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GUILTY - Case# 2011-015 | traderforliving vs www.fantasydreamteam.com/ea.html

Discussion in 'Guilty Verdicts' started by traderforliving, Feb 19, 2011.

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Based on the available evidence, do you believe that FantasyDreamTeam is guilty?

Poll closed Mar 5, 2011.
  1. Guilty

    126 vote(s)
    96.2%
  2. Not Guilty

    5 vote(s)
    3.8%
  1. traderforliving

    traderforliving Private

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    Original FPA Traders Court Submission by traderforliving:

    I am submitting the case against: www.fantasydreamteam.com/ea.html

    My Case is: I have bought the EA "Two Percent Daily" offered from the website www.fantasydreamteam.com/ea.html. The vendor offered me a money back guarantee if I'm not happy with the results. I asked for a discount and he agree. I asked him, if also with the discount the money back gurantee is stil available and he told me "No problem! Yes the 60 day guarantee is still available. But with this performance you will not need it ;-) Your link: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=JF6YJTL9BHTEY“.

    After the backtests and live forward tests I see that the results are not the same like claimed from the vendor. He send me new settings or new versions but all this don't make the EA even better and continue to loose... The vendor told me always that I can aks a guarantee if I'm not happy.

    After I asked for a refund he deny it, because the terms on his website what I never seen before and told me this is the only thing what count. If you use a discount link the vendor deny any refunds. The only thing was moved to make the purchase was the promise from the vendor, that he offer me the money back guarante also with a discount. It's obvious that the vendor mislead me.

    Also I did some more research, and he has just taken the code from funyoo EA and modified it slightly. In such a case, then a “no-refund policy” does not apply to Fraudulent transactions. If I sell you my neighbor’s automobile, with a “no refund” policy, then I can be sued in court for selling something that wasn’t truly mine (even though there may have been a no-refund policy). Also, if there is fraud, in the marketing of the product, then those statements may be considered by an independent court, when deciding on granting a refund.

    A no-refund policy does not include a “defective” product (unless the words’ “AS IS” is also included). Clearly, this purchase was not “as is”, and in fact the EA’s performance came with a warranty, and the “name” of the EA suggested what a buyer should expect in profits.

    Furthermore, there is the legal term “implied merchantability” of a product, where, a warranty may be “assumed” by the buyer even if not in writing. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implied_warranty for more examples and details.

    On the other hand, a no-refund policy “would” apply, for example, if I sell you my computer, which you intend to give to your sister for a birthday gift, and she doesn’t like it, or doesn’t want it. THEN, you would not be entitled to a refund, based on ONLY that excuse. However, even in that situation, there may be “other” implied warranties, mentioned above, for example, if the computer was stolen property,etc.

    My point is that a contract can be overturned by a court for multiple reasons, depending on the laws of the state or country that you live in. If the terms of a contract are illegal (or non-enforceable) in the State you live in, then they are not enforceable, and subject to other remedies. Contracts are overturned all the time, for example, on the grounds of unconscionability (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability for a better explanation).

    I ask now for a full refund of 400 USD. I hope you can help me to receive it.

    New thread in the Scam Alerts Folder:
    www.forexpeacearmy.com/forex-forum/scam-alerts-folder/13895-traderforliving_vs-www-fantasydreamteam-com-ea-html.html#post57447

    Review is submitted by traderforliving on 02/19/11

    The company was first contacted about the issue on 12/10/10, the last contact was on 02/19/11

    Details: Von: Richard Swaby [mailto:rich*****]
    Gesendet: Freitag, 10. Dezember 2010 21:18
    Betreff: Two Percent Daily EA Discount Offer

    Hi Nino,

    I have been considering your offer and I am happy to tell you that I will take you up on it.

    Here is your exclusive payment link with 20% discount: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=JF6YJTL9BHTEY

    Best Regards,
    Rich.
    www.fantasydreamteam.com/ea.html

    To: rich*****
    Subject: AW: Two Percent Daily EA Discount Offer
    Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 21:45:18 +0100
    Hi

    Thank you very much!!!

    Is the guarantee of 60 days still available ?

