Forex Signal (Tuesday August 9, 2011 - 4:30am EDT NY Time EDT) - UK Man. Production

[Stavro D'Amore]

hi,

i'm newb in forex. may anyone here share the right website where i can get those figure for trade?

Hi you can get those figures from me, we can assist at the FPA,You can check our calender and my trade plans will give you more depth, don't get sucked in to those guys promoting there businesses to you.

 

[unkle]

Hi I use an ECN broker who allows me to enter on limit orders so i set my limit orders 7 pips away from current prices.

Stavro do You really mean limit orders ? How do You use limit orders to news trading ? I know how to use stop orders but limit orders ? or do You mean use limit orders in Your after-news retracment method ? But everything is going to fast to have time to place limit orders below first spike and have hope that the price will retrace.
I suppose no platform allow to place limit orders for example buy limit over actual price or sell limit under actual price ?

 

[Boko Maru]

Stavro do You really mean limit orders ? How do You use limit orders to news trading ? I know how to use stop orders but limit orders ? or do You mean use limit orders in Your after-news retracement method ? But everything is going to fast to have time to place limit orders below first spike and have hope that the price will retrace.
I suppose no platform allow to place limit orders for example buy limit over actual price or sell limit under actual price ?

They are called "soft" limit orders, meaning buy limit above current price, and sell limit below. So if price is 50 and you set a buy limit at 60, you will get filled anywhere from 50-60 but no higher than 60. If price jumps pasts 60 before your order can be filled, you will just have a limit order hanging there unfilled.

Idea here is slippage control, and this gives you that. This is NOT a stop order, but an actual limit order just used in a different way than most people think of it.

That being said, you won't be able to place these kinds of orders at most bucketshops and I'm pretty sure MT4 won't allow you to do it; you need an ECN, or some type of interbank platform like Currenex, etc.

 

[samfx]

Boko Maru,

You have said this "They are called "soft" limit orders, meaning buy limit above current price, and sell limit below".

Well,

A buy limit is setting an order at price below current price and not above it. If market goes down bellow your price setting including the spread then you will get filled.

Sell limit is setting an order at price above current price and not below. If market goes up you will get filled. Am I right?

So, on a spike trade when data comes out you expect the market to move down before it spike up. or it move up before it spikes down on a weak data release?

It doesn't make sense!!!

Unless you are talking about Buy Stop and Sell Stop pending orders. And with these orders you can not control slippage. If the broker want to slip you he can easly it happens all the time.

With MT4 you have 4 pending orders: Buy limit, Sell limit, Buy stop and Sell stop. Which one are you talking about?

Does this make sense?

 

[Boko Maru]

Boko Maru,

You have said this "They are called "soft" limit orders, meaning buy limit above current price, and sell limit below".

Well,

A buy limit is setting an order at price below current price and not above it. If market goes down bellow your price setting including the spread then you will get filled.

Sell limit is setting an order at price above current price and not below. If market goes up you will get filled. Am I right?

So, on a spike trade when data comes out you expect the market to move down before it spike up. or it move up before it spikes down on a weak data release?

It doesn't make sense!!!

Unless you are talking about Buy Stop and Sell Stop pending orders. And with these orders you can not control slippage. If the broker want to slip you he can easly it happens all the time.

With MT4 you have 4 pending orders: Buy limit, Sell limit, Buy stop and Sell stop. Which one are you talking about?

Does this make sense?

Yes I know what the classic definition of a limit order is, but that's why these are called SOFT limit orders: A limit order with a buy set above price, a sell below. Yes, you read that correctly, and no, I'm not talking about stop orders. It is exactly as I have explained above.

First off though, you can't do this on MT4. But on a true ECN or interbank platform, you can set a buy or sell limit order wherever you want. Just read what I wrote; I think it's pretty self explanatory. I am NOT talking about stop orders. Get a Currenex demo or an MB Trading demo (not their MT4), and try setting a buy limit order above current market price and see what happens. If it's not a fast market condition, you order will be filled immediately at the current price.

