GUILTY Case# 2012-056 | Kovacs Norbert vs fxopen.com

[FXCobra]

You are being very sure of yourself my fellow FPA member FXCobra (though much newer member than I) and even to the point of being aggressive with complete disregard to other fellow members' opinion except your own. I used to be that way too when I first stumbled into this site some years back

Well, my opinion still stands that I believe that Kovacs, having eleven (11) long years of trading the forex knows exactly what was happening and he also knows exactly that he would not be allowed to keep the profits due to off-market price feeds.

As to FxOpen being a much better broker than some that I have used, that's from my own personal experiences from having live accounts with quite a numbers of brokers over these last 3 years or so of trading the forex.

Just chill out my dear comrade, there are plenty more worst brokers out there to engage with if you so wishes....and there are loads of them here right here at the FPA.

I am simply voicing my own opinion and I believe I am entitle to that freedom of thoughts & opinion just like you and other FPA members. Unless, of course, you believe your opinion is the only one that counts and hold true!

Have a profitable trading week ahead!

You know that I have nothing against you. We might meet at points and disagree at other points, but for sure we'll not meet on this case point
you might had changed your opinion description or way of replying after 1,225 posts but I do not change because my way of answering is the same from 10-20-30 years(not going to continue to not look at big age) till now.
I express what I think & feel its the right according to my beliefs & experience in any case.
I would not laugh at you or others with compliments words that match your same opinion to get your or Pharaoh or the moderator or any other member satisfaction.
There's nothing like predicting what Kovacs was thinking when took the trades or thought or not if it will be counted or not.
Why should it be like that?! Who decides if it was off-quote or not?! What if Kovacs had only fxopen mt4 running, only getting its feed not any other brokers one, how will he know if price feeds are wrong?! Is he suppose to check his broker price feed if right or wrong or simply TRADE!?
If there are bunch of bad brokers out there, you mustn't compare fxopen to them if you see it not a Scam Broker as the majority of FPA members voted.
What LP Fault fxopen talked about is only a 3-5 pips which lead me not believe that excuse that is more a usual manipulation by fxopen broker than an actual fault of LP that is not my business but theirs.
If you're happy with them, stay there, but personally if I know my broker can at any withdrawal time tell me that there was a LP fault (if it was right or not) and your profits would not be recorded in your account. I'll withdraw my money instantly without having to taste same Kovacs destiny.

 

[FXCobra]

I have been trading nearly 7 years so does that mean I need 4 more years of trading before I can instantly detect my broker's "off-market price feed" when the market is IN session? So according to you sir in 4 years I should be able to recognize price manipulation and gap cheating by my broker?

Can anyone here help me out with the 4 year learning curve and just explain to me how to perform this act?

I want to know because after reading SCAM cases here and especially this Fxopen case, my subconcious mind is seeing many times when this happens daily in my trading....and yes I had an FXopen account for over a year.... so maybe this is not random.. maybe in an eleven year time frame a newbie trader can learn how to battle price manipulation by brokers,LP or whoever it is on the other side of my trade..... cheating is cheating and if that is the market we were born in - we should know this in much less than 11 years into the profession...just my humble opinion..

Exactly, what does trading years have to do with knowing if broker feeds are wrong or right
Unless am a crazy trader who do not skip any single minute without looking at prices feeds from some 10 brokers with wide screens all over my house walls!
Had been trading from 2001, never thought of the idea of looking at several brokers mt4s to find a difference in prices and trade for it to profit.
Started with opening an account with one broker and opened with others as found myself growing Confidently and my trading plan working.
But even with different brokers accounts which I trade each differently, never thought of waiting for wrong feeds or comparing my brokers feeds all day to try find any seen gap, because as a trader my job is to TRADE not guess when the broker-LP will have faults.
And it's a waste of time to do that unless you find your broker manipulating market prices at all hours! Better withdraw your money.

For God Sake, it's just 3-5 pips, by time Kovacs think of using the wrong LP feeds(if it was real like that) price would had changed.
It was not about LP fault for Kovacs to profit, it's his trading skill of small pips and high leverage with good preparation and market helped him, that led to that huge profit.

 

[FXCobra]

That is a technically false statement. Liquidity providers can be ECNs, prime brokers (who may or may not be market makers), or banks (who are market makers).

The FXOpen AU product disclosure statement states:


LMAX is an exchange, which could be classified as an ECN. See FX Trading | Forex Trading | CFD Trading | LMAX Exchange.
London Capital Group is an ECN prime broker. See Forex (FX) Trading | Forex Trading Account | LCG FX.
HotSpot is an ECN. See Knight Hotspot FX.
I don't know much about Renesource Capital, but their web site is Renesource Capital.
I think Gain Capital and Alpari are the only ones who could be market makers, depending on whether they automatically pass on orders to their own liquidity providers, and if they did then they'd be classified as "STP" brokers.
Notice that none of the listed liquidity providers are banks. The banks are inherently the big market makers in the foreign currency exchange market.

Stopped arguing with Fxfrench terms of trading, brokers and LPs when he went offbase with his comments and tried playing games, decided to join the game but my way
Looks like he went too far contradicting between LPs all being market maker, then why does fxopen have an ECN account(as they say).

FXCM is the Biggest Market Maker as I know but not necessary that market makers are bad & ECN or STP brokers are good.

The importance is how they deal with you and give your rights as a trader, when appears at anytime faults from their side, just as you pay(loose) when you mistake.

 

[Jason Rogers]

FXCM is the Biggest Market Maker as I know but not necessary that market makers are bad & ECN or STP brokers are good.

The importance is how they deal with you and give your rights as a trader, when appears at anytime faults from their side, just as you pay(loose) when you mistake.

