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Discuss ForexRobotTrader.com

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Don Steinitz not as advertised?

Forgive the length of this post, please. I am totally brand new at Forex. Just now reading up on basics, getting to know markets, etc. Friend of mine sent me link to NoLossRobot. Ad starts with "we; our..." in talking about the program. Then, "John" and "Mark", including nice pictures of them, are introduced as the creators and programmers of the EA (no last names). They are "traders, not businemen", so would sell it for "only $149, download NOW! The price will be going up to $149 a MONTH after the next 20 are sold!!!". The contact form has no names. The ad says the program/robot automatically adjusts to trends in the market to get the most profitable trade. Also, it promised numerous times that there were no losses in any trades made. Period...No Losses! Wow, had to have if I was going to try a system as a novice with no experience. Promised minutes set up time, incredibly easy to use, etc. Paid for it. Still no mention of Don Steinitz anywhere, until I got the download completed and agreements made page on the internet. His name finally shows up, but not the "John" or "Mark" as advertised on the original ad. Hmmm...decided to search this name. Found this site and some others, with contradictory opinions/claims. then on 11-8-09, got email from one of these affiliates about the NoLossRobot from Don Steinitz about his robot. Don's response about stop/loss:
"A system either has to have a stop loss or it must keep positions
open indefinitely. You must pick one. If you're using a stop loss you
will have drawdown if you get stopped out. The more stop outs the
bigger the drawdown. With a robot like this that does not use a
conventional stoploss you will have drawdown until that trade comes
back into profit territory.
Because we trade multiple currencies at the same time no one
particular currency will hurt us bad enough. We trade 1% per
currency with 10 currencies or 10%. The maximum drawdown I have
seen during the worst of the worst times have been around 35%. I
have seen this twice in the past five years but all trades came
back into profit territory.
Because we always trade in the direction of the daily, weekly and
monthly trend we have the best of it which allows the trades to go
into positive territory sooner or later. Money management is
key...
The robot does have a unique feature that can be turned on to exit
any trade where the monthly or the daily timeframes have changed
direction, indicating there was a major change in the original
trend. That's the ultimate stop loss which is much more logical
than some arbitrary made up stoploss that probably gets hit by your
broker mysteriously every time..."
I then realized when I read "sooner or later" and "multiple currencies"--- something was wrong. I had bought something that was not what it advertised up front, or at least did not tell you the stop-loss mechanism was up to you. That's when (finally!) I went to sites like this to do some belated research. Sent him email about my unease about him (Steinitz, the one not in the original ad!) being disingenuous and not up-front about some things but I would like to use the product as advertised. Got a snotty reply. (Can post it some other time) Received no satisfaction to my original email...then decided to go with my gut and ask for money back-as advertised. That was today. Will let everyone know if he complies with the advertised money-back guarantee or not. I am still looking for a novice level EA (FapTurbo/Ivybot?) to begin demo trading on. Please advise.
 
Oliver Bridges, What are you talking about? There are no John or Mark mentioned anywhere on Don's site, and there is a complete biography of Don Steinitz. Also there is no mention anywhere about it going to a monthly fee. I think you've got your advertisments crossed.

Don Steinitz is very personable, and cares about and works hard for his robots. He has been steadily improving and creating robots for a long time and is still in business and extremely accessable. Of all the robot creators I have dealt with, I would give him top marks for integrity and good market theory. However, I dont believe he has a no loss robot, or that this is a practicle idea. This seems more of a marketing ploy, than an intelligent trading strategy. The drawdowns using this strategy across multiple pairs can be incredible, and the resulting margin calls, or the recomended closing of all trades at months end can cause huge losses. Further, although the idea of multiple time frame analysis is very sound, the robot doesnt look at enough of a span of the upper time frames to be particularly accurate, and the Heiken Ashi Smoothed indicator is extremely lagging. If you do run this robot you should look at the upper time frames yourself, and confirm the general trend and position in that trend/range, otherwise you could be setting yourself up for a rude awakening to thousands of pips of drawdown before the trend even has a chance to resume, and if it doesnt resume and instead makes a major trend change it could devastate your account in one move.

This robot has the ability to make incredible amounts of money very quickly, and then get stuck in indefinate drawdowns for months. It is not an easy robot to run, psychologicaly or physicaly. The endless drawdowns can really play a number on your head, and the multiple pair, multiple time frame methods can drain your computers CPU causing system freezes and other problems. Further, although Don is very personable and loves to talk about his creations, he doesnt tolerate fools or complainers very well, and can become quite rude.