    Thanks,

    Nino


    Von: Richard Swaby [mailto:rich*****]
    Gesendet: Freitag, 10. Dezember 2010 21:48
    Betreff: RE: AW: Two Percent Daily EA Discount Offer

    Hi Nino,

    No problem! Yes the 60 day guarantee is still available. But with this performance you will not need it ;-)

    Your link: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=JF6YJTL9BHTEY

    Best Regards,
    Rich.
    www.fantasydreamteam.com/ea.html
    ________________________________________


    Von: Richard Swaby [mailto:rich*****]
    Gesendet: Freitag, 18. Februar 2011 13:59
    Betreff: RE: AW: AW: Two Percent Daily EA / Refund request

    Hello Nino,

    Do you understand the terms that you agreed to when you made your purchase? Do you understand that those terms clearly state that the agreement between us when you purchased does not cover a refund when the EA was bought through a discount link. I have the terms on my site for a reason, and unfortunatly you bought through a discount link so therefore are not entitled to a refund. That is what terms are for, and it is the same if you book a flight or buy something that is on sale (discount) and the terms where you buy it from state that there is no refund for sale items. You cannot ignore the terms I am afraid, they are part of the contract and I am 100% entitled to refer you to them, you should have read them before purchasing and you may not have purchased then because you would have known that your discounted purchase would not be covered if you wanted a refund.

    From here you still have the EA and I am not stopping you from using it. Just look at the statement that I sent you and maybe you will see it will be worth running it longer.

    Regards,
    Rich.
    ________________________________________
    To: rich*****
    Subject: AW: AW: Two Percent Daily EA / Refund request
    Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 13:48:50 +0100
    Hi Rich

    Thank you very much for your offer but I prefer to receive my money back. Please refund me like you promised 400 USD.

    Is this EA « Forex Luger » you want offer me for free? Because I have allready purchased this EA in the past from you for about 150 USD ;-)


    Please send me the refund to my Paypal account : xxxx

    Thanks,

    Nino



    Von: Richard Swaby [mailto:rich******]
    Gesendet: Freitag, 18. Februar 2011 11:53
    Betreff: RE: AW: Two Percent Daily EA / Refund request

    Hello Nino,

    Please find attached graphs of the EA I am offering you ($500) for free. I believe you will prefer this type of trading as it is during quieter market times and has been profitable over a 10 year period. Let me know, I am ready to send it over.

    Regards,
    Rich.
    ________________________________________
    Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2011 10:35:54 +0100
    Subject: Re: AW: Two Percent Daily EA / Refund request
    To: rich*****
    Hi Rich

    I have send you allready all this informations. You have to read the full e-mail ;-)

    Please don't search excuses for not refund me. Otherwise I will opne a new claim through FPA.

    Thanks,

    Nino2011/2/18 Richard Swaby <rich*****>
    Hi Nino,

    Can you please send me the email where I mentioned that I will make an exception for you even though you were buying with discount? I would like to refund you, but my policy is no refunds if it was bought with discount and is clearly stated in the terms of the contract.

    As a compensation, I can offer you another EA that is very profitable and trades during the asian session. It has made consistent profit since 2001 and is worth $500. This EA may suite your trading personality more. Would you like me to send you further details for that EA and a download link?

    Also could I see your trading statement please to see why the EA did not perform for you as I could use it to improve the EA even more.

    Rich.
    Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

    -----Original Message-----
    Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 23:25:42
    To: <rich******>
    Subject: AW: Two Percent Daily EA / Refund request

    Hi Rich

    I have tried so many versions of this EA and all was not profitable in the long run. I'm now tired to try again a new version and see how he will loose money again. And also you have allready agree to refund me (read correspondence bellow).

    So please refund me as soon as possible. I have paid 400 USD. At the beginning of my purchase I ask you for a money back guarantee and you have agree also with the discount price.

    My Paypal address :

    Thanks,

    Nino




    Von: Richard Swaby [mailto:rich*****]
    Gesendet: Montag, 17. Januar 2011 09:19
    Betreff: RE: AW: Two Percent Daily EA / Forward Test

    Hi Nino,

    Sure, no problem. The multiple pair test is just an experiment, and you should run the EA on a seperate GBPUSD account independantly.

    Best Regards,
    Rich.
    www.fantasydreamteam.com/ea.html



    ----------------

    To: rich******
    Subject: AW: Two Percent Daily EA / Forward Test
    Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 07:38:21 +0100
    Hi Rich

    Since this is a new version, will you reset the refund time to 60 days again ?

