RESOLVED (AFCA findings in favor of financial firm): GlobalPrime is a dishonest scam broker too. Please don't fall into their trap.

[Shiro21]

Hi @jamho22 -

Thanks for all the kind sentiments, we appreciate it.

The trade flow process is correct for what practically happens in a matter of milliseconds.

What happens legally is different. In legal terms, there are several agreements between entities and counterparties which are required to facilitate trading. The trade flow process would look something like the below:

Note, 'trading as principal' in the case of the below means trading as yourself and not 'as an agent' on behalf of someone else. Principal trading does not mean 'B-book' as Shiro21 has wrongly suggested.

1. Client places trade (as principal)
2. Global Prime receives trade (as principal)
3. Global Prime places trade (as principal)
4. Gleneagle Securities receives trade (as principal)
5. Gleneagle Securities places trade (as principal)
6. Liquidity provider receives trade (as principal via give up agreement with prime broker)
7. Liquidity provider confirms trade to Gleneagle Securities and prime broker
8. Gleneagle Securities confirms trade to Global Prime
9. Global Prime confirms trade to client

In the above example, Global Prime is the legal counterparty to the clients trade. It's at points 6 and 7 where the trade is hedged with a liquidity provider. All of the above happens in a matter of milliseconds.

This can also be denoted as:

Client / GP relationship

1. Client long 100,000 EURUSD at 1.10
2. Global Prime short 100,000 EURUSD at 1.10

GP / GES relationship

1. Global Prime long 100,000 EURUSD at 1.10
2. Gleneagle Securities short 100,000 EURUSD at 1.10

GES / Prime broker relationship

1. Gleneagle Securities long 100,000 EURUSD at 1.10
2. Prime broker short 100,000 EURUSD at 1.10

That is what STP and A-book looks like. A corresponding hedge trade is simultaneously executed across counterparties so there is no market risk arising from clients trading. The order is confirmed in the underlying market for that instrument before it is confirmed back to the client.

The language in the PDS is consistent with the above. The PDS explains things in more legal terms. Its correct but I can see how we can improve it to make it clearer. Hope that helps! But let us know if you'd like further clarification

Batch Hedging

Prime Brokers charge fee's for small tickets - the fee structure is quite complex and costly.

FX trades less than 50,000 (or 30oz gold) are bundled together until they reach 100,000 and then sent to the liquidity providers as a batch trade.

Trades above 50,000/30oz gold go directly to the liquidity providers.

The price that is given to clients is always derived from our liquidity providers. The trade is executed using Global Prime's FIX engine 'Skout' based on these prices. Execution speeds for Skout are usually around 1ms. There isn't an artificial delay on fills as is the case with b-book brokers trying to emulate real market execution.

The 50k internalization and 100k thresholds are the lowest reasonable size to prevent small tickets hitting multiple LPs which would increase trading fees, significantly. The thresholds are trading volume, liquidity provider and prime broker dependent.

What this means is we are only ever maximum up to 100,000 (1 lot) in open exposure on a pair - compare this to most large b-book brokers which could have upwards of 1,000,000,000 (yes 1 billion) in open exposure as they aim to generate profits from market movements.

Our batch hedger is a purposely 'dumb' system as it's intention is to simply reduces the prime broker fees to a level that makes our dealing model more viable.

On the website here: https://www.globalprime.com/best-execution/#small

Regards,
Jeremy

Everything sounds about right, except that 6 and 7 don't always happens, or there would have been no need for this part:

And let me just be clear that i did not say Globalprime B-books, I'm saying they can bucket your trades anytime they want, because they clearly state so in their PDS.

And when you really look at it, there really no need both gleneagle and globalprime to be in the entire equation together, the trade could have just gone from us to either one of them, then straight to the LP, but why do they want the trade to pass through 2 of their entity before it reaches the LP? I've provided a lot of evidence in my previous post already. It's not difficult to piece all these togehter.

1. Client places trade (as principal)
2. Global Prime receives trade (as principal)
3. Global Prime places trade (as principal)
4. Gleneagle Securities receives trade (as principal)
5. Gleneagle Securities places trade (as principal)
6. Liquidity provider receives trade (as principal via give up agreement with prime broker)
7. Liquidity provider confirms trade to Gleneagle Securities and prime broker
8. Gleneagle Securities confirms trade to Global Prime
9. Global Prime confirms trade to client

And since indices and XTIUSD trades are not ECN and never goes to the market, but is instead kept in their own bucket, those are likely the trades that Gleneagle "choose not to place its hedge contract directly in the market."