Lastly, there is no refund. This is stated quite clearly in the mandatory disclosure agreement. You buy it, you own it, whether you like it or not. I never bought it, I have an older demo copy given to me by anouther trader. This is as far as I was willing to go with this robot. I still think that the theory and concepts behind it are sound, but the unlimited drawdowns, and lagging signals, are hard to work with.
 
Oliver, to get your refund refer to your Clickbank receipt email.
Towards the bottom of the email, click on the link below CUSTOMER SERVICE. This will open a Clickbank Support Ticket. From the 'Select a reason' drop down menu, choose 'More options' and check off 'Refund Request'. Give whatever comments you want. Clickbank will honour your refund request.
Should Don reply using 'Tech Support Request', just check off 'Refund Request' again and exercise your right to the 'No questions asked, 60-day money back guarantee'. You will definitely get your refund from Clickbank second time round.
 
Oliver, to get your refund refer to your Clickbank receipt email.
Towards the bottom of the email, click on the link below CUSTOMER SERVICE. This will open a Clickbank Support Ticket. From the 'Select a reason' drop down menu, choose 'More options' and check off 'Refund Request'. Give whatever comments you want. Clickbank will honour your refund request.
Should Don reply using 'Tech Support Request', just check off 'Refund Request' again and exercise your right to the 'No questions asked, 60-day money back guarantee'. You will definitely get your refund from Clickbank second time round.

Get your head on straight. There are no refunds.... This is stated quite clearly on the purchase agreement, and this is not a ClickBank product.
 
Now this is interesting. The EA is obviously Don's MTF HAS EA, or a direct clone. I dont see Don mentioned anywhere on the sales page, so I have to wonder, but I suspect that he's just trying a new aproach to his sales and marketing. The web site is obviously the same as every other Forex BS website. The same copy, the same hooks, paid actors posing as the creators, and such, but it is being sold through Clickbank, so you can get the standard Clickbank guarenteed refund. The easiest way is to just forward the original reciept to refunds@cilickbank.com, and simply ask for a refund, no fancy excuses or reasons needed, I always have my refund the next day.

This robot appears to be Don's newer HAS EA without the hedging feature, that he sells on his site for $149 as well. Whether its identical or not is impossible to tell, but according to Oliver's original posting it is Don's product and in the end he was dealing with Don. The NoLossRobot web site appears to be just marketing copy, and contains nothing useful or truthful, other than the Clickbank guarantee.

That said, his original MTF HAS Hedge robot was a beautiful piece of work. Very few robot sellers produce a program with all the user controlable features this one has, and I've always though that there must be a way to run this profitably and consistantly. The problem has always been that the HAS is a Heiken Ashi smoothed moving average, and as with any smoothed moving average its extremelly lagging.

But the underlying trading theory is very true. If you always trade with the upper trends aligned, and you can afford to wait out drawdowns, you dont need to be particularly accurate to be 100% profitable. As long as you follow the upper trends and get out if something goes wrong, or simply dont trade when things arent stable.

The robot has plenty of stop loss abilities, including preset trailing stops and Heiken Ashi indicator stops, but its more profitable if you dont use them and instead watch the trends and wait out any drawdowns.

I havent run this robot in a while, but maybe I should try it again, I'm sure it can be quite profitable if used correctly, with the right allowance for drawdowns, and a careful eye on the trends.
 
Steinitz gave refund, reluctantly and with some commentary.

The No Loss Robot was advertised through an affiliate, who did not have any mention of Don or his website. The only contact to the "makers" of the EA was a link in the ad itself. That's when I was surprised to see his name show up, not the other two guys clearly stated in the ad as the makers of this product. That fact, in and of itself, gave me some quick insight into who I was dealing with. He (Don) contacted Clickbank and my refund was posted within one day after my second email to him. He may have a really fine piece of programming, but his character indicates a serious lack of ethics and trustworthiness. After reading through these posts and other sites in my education, a possible seriously deep and long drawdown on many or most of your pairs just doesn't make sense to what I think would be my trading style (as yet virtually untested!).
 
Seriously Deep and Long is right. And if you use his proposed technique of closing all open trades at the end of every month to prevent these seriously deep and long drawdowns, its no longer a "no loss" robot.

I could not run this robot on my accounts unresricted any more than the FAPS robot. The drawdowns in both time and money are just incomprehensible untill you've been through them once or twice. However, either of these robots could make an interesting trading assistant. The combination of manual and automated trading makes sense. We can identify the trends and our position in the market, but we cant trade the short time frames 24 hrs a day. A robot such as this is capable of placing many trades in a short period of time. What it needs is a guiding hand that can read the trends more accuratrely and turn it on and off, and close open orders before problems develop.
 