Hi FXCobra,

You make a good point, but just to clarify for everyone: FXCM uses NDD (STP) execution for forex trades, and we are a market maker for the CFD products when someone trades oil, gold, and stock indices. I agree with your stance that it is important how the broker deals with you and admits faults, etc. For example, even though FXCM makes a market on CFD’s there are no re-quotes.

Jason

 

[Kovacs Norbert]

I think these exchanges of ‘barbs’ serves no purpose here except to raise the temperature a few notches and making the issue here out of context…..and I still don’t know exactly what are we voting here for!

Granted, and 100% agreed by myself, that FxOpen did not honor the off-market prices of Kovacs’ hugely profitable and large lot size trades due to “deliberate price feeds from their LP” but those rights to remove these off-market profits/losses is covered in FxOpen (and just about every other broker out there too) TOS.

However, we must not forget that Kovacs is a very experienced forex trader of 11 years and he will, and should, recognize off-market price feeds when he sees them.
In my opinion, Kovacs knowingly traded large lot sizes and also knowingly know the broker (FxOpen or any broker) would not honor these trades as they are genuinely off-market prices.

In coming here to the FPA to try to get those huge profits derived from off-market prices, Kovacs, in my opinion, is making use of us FPA members to fight for something which he knows he has no chance to win in the first place.
If Kovacs is a virgin/novice/newbie forex trader, then I would believe that he would have no idea that he was receiving false off-market price feeds as even I (with just over 3 years experiences) would probably not recognized off-market price feeds when I see one. And in that case, I might probably sympathize with him. But a highly experienced forex trader with 11 years of trading???
I do not like to be used by anybody for their own agenda, and that’s exactly how I feel about this case and so I will still abstain from voting.

For the record, I still have live trading accounts with FxOpen and I see no reason to close my accounts any day soon as I do not believe that FxOpen is a scam broker. In fact, I would say that FxOpen is very much better than many other brokers which I have used in my over 3 years of trading.

Dear Rahman SL,

-although I believe this case is simple, if you dont know what to vote for, then please DO NOT vote. Others did know the facts and did vote as well. Nevertheless, if you were 100% happy with fxopen, why on the Earth did not vote for them? Maybe because deep down you know they are GUILTY?

I never intended to use anyone in my case, I just simple shared my story at FPA. I truly believed I helped others with my sad experience.And becuase I got many private message thank you note, I not only believe but I also know that I had helped others to stay away from fxopen.

wish you great weekend
---------
I played fair game. I traded what was offered to me.

 

[RahmanSL]

As stated earlier on, I have abstained from voting....meaning I did not vote for or against FxOpen.

You have eleven long years of trading the forex and I am quite sure through these years of experiences, you have seen many quirks and strange going-ons in the forex market....slippages, off-quotes, off-market, etc on almost all brokers' trading terminal.

Your post here does make me more aware of off-market quotes as lately I have noticed one of my present broker giving me immediate profits when I opened a trade and, if I were to (or managed to) closed those trades immediately, I would have immediate profits.
But I now know (thanks to your post here) that these profits would not be honored. And yes, that is covered in that broker's TOS.
I will try to take a screenshot to show here to proof my point.

So, if I successfully managed to close out those trades and that broker deleted those profits, should I too file a scam complaint against that broker??
I don't think so because I know these prices are off-market prices and I would not expect that broker to allow me to keep the profits derived from obvious off-market prices. But just to find out, I will make attempts to close out at least a couple of these trades just to see the reaction of that broker of mine. And then we can compare notes!

As I have mentioned too earlier on, yes, I do 101% agree that FxOpen handled this case very sloppily and is guilty as hell for bad bad public relation and using that horrible word "sue" to a client. And refusing to reveal their guilty LP and also with no apparent action against them, FxOpen is making the bad publicity worse.

Ok, no point in us expounding on this issue anymore as you already got a guilty vote against FxOpen.
Good luck with your claims and trading too.

 

[FXCobra]

Hi FXCobra,

You make a good point, but just to clarify for everyone: FXCM uses NDD (STP) execution for forex trades, and we are a market maker for the CFD products when someone trades oil, gold, and stock indices. I agree with your stance that it is important how the broker deals with you and admits faults, etc. For example, even though FXCM makes a market on CFD’s there are no re-quotes.

Jason

Hi Jason Rogers,

Absolutely Agree with this Intelligent reply. But the experiment or test is always in the application if such problem appears.

In my long trading years, tried many brokers that name themselves STP & Market Makers who you can't as a trader trade normally with their mt4.

Like you said, re-quotes that never end with other brokers, almost for every order you open unless the market prices are like stall, but during active volatility sessions consistent re-quotes that makes you not able to open or close an order at same price you want(very disturbing) which lead me to withdraw my money from my accounts with those brokers.

 

[FXCobra]

I am real surprised when some traders say they know that their broker might cancel an order or a dozen for some off-quote reasons but they are happy with that broker and will not take a trade in such times of wrong prices(do not know how they can guess that unless comparing with other brokers that is a waste of time!!) or will not close the order unless prices come back to normal!
What a joke Why should you trade under such bad broker service, when you know that your broker have all those problems why do you stay with??? Till you face same Kovacs destiny!!
There are no Reputable brokers left in the world!?!, to hold on an offquote & LP fault broker(with an agreement that protects it too!!!), besides fxopen spreads are nothing encouraging but very normal if not high comparing all pairs spreads.
There are excellent brokers found who didn't ever experience with them any re-quote but at same price I want if not better, other brokers you might face some slippage and can be solved by sometimes pending orders adjusting take profit and stop loss to the nearest pip.

 

[Albert Kyalo]

Guilty!!!! All this explanation is what we know before we start trading. So give us a solid explanation not quoting agreements that protect you not clients!!! Who are you fxopen if you cant fight for your clients under this competitive brokers world??? Just answer me please