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BROKER TRADING POINT: Issues with swap payments. - RESOLVED

Discussion in 'Scam Alerts' started by RahmanSL, Mar 12, 2012.

  1. RahmanSL

    RahmanSL Major

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    As I am about to post this, I can almost hear the sniggering and exclamation about to begin: “WHAT! You managed to get scammed by a bucketshop broker too??

    Well, old Felix (in his own admission post sometime back) got scammed with a telephone sms from what he though was a lady friend. So, I am no different, though in a different situation and in one which I totally don’t expect ‘cause I have never ever read or come across such a case.
    Common scams normally involve bucketshop brokers not paying client’s profits/deposits, unfair T&C, and other cases which we read just about everyday here at the FPA and elsewhere.

    My case with Trading Point (Trading Account No. 32575 opened 29-Feb-2012-Deposited: USD509.71 + USD10.29 refund of Moneybookers charges Total=USD520 and 20% none withdrawable “welcome bonus” usd104) is a bit different and it involved selective crediting of positive swaps and immediate debit of all negative swaps upon rollover overnight positions. It’s a small & quiet scamming strategy and apparently targeting the unwary and small account traders.

    In a nutshell, Trading Point scamming strategy is to credit small positive swaps, but not for the bigger positive swaps (see screenshots).
    In the event traders closed out the positions, which should have positive swaps but which none were credited, these positions are ignored and Trading Point either pocketed or saved on the swaps.
    BEHOLD! THIS IS THE NEW BROKER’S SCAMMING STRATEGY IN TOWN!

    When a client makes a complaint to Trading Point Support about none crediting of positive swaps for some trades, their Support would e-mail back and (I would supposed) say/were instructed to say the reason no positive swaps were credited is because these positions were closed on the same day even though a simple check on “Account History” would very easily show that to be untrue.
    And, in my case, some of those positions, which should have been credited with positive swaps, were still opened for since 2 days back, but Support e-mailed me saying I have “already closed” these positions on the same day and that’s why no positive swaps were credited.
    That was on 3/Mar/2012-Sat after my complaint on 2/Mar/2012-Friday (immediately upon receiving “Daily Confirmation” which was incorrect without the positive swaps)

    On Fri, 2/Mar/2012, when Support did not reply to my dispute with “Daily Confirmation” records, I opened a live support chat and a Mr. Jeet Singh came on the line and I explained my problem. He told me to hold while he check on my account. After 10 minutes of silence, he wrote back to say he will get back to me within 30 minutes in an e-mail. After 2 hours and still no reply, I e-mailed Support to express my dissatisfaction with their live customer support, but absolutely NOBODY got back to me as promised by Jeet Singh.

    The next day, Sat 3/Mar/2012, I received my Daily Confirmation of my trading account which again shows no positive swaps have been credited for the larger still open positions. I e-mailed Support once again to dispute the accuracies of the account and NOBODY got back to me.

    On Monday, 5/Mar/2012, a more senior Support personnel (I supposed) by the name of Loren Paulauskas e-mailed me:
    In regards to your question i would like to remind that swaps are charged after a rollover which happens only after 00.00 platform time (local time). Daily report is generated 23.59 platform time. That is why most of the positions which i saw in attached statement does not have swaps. Please read more about rollover and swaps at the link below. More over i would like to remind that there are negative and positive swaps sir. You can check these values in the spread sheet.
    ….as though I am a Newbie Trader and have absolutely no idea what is “swap” and “rollover”.

    I replied to Loren immediately:
    You at Support very obviously didn't go through my complaint and trading account at all because as shown in just some of the following examples, these opened positions have been opened since 29/Feb/2012 (and still remain opened today Monday 5/Mar/2012) and no swaps were credited:[/B]”
    And I included some examples of my still opened trade positions (completed with ticket nos, dates, & time) that should have been credited with positive swaps.

    A few hours later, Loren e-mailed back:
    We thank you for choosing Trading Point as your trusted broker. We received your email with explanation. We will investigate your issue and get back to you as soon as possible sir.
    ….as though even with my list of examples submitted to them, and the complete trade records of my trading account at their disposal, they still do not believe me….or is buying time to figure out how to handle this pesky and annoying client who should shut-up while Trading Point go about quietly scamming their clients.

