Would you have expected all this this from an FCA regulated firm?
Yes. Regulated fx firms can be some of the worst. Because they can fool more people with the illusion of regulatory protection. The company just has to be a bit sneakier about it. Offshore broker can just be silly with your execution and/or just walk away with your cash.
Also I held open positions with loss. They cannot be closed in an instance, without having to swallow losses unwillingly. I made proposals to them to transfer me to another broker which they refused. I asked them for more time, which they also refused.
Mt4 really made a whole class of retail traders that do not understand basic accounting. Netting mode is the standard accounting method everywhere.
Live equity + margin requirements are the only thing that matters. The account balance number means nothing. So
only the equity gains/losses shown in the account are real, especially trading long term. short term (day trading) you would see the account balance be more in sync with equity because you are closing positions constantly.
@compu-forex is correct in this case.
am only trying to warn you aout these malpractices from Tickmill. Instead I feel interrogated and having to defend myself against some stranger who makes all kinds of assumptions about me. I do not have an uncontrollable, compulsive gambling trigger.
You judge me just because this happened to me and make negative assumptions about me. You do not even know me! I AM JUST TRYING TO WARN unexperiened traders this can happen to them.
FPA is more than just a rant board. We try to bring companies and traders together to resolve disputes.
We encourage victims to submit evidence to support their claims. And the community is free to evaluate the evidence and offer their analysis on it. You might be making an assumption that since most companies do scam their clients in some form that FPA members will automatically assume the victim's behavior is without error. But in some cases, the trader can also equally be at fault or could have taken some steps to mitigate loss.
I already acknowledged that TickMill likely did not process deposit intentionally to trigger a stop out. Based on the UK FOS finding + my understanding of their business model.
In regards to the victim compensation, I am not defending the actions of TickMill and mostly agree with the ombudsman's decision. This just reiterates the importance of
studying a broker's business model and how they make profits from their clients. This alone might have prevented 95% of heartache the OP experienced.
[fos]...Information on a total of 12 payment processing problems Miss L says she faced between May 2018 and March 2020 (including those of 4 March 2020 and the problem of 8 March 2020 she has complained about). In response to these problems, and as part of its reply to Miss L’s complaint about the 8 March problem, Tickmill said....
[FoS]...Correspondence from Miss L’s bank/card company confirming that after she submitted the payment on 8 March Tickmill had to make an authorization request, but no such request was made so the transaction could not be completed....[snip]
[fos]...The investigator’s second reason was that the card company had confirmed it did not decline the transaction and that Tickmill did not send an authorization request....[snip]
The next reason given by the investigator was that there is screenshot evidence showing that the [225 eur] payment was ‘pending’ and that this matched the other examples in which payments remained pending for a delayed period. In response, Tickmill said all unsuccessful deposit attempts are noted as pending on its system, in order to reflect that there has been a deposit attempt.....
[snip]
....[fos investigator] highlighting that the [225 eur] payment remained ‘pending’ on its [TickMill's] system up to 22 March 2020 and its status does not appear to have changed to ‘failed’ until 16 May 2020; that evidence from the bank/card company was reliable; and that there was a lack of evidence that there was an error by Miss L or by the PSP in the process....
...The system clearly applies a distinction between payments that are pending and those that failed – hence the different respective status categories for either – and I do not find it credible that the word ‘pending’ would have been used to describe ‘all’ unsuccessful payments. Surely the word ‘failed’ would have applied in this respect, otherwise it begs the question – when would it have applied?
I would even argue that TickMill
intentionally has their funding workflow setup so that they could trip up clients as needed. So their payment approval workflow was intentionally setup in a way that was ambiguous so that if a client questioned, or if they were investigated formally, they could just say the payment "failed" and it would appear innocent. That conclusion is based on my knowledge of their business model of how they profit from clients + what other people who run brokerages have admitted to me about parts of their workflow + the FOS investigator's own findings.
And i accept you are fortunate the FOS caught the tricks TickMill was doing and was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Actually I'm impressed the FOS investigator even considered the payment was not properly processed.
I also accept that traders have some responsibility to mitigate loss. So even with all of the losses and hostile behavior of TickMill since before the stopout (10+ instances according to FoS , after being fully stopped out and in a middle of a legal dispute for losses), you proceeded to reopen positions and trade more???????????? At the same brokerage that you are simultaneously having all this drama with over literally 2 year period since the 44k eur loss occurred??
What were you hoping to accomplish by continuing to trade with a broker that openly mishandled your account funding?
How would you know their payment system problems were resolved? As the exact same problem could occur again (it occurred over 10 times already, one of which "caused" the early stop out).
