GUILTY Case# 2011-035 | Steve Callaway vs www.appleinvestmentcompany.com.au/

[claretblue]

Given the way things have developed, their behaviour would be seen as "unreasonable" in any proper law system.

 

[Steve Callaway]

Hi and many thanks for all the replies.
Apple are noticabley missing!!

I have heard back from the investigating company with an offer from Mark Power Financial.
I want to discuss this with my accountant before I make any decissions about it and also to see the conditions.
ASIC were going to investigate this further so will be interesting to see what comes of that. These low lifes need to be punished!

 

[marathon42]

Misleading address?

Hi.
I tried looking Apple Investment Company up on whitepages.com.au - Search for an Australian Business, Government or Person. They are not listed - odd for an investment company.
Furthermore, the address stated on the website is:
Apple Investment Company Pty Ltd.
2 Corporate Court,
Bundall,
QLD, 4217, Australia

However, another company at that site has the address:
Brooke Winter Solicitors And Advisors
Level 15
Corporate Centre One
2 Corporate Ct, Bundall

So the level and the centre number are missing from Apple Investment's address. A bit worrying if you ask me.

I have run into this guarantee problem myself with Optionetics. They promise a refund but make it extremely onerous to comply with all the requirements - such as only making trades that have a possible profit that is very high and a risk that is very low. It is impossible to find these trades (if they even exist) so a person (me) just trades the best possibility and loses the chance of a refund. You also have to document every trade with graphs and risk analysis galore. Fine if you have 2 days to place each trade.

However Australia is extremely regulated and ASIC should be able to help you reclaim some monies at least. Check their website for the case against “Safety in the Market” which made claims their software would make you money but then didn’t.

Good luck.

 

[pans73]

Buy the look on the website you had to pay with VIsa or MC, you may be able to lodge a complaint with them cos some cards have gurantee protection for purcahses but check the fine print on your card. If nothing else appleinvestment may get a bit spooked if the threat from there merchant

 

[Equalizer]

I see no problem if a company offers "up to" 24 months for a refund. But, there IS a problem if they set 24 months as a "minimum wait time" to get a refund. It doesn't even sound lawful, that someone can "keep" your money for 24 months (which is enough time for them accumulate hundreds of customers then leave town). Most courts will set aside an "unconscionable" agreement, and look to the Forex industry "common practices" and establish what a "reasonable" amount of "wait time" would be to receive a refund. And I guarantee you it would not be 24 months. :hissyfit:

 

[Nerdie]

Steve, did you receive a receipt for the money you paid AIC?

Also holding your money for 24 months at the compounding interest that AIC's investment company was paying over that time would net the owner's a tidy sum. Frankly, they could afford to give you back your original "investment" in the software and not even blink.

It's interesting to see Shane Andrews is working for Apple again. My last correspondence from him, via his email at KPI, said that KPI and Apple were separate entities (yes, I knew that) and that I should be in touch with my Apple representative. I was - repeatedly - with no result. At least Shane had the courtesy to reply to me.

I've been in touch with Mark Power and Phoenix Global, both very helpful with information to assist me in my research. I passed on what I had as well.

I've also lodged a complaint with the Financial Ombudsman Service and the ACCC ("unconscionable behaviour").

Apple Investment Company's investment reputation was exploited by the FxCalibre brochure - the wording is very similar to the MDA program, and that could and did lead others to buy into the software with the understanding that this "good" company was behind the software thus misleading advertising, as you have outlined in your case.

I'm looking forward to seeing how you go with your case. I never traded because as soon as I opened the software I could see it was much more than push a button. I also knew it wouldn't work on my system, and their sales and support agreed with this, unless they really did have a "virtual system" for us satellite internet and solar power users. They still kept onto me to get going, even though they knew that it wouldn't work. I still haven't received a refund for the software : $9,600

To be fair to KPI Capital (Global Macro Fund) and the actual Apple Investment Company both had protected investments. I made a bit of money on through AIC (through a managed fund) and I'm now in KPI which looks good. The software was a different deal. It's a shame that the software venture brought AIC into such disrepute.

 

[4xmets]

What were you expecting?

First of all, there was another complaint on FPA about AIC.

Second - you buy a piece of software and expect that to make tons of money for you? I mean, what were you thinking? if it would be that easy to program a software to make money then everyone would do it... why do you think forex money managers charge a performance fee and not a one time fee? making profits out of forex is hard work, nothing that an automated software can do (see what happened last week with lots of EA's).
And also there's the thing you get to see on all (we'll most of) forex signals or EA's: "Past performance does not guarantee future results." - and that's a fact.

These days, people trust everything - and they should question everything.

And i mean, why you want your money back? when you go to see a money and you don't like it (or it's not as advertised) do you ask for your money back?