    The next day, Tue 6/Mar/2012, the Daily Confirmation show the same problem of no positive swaps being credited into my opened positions which should receive positive swaps. Negative swaps, on trade positions opened the day before, were immediately debited.

    I e-mailed Loren & Support to dispute the accuracies of the account:
    Once AGAIN for the 3rd time/day I dispute the accuracies of my trading account "Daily confirmation" e-mailed to me from Trading Point since positive swaps have STILL NOT BEEN CREDITED for the short opened positions, and also for some short positions which have already been closed by myself (in profits) but which swaps have also not been credited.
    This issue is apparently not only faced by myself since one of my friend, also with Trading point, has the same problem of no positive swaps being credited into his trading accounts too.
    In an e-mail yesterday, you wrote "We received your email with explanation. We will investigate your issue and get back to you as soon as possible sir".
    Please advise how soon is "as soon as possible" that my account will be credited with positive swaps??
    I believe its fair that a dateline be given since this is no way to carry out trading.”


    Loren came back with:
    We thank you for choosing Trading Point as your trusted broker. I would kindly ask you to allow us 3 working days to investigate this matter and come back with the best and fair decision sir. We need to calculate swaps correctly and all instruments and reimburse them.Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

    Seems like Trading Point calculate swaps “manually” and needed the extra time to adjust the missing swaps to make them more believable to me.

    I replied with:
    Thank you for your reply to my 3rd e-mail informing of the none crediting of daily positive swaps for my trading account No. 32575.
    Alright, I will wait until Thursday 8/Mar/2012 for Trading Point to make the necessary corrections and credit daily positive swap rates into my trading account dating back to 29/Feb/2012 and also for those already closed positions which should have positive swaps but which were not credited into my trading account.
    Let me highlight that my trading system depends very much on daily positive swaps being credited into my trading account to offset some position losses and, in the event my trading account goes into margin call because of these daily swaps, I'll hold Trading Point responsible for that eventuality due to none or delayed crediting of daily positive swaps into my trading account
    .”

    NOBODY got back to me from Trading Point that day.

    Next day, Wed 7/Mar/2012, I received Daily Confirmation with no positive swaps being credited for the still opened larger swap positions. I wrote to Loren & Support:
    This is the 4th time I dispute the accuracies of my trading account No. 32575 Daily Confirmation sent by Trading Point as I have still not been credited with positive swaps since 29/Feb/2012.
    Furthermore, due to delayed and none credit of positive swaps for opened short positions, yesterday (Tues 6-Mar-2012) my trading account has gone into margin call and subsequently been stopped out with low equity. For this, as informed yesterday Tues 6-Mar-2012 I hold Trading Point responsible due to delayed and none crediting of positive swaps into my trading account which would have raised my equity level to avoid margin call and account wipe out
    ……”
    Again, NOBODY got back to me from Trading point.

    All this time, I did not close any positions which should have positive swaps as I was concerned that if I close them out, that would complicate the problem & disputes of none crediting of positive swaps for these positions, some of which have been kept opened since 29/Feb/2012.
    On the same day (but recorded as 6/Mar/2012 on my Account History, which probably is their server time) my trading account went into margin call and later (probably while I was asleep) got stopped out.
    No more Daily Confirmations and any e-mails from Trading Point’s representative Loren/Support were received for 7th & 8th/Mar/2012.

    On the 9/Mar/2012, a Andy Draniewicz from Trading point Customer Care Department sent me an e-mail:
    We thank you for choosing Trading Point as your trusted broker. I CC Mr Murshid bin Mohamad our Malaysian Representative with this e-mail , in case you should need assistance in your native language.Referring to your doubts regarding swap calculation (account 27709) on period between 29/02 to 09/03 ,as we have calculated some of the swaps were calculated with higher values , some with lower.However, the missing values have would not prevent the stop outs which occurred during that period. The total amount of 4.67$ will be reimbursed to your account with additional bonus from our side of 5$ with regards for the inconvenience.We have contacted the MetaQuotes( MT4 developer) in your case in order to prevent this kind of situation in the future.Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Wishing you a Happy and Successful Trading!!!
    (*Note: He even wrote the wrong account number which he later corrected in a follow-up e-mail)

    Wow!!! A whole usd5 as “bonus for inconvenience” (and I am not going to bother checking the accuracies of Trading Point’s swap calculations as I am very sure that it’s a BS figure anywhere)….and I supposed they expect me to jump up with joy and be forever grateful for their kind & generous “bonus for inconvenience” my trading strategy which highly depended on daily positive swaps (small & big)…..and that I should shut-up and be silence forever while Trading Point quietly go about applying their new scam to fleece their clients….and they lay the blame squarely on MTQuotes too!