NoLossRobot web site is also owned by Don Steinitz

Hi
Few days ago Don did replied to my email, asking him about
NoLossRobot web site, he replied that that is his company.

Guys, I was going to give up hope on Don's EA (Steinitz HAS MTF Hedge Robot) which I bought Nov 2009 and wanting to ask him for refund,
at that time I was using his robot whenever I switch on my platform,
all I had was loss trades due to my inconsistency.

But I didnt give up, (Thank God for this :)) I purchased VPS
hosting service, I got the cheapest on the net, and set
Hedge robot up on Jan 28, deposit virtual money $1,000,

I only use 0.1 lot for 12 trading days, it has profited $1,9xx.
I set everything to default, only change Account#, have to ask
Don to re code EA to live acc, so demo has different EA version.

Also change MONEY MANAGEMENT,
AccountsMini to TRUE, AccountsMicro to FALSE, MaxSpread to 4.
Save this to preset file.

Always make sure u click on every TimeFrame before load the
templates, then the EA. AND, DONT MOVE THE CHARTS, I
always keep it at M5.

Guys, this is THE ONLY EA i didnt ask for refund, the rest I dont
use. Don's Hedge Robot really works! I can show u my demo and
live statements.

Happy Trading



Now this is interesting. The EA is obviously Don's MTF HAS EA, or a direct clone. I dont see Don mentioned anywhere on the sales page, so I have to wonder, but I suspect that he's just trying a new aproach to his sales and marketing. The web site is obviously the same as every other Forex BS website. The same copy, the same hooks, paid actors posing as the creators, and such, but it is being sold through Clickbank, so you can get the standard Clickbank guarenteed refund. The easiest way is to just forward the original reciept to refunds@cilickbank.com, and simply ask for a refund, no fancy excuses or reasons needed, I always have my refund the next day.

This robot appears to be Don's newer HAS EA without the hedging feature, that he sells on his site for $149 as well. Whether its identical or not is impossible to tell, but according to Oliver's original posting it is Don's product and in the end he was dealing with Don. The NoLossRobot web site appears to be just marketing copy, and contains nothing useful or truthful, other than the Clickbank guarantee.

That said, his original MTF HAS Hedge robot was a beautiful piece of work. Very few robot sellers produce a program with all the user controlable features this one has, and I've always though that there must be a way to run this profitably and consistantly. The problem has always been that the HAS is a Heiken Ashi smoothed moving average, and as with any smoothed moving average its extremelly lagging.

But the underlying trading theory is very true. If you always trade with the upper trends aligned, and you can afford to wait out drawdowns, you dont need to be particularly accurate to be 100% profitable. As long as you follow the upper trends and get out if something goes wrong, or simply dont trade when things arent stable.

The robot has plenty of stop loss abilities, including preset trailing stops and Heiken Ashi indicator stops, but its more profitable if you dont use them and instead watch the trends and wait out any drawdowns.

I havent run this robot in a while, but maybe I should try it again, I'm sure it can be quite profitable if used correctly, with the right allowance for drawdowns, and a careful eye on the trends.
 
But I set Hedge robot up on Jan 28, deposit virtual money $1,000,

I only use 0.1 lot for 12 trading days, it has profited $1,9xx.
I set everything to default, only change Account#, have to ask
Don to re code EA to live acc, so demo has different EA version.

How many days have you been running this for? and you think its a great robot?? What will you do when the major trend changes and the robot continues to open orders in the original direction. By the time the Heiken Ashi Smoothed detects a change on the upper trends it could already be in drawdown by hundreds of pips.

If your running 0.1 lots on a 1K account, how many charts are you trading on. If your trading Don's recomended 10 pairs and you open orders on them all at 0.1 lot you will have an automatic margin call. If you only trade 1 pair you might survive at this level of leverage, just might. No Loss means, No Stop Loss, this robot is perfectly capable of holding huge drawdowns, 1000 pip drawdowns are not uncommon.

So have you figured out an actual system to run this reliably over a longer time period than just 12 days. I'm not saying it cant be done, its just not that easy. Like the ForexAutoPilot, the best use of these no stop loss robots is with your own directional bias. You determine the trend ahead of time and assign the robot to trade in only one direction. When the trend changes or goes into a corrective pattern you remove the robot and manualy manage the trades for the best exit.

The problem with this EA and other simple systems that run off moving averages and indicators is that they will always enter the trades late, at the wrong end of a range, or the end of a trend. As long as you have the next greater trend in your favor you can wait it out. This could take days or weeks depending on the situation. However, if you get stuck like this, and this is a common occurance, and your position goes into drawdown by a couple hundred pips, and then the trend breaks in the wrong direction, your sunk.
 
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