As for the their guarantee... nowhere in that pdf you attached says that if you use their system you will have a guaranteed profit of 13% per month - they only guarantee your purchase price for 24 months - meaning that if in 24 months you don't cover your expenses, only then you can get your money back - 24 months of trading following the conditions set there, starting from the first trade. Furthermore, no loses incurred by autotrading are covered by that guarantee. And as far as i can tell you didn't trade 24 months using their system.

So yea, it won't guarantee nothing and if you find any forex software with guarantees you'll know that it's bogus stuff mate - you can't guarantee anything when it comes to the forex market.

I vote not guilty - coz legally speaking (and trust me, i know what i'm talking about), if you think about it, there's nothing you can accuse them of, you didn't use their software for 24 months you don't get the guarantee. Morally yes, they may have done some false advertising of their software - or the software may work but it got some bad results for the time you autotraded with it.

Anyways, for the future be careful where on what you spend your money - these types of guarantees don't really work (there's no way for a guarantee to work considering the very nature of the forex market).

 

[Steve Callaway]

Buy the look on the website you had to pay with VIsa or MC, you may be able to lodge a complaint with them cos some cards have gurantee protection for purcahses but check the fine print on your card. If nothing else appleinvestment may get a bit spooked if the threat from there merchant

I didn't get that option or I would have lodged a dispute already.
I did an online transfer.

 

[Steve Callaway]

First of all, there was another complaint on FPA about AIC.

Second - you buy a piece of software and expect that to make tons of money for you? I mean, what were you thinking? if it would be that easy to program a software to make money then everyone would do it... why do you think forex money managers charge a performance fee and not a one time fee? making profits out of forex is hard work, nothing that an automated software can do (see what happened last week with lots of EA's).
And also there's the thing you get to see on all (we'll most of) forex signals or EA's: "Past performance does not guarantee future results." - and that's a fact.

These days, people trust everything - and they should question everything.

And i mean, why you want your money back? when you go to see a money and you don't like it (or it's not as advertised) do you ask for your money back?

As for the their guarantee... nowhere in that pdf you attached says that if you use their system you will have a guaranteed profit of 13% per month - they only guarantee your purchase price for 24 months - meaning that if in 24 months you don't cover your expenses, only then you can get your money back - 24 months of trading following the conditions set there, starting from the first trade. Furthermore, no loses incurred by autotrading are covered by that guarantee. And as far as i can tell you didn't trade 24 months using their system.

So yea, it won't guarantee nothing and if you find any forex software with guarantees you'll know that it's bogus stuff mate - you can't guarantee anything when it comes to the forex market.

I vote not guilty - coz legally speaking (and trust me, i know what i'm talking about), if you think about it, there's nothing you can accuse them of, you didn't use their software for 24 months you don't get the guarantee. Morally yes, they may have done some false advertising of their software - or the software may work but it got some bad results for the time you autotraded with it.

Anyways, for the future be careful where on what you spend your money - these types of guarantees don't really work (there's no way for a guarantee to work considering the very nature of the forex market).

What was I expecting
Simply that the software lived up to the claims they made.
They made many statements - in their brochure, on the website and verbally
None of them are true!
eg The ultimate wealth creation vehicle
Planting the seeds for a secure future.
FxCalibre is perceived by many industry professionals as the most elite system available on the market to date.
Trades consistently & profitably
Stated verbally that "because we have a financial services license it has to do what we claim" - (They no longer have a financial services license as of 4/4/11)
Claim to have not had a negative in the last 18 months.
Many other people have had similar experiences - see what google finds

No I didn't use it for 24 months. With one month showing a profit and the rest losses I would have been wiped out before 24 months.
After 10 months I would have had to have a consistent 30% return for the next 14 months to achieve the 13% profit that they have 'documented'.

In other words they have sold me (and many others) the software under false pretenses.

Why would I want my money back?
Strange question! I earned it honestly and paid tax on it and have much better things to do than give it away for something that doesn't do as claimed.
You are right I wouldn't complain about a movie (money?) not being what I expected but that is a minor outlay.
If I sold you a car and when you went to drive away it would only go in backwards would you complain or want your money back?
What it I told you you had to drive it until the end of the warranty until I would do anything about it?

 

[kantungemas]

What was I expecting
Simply that the software lived up to the claims they made.
They made many statements - in their brochure, on the website and verbally
None of them are true!
eg The ultimate wealth creation vehicle
Planting the seeds for a secure future.
FxCalibre is perceived by many industry professionals as the most elite system available on the market to date.
Trades consistently & profitably
Stated verbally that "because we have a financial services license it has to do what we claim" - (They no longer have a financial services license as of 4/4/11)
Claim to have not had a negative in the last 18 months.
Many other people have had similar experiences - see what google finds

No I didn't use it for 24 months. With one month showing a profit and the rest losses I would have been wiped out before 24 months.
After 10 months I would have had to have a consistent 30% return for the next 14 months to achieve the 13% profit that they have 'documented'.

In other words they have sold me (and many others) the software under false pretenses.

GUILTY..!!