    I say this for a fact as one of my local trading friend has also not been credited with positive swaps but he chose not to complain mainly because his many trading accounts with Trading Point are much smaller, and thus not worth the hassle and trouble. But that’s two clients (or one client & one ex-client) of Trading Point who are being cheated/scammed this way, so the question becomes, “How many more of Trading Point’s clients are being cheated/scammed this way, but who chose not to highlight this “minor” scamming operation??”
    Yes, alone and in isolated cases, it’s indeed a “minor” scam, but add a few thousand trading accounts and it becomes a “major” and highly lucrative scamming operation.

    Money is not the issue here and I made that very clear to Trading Point as it involve a relatively small amount of money and, as I e-mailed to Andy:
    Trading Point can keep whatever money is left in my account as money is not the issue here and never has been as I was just trying out a strategy which Trading Point completely and utterly messed up for me. I will try that on a more trustworthy and better regulated broker.”

    It’s just the principal of applying selective crediting of positive swap rates to Trading Point advantage, and then trying to lie and wormed their way out when queried by client.
    I would not labeled Trading Point as a complete scam and bucketshop broker because I have not been scammed the normal way. But I would advise "extra caution” if you decide you still want to go live with this not-so-honest broker. And for those who have live trading account with Trading Point, pay particular attention to your swap credits as Trading Point might and will scam you if they think you don’t know any better.

    And this happened all in the space of time that it Biblically took to create the Earth.

    (Note: Another “funny thing” happened and was recorded in my trading account “Journal” with an entry:

    00:06:41 Experts are disabled because the account has been changed”.

    I don’t and never have nor know how to use an EA. So, what does that entry meant by “account has been changed”???? For the inexperienced me in EA, I would think that’s because Trading Point uses and abuses the MTQuote virtual plug-in and manually manipulated my trading account from within their server.)

    As a final remark, this is what’s written on Trading Point official website regarding swaps/rollover on “Overnight Positions”:

    Trading Point debits or credits clients’ accounts, rollover interest at competitive rollover rates for all positions held open after 22:00 GMT.

    Trading Point should consider rewording that to:
    Trading Point debits or credits clients’ accounts, rollover interest at competitive rollover rates for all positions (except for those positive high rate swaps which is further explained below) held open after 22:00 GMT.”

    When is rollover booked?
    22:00 GMT is considered the beginning and end of the forex trading day. Any positions that are open at 22:00 sharp are considered to be held overnight, and are subject to rollover. A position opened at 22:01 is not subject to rollover until the next day, while a position opened at 21:59 is subject to rollover at 22:00 GMT. A credit or debit for each position open at 22:00 appears on your account within an hour, and is applied directly to your account equity.

    Trading Point should consider changing that last sentence to suit their scam as follows:
    A debit and small swap rate credit for each position opened at 22:00 appears on your account within an hour, and is applied directly to your account equity. However, for bigger positive swaps, Trading Point will manually calculate them and get back to you as soon as possible. And it's not our fault, but MetaQuotes( MT4 developer).”

    In the event another client file a similar complaint to Trading Point Support, they can refer that pesky client to this swap/rollover section. Problem immediately solved by that T&C…similar to some not-so-trust-worthy brokers’ T&C that we have read here at the FPA.
     

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  2. stevesmain

    stevesmain Sergeant

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    Very good presentation of the facts!

    seems typical that they do not know how their own system is working
     
  3. Pharaoh

    Pharaoh Colonel

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    If you still have that account and there's enough money to make 2 small trades, open a short and a long on one of the high swap pairs and let it run for a few days. Then ask them to explain how if 2 trades are opened within a few moments of each other that only the one with negative swap shows anything in the swap category.
     