In regards to the victim compensation, I am not defending the actions of TickMill and mostly agree with the ombudsman's decision. This just reiterates the importance of
studying a broker's business model and how they make profits from their clients. This alone might have prevented 95% of heartache the OP experienced.
But i was thinking to myself about how strange that your account(s) was only 225 eur away from margin call/stop out. And that when the stop was hit less than 24 hours from the 225 eur funding attempt (08 March 2020), you had 44k eur loss. The stop outs occurred over a 5 minute period .
[fos]...Account activity evidence showing that other than around two close-outs between 04:46 hours and 04:47 hours on 9 March, the rest of the close-outs in Miss L’s account on this date happened over around a minute between 04:49 hours and 04:50 hours.
Which means that you reached the breaking point of margin on your account near that time anyways.
And you also claim that you are a position trader, so you hold positions for several weeks/months.
However like I said in my review, I won the complaint but them deliberately closing all my open trades for me, without my consent! casued me even more losses. As I am not a day trader, but hold open positions for a long time.
So while I don't have the account history, i did my best to mathematically reconstruct the account open positions at the time. So I made some assumptions about the state of the account:
-> you had an
average of 9.0 fx lots open at any given time, You may have opened and closed trades several times in between, but this is a simplified estimation.
-> you had at least
-400 pips in negative drawdown.
-> You have 1:30 leverage on the account. (1:20 for gold)
-> The account margin stop out level is 50%
-> And off course the stop out to where you had 44k EUR in losses.
So the
-> Total starting equity and or redeposits were likely in excess of
66.5k EUR before you began to open positions that were stopped out. (
83k eur for gold/fx minor pairs and 1:20 leverage)
Of course this is just estimates. When I have the full track record, a more precise analysis can be made.
If they did not hold a grudge for "loosing" after six months refusing to comply and out of spite forcing even more losses upon me, there would be no second case!
As I stated earlier, Tickmill gave you at least 2 weeks notice that they were discontinuing services to you. They don't need a reason. They just determined not to continue doing business with you. Now if you can show the FOS that cfd brokers are supposed to instead give you more time, then maybe you can win some restitution on that technicality.
But the 225 EUR question from me:
Why you would want to stay with a company that treated you so poorly??....is beyond me. You could have closed and reopened positions at a new brokerage. Even as a long-term position trader, at most you would lose the extra commissions paid to reopen all positions and whatever pips movement between the withdrawal of funds from tickmill to the deposit at the new broker. This is simple arithmetic.
** As I read now you are really desperately trying to prevent me from another case for the second time now ! **
and you disclose information a regular reader would not be able to know -- so STOP FAKING - Dear Tickmill EMPLOYEE !! (probably legal)
I am certainly not TickMill employee.
And there is nothing wrong with exercising your rights to complain to the UK FOS. Perhaps there is some FCA rule that TickMill was supposed to provide more time to terminate relationship with clients if they have open positions. And if they are willing to award you more funds, then so be it.
But wasn't it easier and less stressful to simply refrain from trading with the company? If tickmill was so bad, why did you continue trading with them!??! Why are we opening positions with them? Especially after a 44k loss that they were disputing. It's been 2 years since that incident has occurred. Why would you continue opening new positions? I think everyone reading this would like to hear your rationale for this.
You judge me just because this happened to me and make negative assumptions about me. You do not even know me! I AM JUST TRYING TO WARN unexperiened traders this can happen to them.
I can only judge your behavior on the forum and the evidence you present. Are we allowed to judge the evidence and ask questions?
So for the sake of full transparency, are you willing to upload a complete history statement?
Again, here is the link to properly generate this:
Estimated read time: 12-15 min. Estimated money and stress savings: your original deposits + profits - withdrawals. One of the most important pieces of evidence to maintain is the full account trade history. This history includes rows of trades such that each row has the order/ticket...
www.forexpeacearmy.com
Follow the video examples exactly, and you should get the complete history and attach the zip file here. It is not difficult if you follow the steps carefully; pause the video if needed.
And if your account is locked out for some reason, you should at least have the account statements submitted for the FOS investigation. And the daily confirmation email for July 1st, 2022 when TickMill closed your trades.
but once they lost money, they wanted u to make mistake so that they can recollect all money from u and thats why they allowed u to trade until their reimburse amount achieved and then made the case of closing by terminating business relationship with u which they can do after the first incident but as i told they had the intention to recollect money from u! so they waited for it! had u been little more experienced, u wud not have fallen in their trap! this later case they made very much carefully! so, i don't , u can win this because this time knowingly they did it with understanding if u go for legal settlement whether they cud win! choice is urs! and pl don't be personal , i am nobody for u or for tickmill, take all conversation as ur feedback and input for ur future! bye