Jeremy, if you would like to prove me wrong, feel free to email me all 1046 receipts of my XTIUSD and indices trades being placed by Gleneagle Securities as principal with a counterparty and I'll gladly look through each one of them to verify that they were indeed hedge at the same time I took the trades. Something you would never be able to provide, because the trades were all held internally by Gleneagle Securities, who always took the other side of the client's trades.

 

[jemook-old]

1. Client places trade (as principal)
2. Global Prime receives trade (as principal)
3. Global Prime places trade (as principal)
4. Gleneagle Securities receives trade (as principal)
5. Gleneagle Securities places trade (as principal)
6. Liquidity provider receives trade (as principal via give up agreement with prime broker)
7. Liquidity provider confirms trade to Gleneagle Securities and prime broker
8. Gleneagle Securities confirms trade to Global Prime
9. Global Prime confirms trade to client

And since indices and XTIUSD trades are not ECN and never goes to the market, but is instead kept in their own bucket, those are likely the trades that Gleneagle "choose not to place its hedge contract directly in the market."

Jeremy, if you would like to prove me wrong, feel free to email me all 1046 receipts of my XTIUSD and indices trades being placed by Gleneagle Securities as principal with a counterparty and I'll gladly look through each one of them to verify that they were indeed hedge at the same time I took the trades. Something you would never be able to provide, because the trades were all held internally by Gleneagle Securities, who always took the other side of the client's trades.

Hi @Shiro21,

As described in point 6 and 7 above the LP for XTIUSD was Vidarr who received and filled your trades. The same as if you had traded crypto CFDs where the sole LP would have been LMAX as a single provider for those products.

Unlike any broker on the planet we offer retail clients Automated Trade Receipts so our clients can look up this information on their own from inside their client portal.

You can see Vidarr was the liquidity provider for any of your XTIUSD trades such as this example from one of your trade receipt you posted earlier.

1. XTIUSD trades are not held in our own bucket.
2. The trades were not "held internally" by Gleneagle.
3. Each of your XTIUSD trades were filled by liquidity provider Vidarr.

Global Prime

#1 rated FPA broker with a 4.7 out of 5 star rating over 350 reviews over almost a 10 year span. You can read our reviews here:

GlobalPrime.com | Forex Brokers Reviews | Forex Peace Army​

Global Prime is the only broker in the world offering Automated Trade Receipts proving an A-book model and on the clients side.

#1 in commission adjusted trading costs across many FX pairs with our zero commission model.

The only broker with a public facing community Discord where you can hang out with the founder and team.

As the founder, I'm here in the trenches with you guys and not hiding like other brokers have in the past and I'm open to dialogue via phone, Discord, email.. whatever floats your boat.

If anyone has any questions or wants clarification on any of the above please call me directly on +61 (2) 8379 3622 during Australian business hours. I always appreciate a chat with fellow traders.

Regards,
Jeremy

 

[Shiro21]

You are just copy and pasting most part of your replies. What I want to see is not client side receipt, which is not real as proven by the fact that the trade passed through so many hands but is not shown on the receipt.

Show me how Gleneagle Securities execute the trade with Vidarr every time I place a XTIUSD trade. Proof to me that Gleneagle really did hedge my trades with Vidarr and not internalized the trades themselves. Or are you not able to show that Gleneagle Securities did place a hedge position with Vidarr every time I place a trade?

Point 5, 6 and 7 shows Gleneagle Securities placing trades with LP as principal to hedge the clients' trade. So show me the broker side receipt of such a hedge being placed by Gleneagle Securities with it's LP when I take a trade on XTIUSD and US30. If you are not able to provide the proof, it shows the Gleneagle Securities never did hedge the clients' position in the real market and took the other side of the trade completely.

Which proves my point that globalprime pass the trade to it's affiliated company Gleneagle Securities, which then takes the other side of the trade, trading against the client and profiting from it.

 

[V_Thabo]

So many information is this thread and it is interesting to read it, I suppose I need several days to finish it
But I would like to show respect for @Shiro21 for such investigation with so many details, details that ordinary users would hardly find.
Another respect for @jemook , this is the first founder whose answers I saw here. He is a fine fellow that defends the honor of his company.
Good luck to you guys

 

[jemook-old]

So many information is this thread and it is interesting to read it, I suppose I need several days to finish it
But I would like to show respect for @Shiro21 for such investigation with so many details, details that ordinary users would hardly find.
Another respect for @jemook , this is the first founder whose answers I saw here. He is a fine fellow that defends the honor of his company.
Good luck to you guys

Appreciate it @V_Thabo

If anyone wants to save the trouble of sifting through 12 pages of waffle (mmm waffles) here's all the links of Global Prime's take on this thread presented in order:

1. On Vidarr, Global Prime & Gleneagle Relationship and our A-book Model
2. Addressing main concerns, How we make money, Global Prime as an ECN broker
3. Educating on trading as principal and the legal relationships of LPs, brokers and clients
4. Further clarification of legal terms, where we disclose about ECN and Non-ECN products
5. Our Trade Flow Process explained in simple steps and how Batch Hedging works

That should get you up to scratch!