    Thanks,

    Nino




    Von: Richard Swaby [mailto:rich******]
    Gesendet: Samstag, 5. Februar 2011 12:19
    Betreff: RE: Two Percent Daily EA / Refund request

    Hi Nino,

    I understand your request for a refund. You will have to wait until Feb 25th however, as my PayPal account has been limited until then due to one complaint. Sorry for the inconvenience and I hope you can understand the situation and I kindly ask that you have some patience with me. The PayPal limitation has been a very stressful experience and I cannot do anything but wait until it is removed.

    Regards,
    Rich.

    ----------------


    Von: Richard Swaby [mailto:rich*******]
    Gesendet: Samstag, 5. Februar 2011 12:19
    Betreff: RE: Two Percent Daily EA / Refund request

    Hi Nino,

    I understand your request for a refund. You will have to wait until Feb 25th however, as my PayPal account has been limited until then due to one complaint. Sorry for the inconvenience and I hope you can understand the situation and I kindly ask that you have some patience with me. The PayPal limitation has been a very stressful experience and I cannot do anything but wait until it is removed.

    Regards,
    Rich.
    ________________________________________
    To: rich******
    Subject: Two Percent Daily EA / Refund request
    Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 01:08:59 +0100
    Hi Rich

    Unfortunately I’m not happy with the performance of the new version of your EA „Two Percent Daily EA v5“ too. I don’t have a drawdown in my account but the performance is not so good like you advertised at your website. I think for 400 USD I can expect much more better results. A few EA’s for only 99 USD works even better for me.

    Here the weak results from 2 weeks live trading:

    http://www.mt4i.com/users/megainvest2

    I wish to have my money refunded as per the agreement stated on your webpage. Everything has been adhered to. I am only holding you to your stated guarantee upon which I purchased your EA. I expect to receive a refund having met all the terms for your refund.

    So please send me the refund (400 USD) to my Paypal address : xxxxx

    Many thanks in advance.


    Gesendet: Samstag, 19. Februar 2011 22:17
    An: 'Richard Swaby'
    Betreff: AW: AW: Two Percent Daily EA / Refund request

    Hi Richard

    Of course is this a real proof. You have sent me the discount link. I asked you if I use the discount link, the guarantee is still available. And your answer was : „ No problem! Yes the 60 day guarantee is still available. But with this performance you will not need it ;-) Your link: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=JF6YJTL9BHTEY“

    Every intelligent person in this planet understand that you offered me the guarantee of 60 days with the discount link too. And this is the only thing was count and not what in the terms you wrote. You can ask also your advocate and he will tell you exactly the same. So please don’t insult my intelligence now. Otherwise I have never bought this EA for 400 USD if you don’t offer me any guarantee also not for 400 USD. Your guarantee was the only thing that have moved me to buy your EA. My intention was to keep this EA if the performance are the same like you claimed at your website. But the backtests and the forward live trading don’t matched with your claims. So I asked now for a refund because the EA you have advertised and the EA you sold me was not the same.

    If you are a honest man, so you had to communicate it before I make the payment. So if you have told me, « ok, nino , I offer you a discount, but without refund guarantee », this was was the correctly manner how to treat customers. So I could decide if I accept or not. But this was unfortunately not the case. Instead you mislead your customers if you told « No problem! Yes the 60 day guarantee is still available…, your discount link…..» only to sell your EA.

    Also in other occasions you still told me that the gurantee is still available until the moment when I asked really for a refund.

    Ok, Richard, if you insist that you are in right, although your own advocate will tell you that this is not the case, I will open a new claim and we will see what’s happen.

    Thanks,

    Nino

    Company representatives' emails:
    <rich******>

    Attached Files:

    1. Forexdream 1.pdf
    2. Forexdream 2.pdf

     
  2. vincam

    vincam Sergeant

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    Please read this thread:

    http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/forex-forum/not-guilty-verdicts/13651-resolved-case-2011-002-galina_k-vs-www-fantasydreamteam-com-ea-html.html

    Let Richard know you have read this thread and that you have opened up a similar case with FPA to hope to get a favorable resolution as Galina was able to do.

    He clearly stated that the Guarantee was valid with the link HE provided and then reneged on it later. I was giving this guy the benefit of the doubt in the first case but my benefit is declining...
     