  4. RahmanSL

    RahmanSL Major

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    Thank you stevesmain for your support and compliment!;)...but I just wrote that as it is, and as fairly as possible!

    ================================================

    Oh great Ruler of Upper & Lower Nile,

    There is no need to do that as I have ample screenshots of my live & a demo account with similar trades. However, on the demo, positive swaps were credited but not for the positions in live account.

    Anywhere, Trading Point representative has already admitted in e-mail to me that, Quote:"...As for the further investigation in this case ( as we could not find the reason on our side, why the swap charges were not correctly credited to your account ) we have contacted the MetaQuotes -the Mt4 developer seeking additional assistance, as we would like to find why- and most important -make sure that this kind of situation will be prevented in the future"....and "..."However, I going to clarify that situation completely , as I've informed you before, Trading Point has to find out the reason and solution to the fact, that swap calculation on your trading account has been calculated incorrectly."

    There is no disputes that Trading Point did screwed up with "selective" crediting of positive swaps, and (as stated on above e-mail) they have contacted the Developer of MTQuotes for "additional assistance" "to find out the reason and solution to the fact, that swap calculation on your(my) trading account has been calculated incorrectly."


    Do you, or any members here know what a strange entry (Saturday, March 03, 2012, 12:26:40 AM) in my Trading Point MT4 trading platform “Journal” means:

    00:06:41 Experts are disabled because the account has been changed”.

    What “Experts”, and who changed my account???
    I have asked Trading Point Representative in my last e-mail about that: "Perhaps while you are consulting with MTQuotes, you might shed some light on that for me."
     
  5. Accent

    Accent Private

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    Woow

    Is it Trading Point regulated by FSA / EEA ? Can we make complaint about them?
     
  6. RahmanSL

    RahmanSL Major

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    Company registration: Trading Point Of Financial Instruments Ltd, Cyprus

    Regulation: CySEC License No. 120/10; FSA UK #538324

    Accent, since it involve small money, I am not claiming any refunds and compensation from them, so there is no point in spending additional time in pursuing the case.
    I just want other traders to be aware of and be wary of Trading Point quiet scam when dealing with them.

    However, dependent on my mood and available free time, I might sent FSA a copy of the above post (with other screenshot records) and let them figure out exactly what Trading Point and MTQuotes are up to with their MT4 Trading server ....might turn out to be an interesting case since the recent "hot news" regarding MTQuotes virtual plug-in potential abuses :p
     
  7. Pharaoh

    Pharaoh Colonel

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    Send it to Cysec and FSA. Might as well invite all the regulators to the party. ;)
     
  8. RahmanSL

    RahmanSL Major

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    Thank you Pharaoh for updating this thread (I was scratching my balding head to think of a legitimate excuse to keep this thread on the front page of the FPA:p).

    I have e-mailed Trading Point Andy for an update on his "investigation" (and consultation with MTQuotes) to get to the bottom of my problem and, in an e-mail today, my dateline to him is Tuesday 20-Mar-2012.

    If no satisfactory explanation is forthcoming, then I will most certainly invite Cysec & FSA to the party.
     
  9. Pharaoh

    Pharaoh Colonel

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    Anyone want to bet if they bother to reply or not?
     
  10. RahmanSL

    RahmanSL Major

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    Hey Pharaoh, you might lost your bet coz Andy did e-mail me back to inform they (Traing Point) are in contact with MetaQuotes over my problem.
    Wow! MetaQuotes is actually taking a look at my near dead trading account!:p


    Updates from Andy :

    "...MetaQuotes just contacted us and confirmed that the the discreteness , which you have experienced were caused by the minor bug found on their side. Please rest assured that I will personally follow up with your case and get to the very bottom of this matter, as I've invested vast amount of my time in order to clarify this issue completely and I will not rest until the issue will be explained and correctly resolved.

    At this stage we are working together with MetaQuotes in order to resolve this situation . We will fully address your comments in FPA, when we will have detailed information in this case.
    ..."


    ...and I actually feel sorry for that guy coz he seems quite genuine in getting to the bottom of my problem.
    But the problem is, another slight problem has popped-up (which I have already highlighted to Andy/Loen/Support earlier on today) on top of the earlier problem!
    This I will divulge at a later post as I really don't want to jump the gun and pile more onto Andy's plate.
     

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