Point 5, 6 and 7 shows Gleneagle Securities placing trades with LP as principal to hedge the clients' trade. So show me the broker side receipt of such a hedge being placed by Gleneagle Securities with it's LP when I take a trade on XTIUSD and US30.

Sure, here's a screenshot straight out of PrimeXM backend showing Vidarr as the liquidity provider behind your trade. PrimeXM is our bridge and aggregator which connects our platforms to our liquidity providers and stores all the information behind each trade taken.

https://www.primexm.com/

@Shiro21 I can very easily arrange an email thread with you and PrimeXM who can verify for you that Vidarr was the liquidity provider that filled your trade.

Our Automated Trade Receipts are simply pulling the trade data from PrimeXM which is the source of truth for what happens behind trades. Here's your trade receipt which you sourced yourself from inside the Global Prime portal (what a feature!!).

If anyone is still watching our Automated Trade Receipts is something that needs to be seen to be believed. https://www.globalprime.com/trade-receipts/

You won't find Automated Trade Receipts elsewhere, because Global Prime is the #1 most transparent broker and #1 best rated broker on Forex Peace Army over almost 10 years of trading.

Anyone can see that for themselves on our FPA page here:

https://www.forexpeacearmy.com/forex-reviews/9018/www.globalprime.com

Regards,
Jeremy

 

[Shiro21]

Sure, here's a screenshot straight out of PrimeXM backend showing Vidarr as the liquidity provider behind your trade. PrimeXM is our bridge and aggregator which connects our platforms to our liquidity providers and stores all the information behind each trade taken.

View attachment 66325

https://www.primexm.com/

You were previously saying that when a client executes a trade, it goes from Globalprime to Gleneagle Securities, then from Gleneagle to Vidarr? It does not look that way from this screenshot either.

In your previous post you said the trade is executed using 'Skout', but now you're saying there is one more party involved in between, and it's PrimeXM? At which part of the entire equation does PrimeXM come in?

The trade is executed using Global Prime's FIX engine 'Skout' based on these prices. Execution speeds for Skout are usually around 1ms. There isn't an artificial delay on fills as is the case with b-book brokers trying to emulate real market execution

Is this PrimeXM the external software that gives you the ability to interfere with your customer's trade?

The "client" that this screenshot is referring to is the Broker, who is the client of PrimeXM. So PrimeXM are providing white label license, software that simplifies the process of B-Booking or Book management in general, and also allowing brokers to change between different execution models easily and seamlessly just by changing the setting.

I can very easily arrange an email thread with you and PrimeXM who can verify for you that Vidarr was the liquidity provider that filled your trade.

Our Automated Trade Receipts are simply pulling the trade data from PrimeXM which is the source of truth for what happens behind trades.

That would be good. On top of that, I would also like to request that you to provide the tick and spread data for the US30 and XTIUSD from different liquidity providers like CFH and CMC from the period of July 2020 to March 2021 to reference if Vidarr really have the best pricing as you have claimed. Or that all trades were executed with Vidarr because of its affiliation with Globalprime FX, and all other LPs with better pricing were excluded from the order book because it benefits Globalprime more that way.

 

[jamho22]

Hi @jamho22 -

Thanks for all the kind sentiments, we appreciate it.

The trade flow process is correct for what practically happens in a matter of milliseconds.

What happens legally is different. In legal terms, there are several agreements between entities and counterparties which are required to facilitate trading. The trade flow process would look something like the below:

Note, 'trading as principal' in the case of the below means trading as yourself and not 'as an agent' on behalf of someone else. Principal trading does not mean 'B-book' as Shiro21 has wrongly suggested.

1. Client places trade (as principal)
2. Global Prime receives trade (as principal)
3. Global Prime places trade (as principal)
4. Gleneagle Securities receives trade (as principal)
5. Gleneagle Securities places trade (as principal)
6. Liquidity provider receives trade (as principal via give up agreement with prime broker)
7. Liquidity provider confirms trade to Gleneagle Securities and prime broker
8. Gleneagle Securities confirms trade to Global Prime
9. Global Prime confirms trade to client

In the above example, Global Prime is the legal counterparty to the clients trade. It's at points 6 and 7 where the trade is hedged with a liquidity provider. All of the above happens in a matter of milliseconds.