  3. f-man

    f-man 4Xangels Representative

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    The moderator will be inviting Richard to join this conversation soon.

    Richard, I suggest you refund Nino and remove your money back guarantee from your website.

    It is not possible that you have this statement on your website:

    100% SATISFACTION GUARANTEED

    I increase my account by at least 2% daily using this method and I am very confident that you can aswell if you follow exactly what I do.

    If for one reason or another you cannot make at least 2% daily on your account then I will happily offer you a full refund within 60 days provided that you can show me proof of the method not working.

    Honestly I cannot see how you could fail to make 2% a day if you follow the method!



    And then refuse the refund of the money.

    With this statement, you let people hear what they want to hear. Very low standard marketing trick for my taste.

    If I counted right, you have 38 real customers testimonials. That means $19,000. Statistically, a small percentage of the people would publish a positive testimonial, which means you have another few hundreds of customers = $ XXX,000
    If your system works you are also making big money out of your trading as well.
    I don't understand, why you bother so much refunding a fraction of 1% of your customers, who for one reason or another cannot make at least 2% daily on their account

    Sorry for being more aggressive this time, but honestly I did not expect to see another complaint against you. The only thing I expected to see was your system in the performance test, but did not see that either.
     
  4. richard swaby

    richard swaby FantasyDreamTeam

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    So before we go ahead with this, let me make something clear. THE TERMS OF MY SITE STATE:

    Your purchase of two percent daily serves as your acknowledgement and representation that you have read and understand these TERMS OF USE and that you agree to be bound by such TERMS OF USE ("Agreement").

    Refunds are not valid if the Two Percent Daily manual system or automated system is purchased through a discount link, including but not limited to one off promotions.


    What Nino and the FPA are saying is that it does not matter what my terms say? I have to go against them and refund the customer? What is the point in me even having terms on my site? The guarantee has been removed a while ago and refunds are no longer given (stated clearly on site). Even if it was still there, it is clear by the terms of my site that the guarantee does not apply to discounted links. How can anyone argue against that? The credibility of the FPA has to be questioned. Even with SET IN STONE TERMS, the vendor is not protected. That is a complete joke! That is unfair in the extreme and legally wrong. If you book a flight and the terms state that there are no refunds, and a day before you cannot fly, will you expect to get your money back? I cannot believe the FPA entertains this. I stated in an email to the buyer that the 60 day guarantee was still available, if they had they used a non discount link. They used a discount link, so as per the terms of our agreement were not entitled to a discount. The original refund complaint from Galina is a seperate issue, so do not bring that up - she paid $500 and was within 60 days, so got the refund. This buyer bought 73 days ago with a discount link. Never once in writing or any other means did I state "If you buy with a discount you will be able to get a refund". The buyer asked if the 60 day guarantee was still available to which I replied Yes, as it was, BUT NOT FOR DISCOUNT LINKS! Had the buyer asked "Is the 60 day guarantee still available if I purchase with 20% discount" then they would have received a "no".

    There is no case here. If the FPA allow this to go through they are basically stating that the terms of ANY website that the buyer agrees to are invalid. The buyer knows they made a mistake not reading the terms and they have come here because they have seen how I was bullied into refunding Galina and think the same will happen. But this time there can be no arguement.

    P.s. PLEASE REMOVE MY EMAIL FROM FIRST POST.

    VINCAM - I did not clearly state that the discount link was valid for a refund. Where is that in writing? I said the 60 day guarantee was available, but never did I say for the discount link. Also, 73 days have passed since the purchase. The guarantee would be over by now.
     
    #4 richard swaby, Feb 21, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2011
  5. f-man

    f-man 4Xangels Representative

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    The refund guarantee is still there. I have a screenshot of your website next to the dateandtime.com so that you can see the exact minute I logged into your website.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. richard swaby

    richard swaby FantasyDreamTeam

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    No it is not! I took it out. We are referring to the EA here, not the manual method - they are seperate.

    I believe you are looking at the homepage which is for the manual method that is sold via clickbank and refunds are given as per clickbanks policy.

    The EA is on a seperate page and not sold through clickbank (they have a $99 limit on products - otherwise I would not hesitate to sell through them). The EA page has no guarantee and it clearly states that no refund is given for the EA.

