FXChoice.com does not honor stops during 2+hr rollover, weekends

Dear John Jensen,

We meet yet again to discuss this topic. Thanks for inviting us to participate.

Thank you for joining me here.

Let’s address your claim that ‘The page above does not specify that orders are not executed during rollover times. This page does not specify when the rollover times are.’

Perhaps we needed to word our response to you a little better,

"A little better?!" It's taken me 3 tickets, losing 3/4 of my account TWICE, this thread, a FPA review, and a FB review to find out this information even exists. To say your documentation is lacking is infuriatingly unacceptable. Your rules were not clear. Materially relevant information was buried under layers, which prior knowledge would have been necessary to find. I know because I looked.

Because this information was inaccessible, I was irrevocably exposed to risk I could not manage. I was unexpectedly liable for a position I could not close, and that is my dispute.

but the times are there, clearly displayed, IF you click on the instrument. We have attached a screenshot for all to see.

View attachment 43377

It is not clear, not obvious, and not easily accessible to find that information. I've seen nothing in 15 years of trading experience that would have indicated there was materially relevant risk management information buried there.

As we also explained in our response to your FPA review, this information is available in your MetaTrader terminal. Screenshot attached for all to see.
View attachment 43379

I'm glad you brought that up here, because I was unable to reply in that format. You stated in your reply that it was available, not where it was to be found. Also not useful. Thank you for clarifying.

So, we will add some extra text to our website to warn the user that they must click the instrument to see the trading times.

I think you should outright state that stop losses are not active during these times. I do not consider an active order entered with a position to be separate from the position. I feel it's unreasonable to leave that association intact when traders are using your crypto products; merely pointing to "trading times" itself does little to debunk this association. I do not believe this is an unreasonable association for an experienced trader to have coming to your products.

This is especially reinforced because MT4 orders are submitted to the server which handles execution. I expect server-client communication to be nonexistent for a short 'rollover' or 'break time' during the day, however, there is nothing technical that prevents servers from executing orders that have already been entered during this time. Therefore there is no reason for me to assume that they wouldn't be, and the language you use is insufficient to differentiate between a client-server disconnect (which we agree happens anyway) and actually turning off the server.

Now, you also claim that it doesn’t say orders won’t be processed during the rollover. We used the words ‘Break time’. That would suggest that this period is one of inaction. We have also published an article in our Knowledge Base that explains trades are not processed during rollovers and weekends: http://kb.myfxchoice.com/article/6766/99759

Mere suggestion is insufficient in this context. Spell it out. Ahead of time. Buried documentation that clarifies a suggestion is not useful after I've taken >90% losses.

We noticed that you have also posted your concerns on Facebook saying that you’re looking for a ‘resolution’. To double confirm, all trades were executed in line with the Execution Rules, i.e. correctly and to the letter. As we stated in our FPA response: ‘We assume any client trading CFD instruments has read, understood and agreed to the execution rules and specifications of the instrument, which includes the trading hours’.

Then that remains the crux of our conflict: I do not agree with your assumptions that your clients have been fully informed of the risks they are exposed to in using your product, particularly given how difficult it's been for me to find that information. If I had been fully informed of the risks, I wouldn't have left my potion open during the "break time," as you call it. If I had been fully informed of your schedule, I would not have subsequently gotten caught with a trade open during "break time." I contend that these materially relevant details are not properly available to experienced traders new to your product, and directly resulted in catastrophic losses. My contention stands.

We have proven here —beyond any doubt— that the information you claim wasn’t present was in fact present and in TWO places.

You misunderstand. Your customer service rep said it was in a specific place, I looked and it wasn't there. The fact that it was somewhere else doesn't help me. The fact that I can't find it before I have to contact the customer service rep to ask what's up because it just became materially relevant is a capital-P Problem.

I can't read your mind. If your customer service rep says it's in a place, I look and don't see it, that's not my problem, it's yours. Fix your documentation. And fix my trades, which I took in good faith, believing that my trading capital was protected with a stop loss, as is the norm everywhere else.

Also, from 27th July, the rollover period is only 1hr 15 mins on BTCUSD. We hope that this may serve as a small consolation and that you’ll have a positive trading experience with us in future.

good to know. Are there plans to make it smaller?