This can also be denoted as:

Client / GP relationship

1. Client long 100,000 EURUSD at 1.10
2. Global Prime short 100,000 EURUSD at 1.10

GP / GES relationship

1. Global Prime long 100,000 EURUSD at 1.10
2. Gleneagle Securities short 100,000 EURUSD at 1.10

GES / Prime broker relationship

1. Gleneagle Securities long 100,000 EURUSD at 1.10
2. Prime broker short 100,000 EURUSD at 1.10

That is what STP and A-book looks like. A corresponding hedge trade is simultaneously executed across counterparties so there is no market risk arising from clients trading. The order is confirmed in the underlying market for that instrument before it is confirmed back to the client.

The language in the PDS is consistent with the above. The PDS explains things in more legal terms. Its correct but I can see how we can improve it to make it clearer. Hope that helps! But let us know if you'd like further clarification

Batch Hedging

Prime Brokers charge fee's for small tickets - the fee structure is quite complex and costly.

FX trades less than 50,000 (or 30oz gold) are bundled together until they reach 100,000 and then sent to the liquidity providers as a batch trade.

Trades above 50,000/30oz gold go directly to the liquidity providers.

The price that is given to clients is always derived from our liquidity providers. The trade is executed using Global Prime's FIX engine 'Skout' based on these prices. Execution speeds for Skout are usually around 1ms. There isn't an artificial delay on fills as is the case with b-book brokers trying to emulate real market execution.

The 50k internalization and 100k thresholds are the lowest reasonable size to prevent small tickets hitting multiple LPs which would increase trading fees, significantly. The thresholds are trading volume, liquidity provider and prime broker dependent.

What this means is we are only ever maximum up to 100,000 (1 lot) in open exposure on a pair - compare this to most large b-book brokers which could have upwards of 1,000,000,000 (yes 1 billion) in open exposure as they aim to generate profits from market movements.

Our batch hedger is a purposely 'dumb' system as it's intention is to simply reduces the prime broker fees to a level that makes our dealing model more viable.

On the website here: https://www.globalprime.com/best-execution/#small

Regards,
Jeremy

Thank you for your response @jemook . That was very helpful!

 

[doogie]

I must admit most of this thread is way above my head, so i cant comment on how orders/trades are actually filled.
For what its worth, i have been trading since 1988, i have had several brokers, and by far global prime has been my best broker. Been with global prime about 2.5 years, yes there has been minor issues, most were something i must have done wrong, but i must say, every single time there was an issue, every person i have dealt with has gone out of there way to quickly help me and did there absolute best to resolve the issue.
I have never gotten the feeling that anyone at gp is out to get my money, in fact gp has the best mentor program i have ever seen, which is helping me to be a profitable trader.
I feel sorry for shiro21, but in my opinion, if you are not happy trading at gp, you will have a very hard time finding a broker you will be happy with.
And i must say shiro21, shame on you for picking on gp, if you had gone on gp discord, you would find a lot of happy traders, and i believe whatever issues you have with gp could have been resolved in a more positive way. In the end, i am sure gp will prove that the trades were filled the way that gp said they are filled.
Doogie

 

[The Punisher]

I must admit most of this thread is way above my head, so i cant comment on how orders/trades are actually filled.
For what its worth, i have been trading since 1988, i have had several brokers, and by far global prime has been my best broker. Been with global prime about 2.5 years, yes there has been minor issues, most were something i must have done wrong, but i must say, every single time there was an issue, every person i have dealt with has gone out of there way to quickly help me and did there absolute best to resolve the issue.
I have never gotten the feeling that anyone at gp is out to get my money, in fact gp has the best mentor program i have ever seen, which is helping me to be a profitable trader.
I feel sorry for shiro21, but in my opinion, if you are not happy trading at gp, you will have a very hard time finding a broker you will be happy with.
And i must say shiro21, shame on you for picking on gp, if you had gone on gp discord, you would find a lot of happy traders, and i believe whatever issues you have with gp could have been resolved in a more positive way. In the end, i am sure gp will prove that the trades were filled the way that gp said they are filled.
Doogie

I would not call what Shiro21 is doing as picking on GP but instead he is pointing out discrepancies in their terms and conditions. Any user has a right to come to FPA and make posts, good or bad, about a broker. Shrio21 has backed up his claims with many posts and supporting documentation. I am not saying Shiro21 or GP is right or wrong however if everyone only used Discord then most of the general public would never be exposed to any issues with a broker. Also isn't Jim Browning known to be a hacker?

