliberately were exploiting the error.
 
They can easily claim that you deliberately were exploiting the error.

What do you think the foundation of trading is? When you think something is Overvalued you sell it and when you think it's undervalued you buy it. All you can do is trade the prices you are given. They are either so incompetent (more than likely the case) and have a capuchin monkey as their risk manager or they were baiting traders into this trade to obfuscate their deposits. Would it be asking too much to run a simple swap arb algo? If anything, the risk manager should pay this out of his salary or lose his job (if they even have a risk manager). How stooooopid can you be?!?! "Oooo look at he red balloooon ith tho coolzzzz"

I think the bigger story here is Metaquotes. They turn a blind eye to brokerages altering trader's statements. If you don't already see MT4 as a toy, this should be the final nail in the coffin for you.
 
The foundation of trading is not to exploit an obvious error.

The ability to edit statements is a separate issue from this one. If statements could not be edited, they certainly could be amended/corrected. If you don't think so, you'll change your view the moment an error happens that is not in your favor.

Any trader with any experience would know that positive swap in both directions is 100% impossible in the forex market.

The real questions remaining are whether or not this error was deliberately used to lure in traders or whether the continuation of the error over time would meet the definition of gross negligence.
 
They have finally wrote me back ! But they wrote that it was a manifest error and ADSS stands by its previous decision regarding my account. They havent
wrote anything about their own fault and their gross negligence (because they would be liable for this error then due to 25.3 paragraph in their terms of
business).

I have invited them to scam alerts thread and ask them to answer questions:

-explain how this error could persist for such long period of time ?
-How can they book deposits from third party ? (anty money laundring regulations break)
-Why they want to make profits on their own mistakes ?
-If this situation isn't gross negligence in their opinion what situation would it be ?
 
The foundation of trading is not to exploit an obvious error.

The ability to edit statements is a separate issue from this one. If statements could not be edited, they certainly could be amended/corrected. If you don't think so, you'll change your view the moment an error happens that is not in your favor.

Any trader with any experience would know that positive swap in both directions is 100% impossible in the forex market.

The real questions remaining are whether or not this error was deliberately used to lure in traders or whether the continuation of the error over time would meet the definition of gross negligence.

hi pharaoh

while i deeply respect all the work you put in and the great efforts you go through to help clients. i must say that i cant quite agree with this point of the foundation of trading for two reasons. firstly one of the greatest famous billionares makes profit from high frequency trading which is basically an error in price (call it arbitrage) as it guarantees you a profit and guarantees your counterparty a loss, however small. but that is part of the foundation of trading. secondly 99% of brokers are bucket shops similar to casinos. now with a casion i have no issue guaranteeing myself a profit from an obvious mistake on their side due to negligence. after all they are out to do whatever they can to make sure my money winds up in their pockets so i feel there is nothing wrong if i keep to their terms and do the same but in reverse, cause their money to end up in my pocket. the same is now with most forex brokers who do a b book and will do their utmost to make sure that my money ends up in their pocket. they even mostly all advertise with like 50% bonuses. now if they only made money on the comission per trade they would never offer those bonuses just like cme does not offer them. but instead they make on my losses plus overnight financing. the brokers would be more than happy if i missed a term and condition which would allow them to gain even more on me. so why should i feel any different having an edge on the broker if i follow their terms.
even look at fxcm who started off shodily by being a market maker but after generating enough money through dodgy practices and making money on their customers losses, plus after some fines from regulators they switched to non dealing. now after the chf debacle they are going to try and collect negative balances which is against their terms. even look at banks who are meant to be credible. they are more than happy to make money off their clients by using their small print and slapping overdraft fees and other fees ect. just look at all the ppi claims in the uk and the libor rigging scandal which is taking advantange of the customer.

so yes if i could get a zero credit card and put the excess in a savings account and earn a guaranteed income against the banks losses i am more than happy. and the same goes for forex brokers. if they offer me an islamic account even when i tell them that i am not islamic and i hedge the trades that is fine by me, and i feel that the way the brokers act to clients, yes it is part of the foundation of trading in todays world.

but once again pharaoh i think you are a great person doing a tremendous amount of work for the forex community.

all best
 
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