Again (like I said in my post if you want to re-read it), the whole point here is to control slippage when doing spike trading. I am not talking about getting in on a retrace; I am talking abut getting in on the initial spike. If that's not how you trade anyway then it's a moot point. But if you do, then wouldn't you want to control at what price you get filled?

If price is 50 two seconds before the news, then shoots way up 1 second after the news, do you really want to get filled 60, 70, 80 pips up the spike? If not, then use limit orders the way I described. So if 10 pips slippage is acceptable to you, then set a buy limit in this example for 60 (10 pips above current price of 50). If price shoots way past 60 on the spike, you will get filled or you won't get filled, but if you do get filled, it will be between 50-60, but no higher than 60 (as I explained above).

Hope that helps...

 

[Stavro D'Amore]

This is a large topic i will cover it in Part II of my trading method, how to trade spike with certain orders and what platfroms are available for these orders

 

[samfx]

Boko Maru, thank you for taking the time and explaining what you meant by soft limit order. I will open demo account and try it out as you suggested.

It's very helpful...

Do you use Auto click software for spike trading... I am using Oracle Trader.
I get re-quotes and slippage all the time.

Do you recommend any broker that gives a good fill and good execution and less re-quotes.

True ECN, how would you know which broker is a TRUE ECN. I know that many say they are ECN brokers but not so sure about that.

From your experience what is the advantage of using ECN for trading the news vs dealing desk or other type of broker?

Thank you again.

 

[unkle]

Yes I know what the classic definition of a limit order is, but that's why these are called SOFT limit orders: A limit order with a buy set above price, a sell below. Yes, you read that correctly, and no, I'm not talking about stop orders. It is exactly as I have explained above.

First off though, you can't do this on MT4. But on a true ECN or interbank platform, you can set a buy or sell limit order wherever you want. Just read what I wrote; I think it's pretty self explanatory. I am NOT talking about stop orders. Get a Currenex demo or an MB Trading demo (not their MT4), and try setting a buy limit order above current market price and see what happens. If it's not a fast market condition, you order will be filled immediately at the current price.

Again (like I said in my post if you want to re-read it), the whole point here is to control slippage when doing spike trading. I am not talking about getting in on a retrace; I am talking abut getting in on the initial spike. If that's not how you trade anyway then it's a moot point. But if you do, then wouldn't you want to control at what price you get filled?

If price is 50 two seconds before the news, then shoots way up 1 second after the news, do you really want to get filled 60, 70, 80 pips up the spike? If not, then use limit orders the way I described. So if 10 pips slippage is acceptable to you, then set a buy limit in this example for 60 (10 pips above current price of 50). If price shoots way past 60 on the spike, you will get filled or you won't get filled, but if you do get filled, it will be between 50-60, but no higher than 60 (as I explained above).

Hope that helps...

i understand all You say about that soft limit orders but i still do not really know how that help us ?
normal limit order works like that:
we have price for example on 1,4950
we can place limit buy order below that price let's say 10 pips below so we have buy limit order at 1,4940
the news are published and the price is going down and nothing happened because the limit order fill in only when the price is returning up (in that example)

if we can put that magic soft sell limit order we can place it at the same level that our example buy limit

so we have soft sell limit order at 1,4940
the news are published and the price is going down
and if this is true what You say that order will be filled in at that price ?
but why ?
this is still limit order
so it should first go up from below of that order and then down and until that this order will not be filled in

i understand that this kind of order is simply the future limit orders
we can place them where we want but the mechanism of its filling in is the same that normal limit order ?

if I am wrong in my thinking can You explain me where i make the mistake ?



and the second issue
lets say I am wrong and that kind of order will be really filled in just like You say

so what is the difference between that kind of order and the stop order ?
why You believe that the stop orders have may pips of slippage and the soft limit orders won't ?