 

[jemook-old]

I must admit most of this thread is way above my head, so i cant comment on how orders/trades are actually filled.
For what its worth, i have been trading since 1988, i have had several brokers, and by far global prime has been my best broker. Been with global prime about 2.5 years, yes there has been minor issues, most were something i must have done wrong, but i must say, every single time there was an issue, every person i have dealt with has gone out of there way to quickly help me and did there absolute best to resolve the issue.
I have never gotten the feeling that anyone at gp is out to get my money, in fact gp has the best mentor program i have ever seen, which is helping me to be a profitable trader.
I feel sorry for shiro21, but in my opinion, if you are not happy trading at gp, you will have a very hard time finding a broker you will be happy with.
And i must say shiro21, shame on you for picking on gp, if you had gone on gp discord, you would find a lot of happy traders, and i believe whatever issues you have with gp could have been resolved in a more positive way. In the end, i am sure gp will prove that the trades were filled the way that gp said they are filled.
Doogie

Thank you Doogie, much appreciated. Our reviews over almost 10 years at FPA are overwhelmingly positive with a 4.7 out of 5 star rating making us the #1 rated FPA broker with over 350 reviews.

I'm glad you are enjoying your trading with us especially seeing that you've been in the markets for almost 40 years!

I would not call what Shiro21 is doing as picking on GP but instead he is pointing out discrepancies in their terms and conditions. Any user has a right to come to FPA and make posts, good or bad, about a broker. Shrio21 has backed up his claims with many posts and supporting documentation. I am not saying Shiro21 or GP is right or wrong however if everyone only used Discord then most of the general public would never be exposed to any issues with a broker. Also isn't Jim Browning known to be a hacker?

Thanks Punisher. I 100% agree everyone has the right to make posts about brokers and it's great that FPA leads the charge in allowing clients to have their say.

There's a huge issue here where many of the accusations labeled on us by Shiro21 are defamatory and tantamount to libel. What you would do if someone was purporting lies about your business?

Shiro21 keeps repeating this outright false accusation:

"Which proves my point that globalprime pass the trade to it's affiliated company Gleneagle Securities, which then takes the other side of the trade, trading against the client and profiting from it."

We do no such thing as I have repeated many times during this thread. Yet he still continues to make the false accusation.

The ironic part is that we are one of the only brokers in the industry not profiting from client losses or running b-books and we are educating traders and exposing the pitfalls of b-books through media and our YouTube series of how brokers make money:

Episode 1: How Forex Brokers Make Money https://bit.ly/3g1eLBx
Episode 2: Forex Brokers Profit from Client Losses https://bit.ly/3sWTnB1
Episode 3: Dealing Desks Exposed! https://bit.ly/31Ta0BK
Episode 4: REAL liquidity VS B-book ! https://bit.ly/39Q5zvB
Episode 5: The REAL REASON Brokers Offer 500:1 Leverage https://bit.ly/3cVP3MP
Episode 6: Why Forex Brokers Profile Clients https://bit.ly/3cWX2ZT
Episode 7: Market Making vs B-Books ! https://bit.ly/3w80OG6

I mean really, how crazy would we have to be to be exposing and calling out an ENTIRE industry while doing the same thing as them? We are regulated by ASIC who knows our profit models (and other brokers profit models) because they poll all brokers once a year for an extremely detailed dive into their operations.

All we can do is show our side and we've addressed all the accusations from Shiro21 on these posts:

1. On Vidarr, Global Prime & Gleneagle Relationship and our A-book Model
2. Addressing main concerns, How we make money, Global Prime as an ECN broker
3. Educating on trading as principal and the legal relationships of LPs, brokers and clients
4. Further clarification of legal terms, where we disclose about ECN and Non-ECN products
5. Our Trade Flow Process explained in simple steps and how Batch Hedging works

We've been labelled as dishonest scammers by Shiro21 while we have the best rating, are the most transparent and actually have an ethical profit model. Yet here we sit next to actual scam concerns of brokers stealing money, not paying out, fake binary options strategies, money stuck at liquidated brokers, pretty girls on social networks stealing peoples life savings, manipulated trades.

Shiro21 had no issue with any of his thousands of trades while trading with us over almost a year of trading. He had every opportunity to come to us with an issue yet he did not, because there weren't any.

Only after the fact when he was done trading did he start his crusade against us just as he did with another broker before us.

@The Punisher cheers for all the good work you do around these parts. I hope you can see our side in defending ourselves from the baseless accusations that have been unjustifiably cast at us.

Meanwhile, where are all the other ASIC regulated brokers representatives showing up when accused here like we have? The silence is deafening.

Regards,
Jeremy