    Even if the guarantee was valid, we are past 60 days (day 73).
     
  7. richard swaby

    richard swaby FantasyDreamTeam

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    If the logic of the FPA is that "it does not matter what the terms say", then anyone could put a claim against anyone else! Infact, I may just open an account with every single broker and blow all the accounts. I will then blame the brokers who will refer me to their terms that state "we are not responsible for your losses". But wait, not a problem, I know how to get my money back! I will open a case on the FPA and you will have to give me back all the losses because what you say in your T&C's means absolutly nothing. Will you guys back me?

    GameStation: "We own your soul"

    http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2010/04/15/gamestation-we-own-your-soul/1
     
    #7 richard swaby, Feb 21, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2011
  8. vincam

    vincam Sergeant

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    Hold on a second here Richard, your terms do matter, but this is my question.

    Details: Von: Richard Swaby [mailto:rich*****]
    Gesendet: Freitag, 10. Dezember 2010 21:18
    Betreff: Two Percent Daily EA Discount Offer

    Hi Nino,

    I have been considering your offer and I am happy to tell you that I will take you up on it.

    Here is your exclusive payment link with 20% discount: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=JF6YJTL9BHTEY

    Best Regards,
    Rich.
    Two Percent Daily Automated Forex Robot | Forex Software | Forex Expert Advisor

    Von: Richard Swaby [mailto:rich******]
    Gesendet: Freitag, 10. Dezember 2010 21:48
    Betreff: RE: AW: Two Percent Daily EA Discount Offer

    Hi Nino,

    No problem! Yes the 60 day guarantee is still available. But with this performance you will not need it ;-)

    Your link: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=JF6YJTL9BHTEY

    Best Regards,
    Rich.
    Two Percent Daily Automated Forex Robot | Forex Software | Forex Expert Advisor
    _____________________________________

    Those two links are one in the same are they not? So you tell Nino yes the guarantee is available, here is the link in this last e-mail and then say later well wait a minute I did not mean with that link that I supplied right under the statement where I said the guarantee was available??? I can very easily see how Nino would think from this last e-mail that if I buy through the link Richard supplied in the same e-mail he stated that the guarantee was available, he would be covered. Do you disagree?

    Why would you not send this e-mail and say "Yes the guarantee is available but NOT if you use this link I am giving you, so don't use it if you want the guarantee"

    It is deceptive, intentionally or not, it was deceptive and misleading to state it like that when he asked you that question.

    T&C's have a purpose and everyone must read them but when a specific question is put to you and you make a reply like that it implies that the guarantee is available with that link.
     
  9. richard swaby

    richard swaby FantasyDreamTeam

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    I said the guarantee was available, but I did not state that it was available for the discount link! Nor was I applying that it was. This is against the terms. Nino should have read those terms before buying, it is not my responsibility to constantly remind customers of the terms, I have a page on my site for that. I am sorry if Nino was confused and perhaps the language barrier led to a misunderstanding, but I am standing firmly behind my terms and I have every right to. If he wanted the 60 day guarantee that I said was available then he should have used the full price payment link on the site.

    He asked if the guarantee was still available. The answer to his question is yes, it was still available. He then used the discount link, which the terms state is not covered in the guarantee. SO, the guarantee was still available, but the buyer was not covered as they were using a discount link. Call it a misunderstanding, communication breakdown or language barrier, at the end of the day, I am standing firm to my terms.

    Now please move on to the real scammers, this is wasting everybodys time.
     
    #9 richard swaby, Feb 21, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2011
  10. vincam

    vincam Sergeant

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    Come on Richard, really? That is your right you can stand by them as you wish and public opinion will decide whether that was deceptive or not, but to me it was and I'll bet my left pinky finger that the members will agree.

    The guy specifically asked you if the guarantee was available and you respond yes, here's the link and then say later, no not with that link, it's in my terms. You would feel deceived as well if that happened to you.

    If you go into a store and see a watch behind the counter and ask the guy hey do you guys still have a 30 day return policy in case it craps out on me and he's says heck ya man, but you won't need it, our stuff is flawless. Then it craps out on you and you bring it back and now he says yes we have a 30 day return policy but not on THAT watch, see that little sign in the back it says no returns on silver watches. That's what that e-mail says to me.
     

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