You can make my trading experience with FxChoice a positive one by taking responsibility for your lackluster documentation, fixing materially relevant parts to be more publicly available so users are informed, and adjusting trades I made in good faith, which I've called out above, to one of three options:
* nullify the trade completely
* adjust the trade to close at my stop loss
* adjust the trade to close at the close of the last candle before the time out
and refunding the difference to my account.

Until those conditions are met, I will continue to be vocal about your crypto products and warn other customers so they don't experience the same fate I did, that is, catastrophic losses because the rules changed without clear warning.

And if you really want to get proactive about it, get the devs to put in a warning message pop up in MT4 that says, "Break time in <x> minutes! Stop losses will not be active for the duration" any time you are heading into a break (including low liquidity periods). Provide a hook that allows me to program an action to close any open trades so I can leave them running and walk away from my station, knowing that whatever happens I'll be out of the trade before break time starts, and I can control it (given there may be instances where I choose to leave a position open over break time... likely very rare, but it could happen; more useful if you get break time down to around 5min).

To respond to Edmon: Choice Bank and FXChoice are both based in Belize and have the word ‘choice’ in their name. This is where the similarity ends. We have nothing to do with one another. This is simply a coincidence.

Also good to know. I'll be double checking that.

Thank you for your time in this matter.
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I'm concerned that something that appears obvious to me is not getting communicated. At this point, I can't tell if your business model is based on building long term, mutually profitable relationships with customers, or fleecing people's money at the earliest possible opportunity.

I came looking for a method to short cryptos. Your company provided one, and I took the opportunity. I did some research, because normally I don't like instruments where my broker is also counter party to the trade. It sets up an inherent conflict of interest.

At least your forex instruments were ECN based, and that said something to me. So I went down this road. I trusted you.

And now I'm in a situation where I feel that my trust was severely violated.

The fact that there existed a tiger trap in your road is bad enough. And now you're pointing at a sign, obscured from the road in but visible from someone having already fallen in, that says, "Tiger Trap" with an arrow pointing to where I'm at. Don't you see how scammy that looks, particularly after having reached out to support for help 3 times and still not getting the clear information I required to make informed choices?

So what's your goal? What kind of relationships are you intending to build with your customers? Are you willing to repair that trust, or are you out to stick it to the suckers that fall in your trap? Which is it? This is a very polarized situation. The ball is in your court.

Don't you understand that the optics of this aren't making you look good?

We have built solid trust with our clients over the last decade or so, providing us with the scope to continue forward in the same vein. Fleecing people's money is not our game; we are known for providing excellent customer service and narrow spreads. We do not create 'traps' for our clients and utterly reject your claim.

From a crypto perspective, we will continue to offer the same conditions to our clients who have been more than happy with our offering. We are also happy with our product and we don't have any plans to change it.

Of course, we are truly disappointed that you feel your trust was violated.
Crypto is a 24/7 market, however not every FX broker will provide 24/7 trading. There are some that do.

Ultimately one should always be aware of trading conditions/limitations on any instrument they want to trade. It's unfortunate that this loss happen but broker's aren't going to hold your hand.

IMO its a case of not understanding fully the market that's being traded.
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May I speak to a higher authority within your company please?

Your complaint has already been seen by senior management. In responding to your last post, we were using their words (the reason for the delay).

We are very satisfied with the way we develop client relationships. But alas, it seems we may have lost one in you. We have to accept that we cannot please everyone, but as we said in our previous post, we will be continuing to offer our product in exactly the same way.

Good luck, John!

Crypto is a 24/7 market, however not every FX broker will provide 24/7 trading. There are some that do.

Ultimately one should always be aware of trading conditions/limitations on any instrument they want to trade. It's unfortunate that this loss happen but broker's aren't going to hold your hand.

IMO its a case of not understanding fully the market that's being traded.

To an extent, I agree - and the path to understanding needs to be better represented. When I see a problem and ask about it, I should get a meaningful, useful response. Had that happened the first time I would have only lost 25% of my account. I didn't. Not the second time, and not even the third time. I don't think it's too much to ask for timely, relevant information to be made available when it's materially relevant.