 

[Boko Maru]

i understand all You say about that soft limit orders but i still do not really know how that help us ?
normal limit order works like that:
we have price for example on 1,4950
we can place limit buy order below that price let's say 10 pips below so we have buy limit order at 1,4940
the news are published and the price is going down and nothing happened because the limit order fill in only when the price is returning up (in that example)

if we can put that magic soft sell limit order we can place it at the same level that our example buy limit

so we have soft sell limit order at 1,4940
the news are published and the price is going down
and if this is true what You say that order will be filled in at that price ?
but why ?
this is still limit order
so it should first go up from below of that order and then down and until that this order will not be filled in

i understand that this kind of order is simply the future limit orders
we can place them where we want but the mechanism of its filling in is the same that normal limit order ?

if I am wrong in my thinking can You explain me where i make the mistake ?



and the second issue
lets say I am wrong and that kind of order will be really filled in just like You say

so what is the difference between that kind of order and the stop order ?
why You believe that the stop orders have may pips of slippage and the soft limit orders won't ?

Honestly everything you are asking about I have already explained, so please just reread carefully in my above posts, but I will try again here.

First, I'm not talking about a "normal" limit order.

Defintion of a soft limit order: for a BUY, placing the order above current market price, not below. You first need to get this. This is not a stop order, it is a limit order. I understand this is different from what all the forex books and websites tell you, but you need to understand this, that yes, you CAN place a limit order above current price. What happens usually when you do this? Your order just gets filled instantly at the current price.

In your example, you would be filled immediately as long as price had not gone beyond your sell limit at 1.4940. So if price was 1.4950, you'd get filled right away, probably at 1.4950, but would not get a fill any lower than 1.4940. It's not a "future" limit order at all. As long as price has not yet passed your limit at 1.4940 (in this case price anywhere between 1.4950 and 1.4940), you get filled right away.

So let's again use my earlier example: current price is 50. You set a buy limit at 60. What happens? You probably get filled right at 50. What's the difference between this and a stop order at 60? Tons. A stop order doesn't even kick in until price reaches 60, and then when it does, it's just a market order, so you get filled wherever and have zero control re. the fill. So you might get filled at 100. A limit order at 60, you get filled anywhere from 50-60, BUT NO HIGHER THAN 60. Understand now?

So, why would you ever use this? At news, you may have noticed price spikes violently one direction (let's say "up" in this case). Using a market or a stop order, you have no control over your fill. You could have a horrible fill with slippage. But using a limit (soft limit), you'll either get filled at 60 or lower, or you won't get filled at all. Again, the whole point here is slippage control when spike trading.

Ok, again, all you need to understand this is in my now 3 posts on the subject.

And again, you cannot do this on MT4.

Hope it helps...

 

[Boko Maru]

Boko Maru, thank you for taking the time and explaining what you meant by soft limit order. I will open demo account and try it out as you suggested.

It's very helpful...

Do you use Auto click software for spike trading... I am using Oracle Trader.
I get re-quotes and slippage all the time.

Do you recommend any broker that gives a good fill and good execution and less re-quotes.

True ECN, how would you know which broker is a TRUE ECN. I know that many say they are ECN brokers but not so sure about that.

From your experience what is the advantage of using ECN for trading the news vs dealing desk or other type of broker?

Thank you again.

Sure no problem.

I use Secret News Weapon, but spike trading is a much more difficult endeavor now than it used to be, so I hesitate to really recommend it. If I didn't already have 4 years of experience doing it, I wouldn't start now. You can make a ton of money or you can lose your rear on spike trades. I have experienced both. Suggest getting good at retracement trading first.

Re. my current broker, sorry but that's not for public consumption. But you might look at PFG Best's Best 8 Direct platform.

Re. how to know ECN from not, in US at least, if a broker makes money when you lose, they have to disclose that in account opening documents. If they do, they are not an ECN but a market maker, aka bucketshop.

Advantage of using ECN is they aren't actively looking to defeat your trading whereas a bucketshop is (it's how they make money). That said, I gleefully took FXDD for a crapload of money (tens of thousands) before they got smart and starting using tricks to defeat spike traders. But you can't do it there anymore; you can try, but you'll either get requotes, or no fills, or bad fills. Like I said, it used to be a lot easier...