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Hawk Eye TS from Gryphon Learning

Discussion in 'General Forex Talk' started by Nerdie, Jul 18, 2011.

  1. Nerdie

    Nerdie Corporal

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    Hawk Eye Trading System (upgraded) is being promoted through information events. One was held recently on the Gold Coast in Australia.

    This automated trading system was my first intro to Forex Trading, way back in 2009. I was invited to invest in a trading syndicate which was deriving its ROI from Hawk Eye TS, also known as Phoenix AI, from Gryphon Learning Pty Ltd.

    Gryphon Learning Pty Ltd were a Registered Training Organisation who had been in business for 10 years. They are still an RTO and also AFSL. They offer formal qualifications and are accredited as a training organisation on the ASIC site. Gryphon Learning: Financial education course-types

    This all sounds good.

    Then I review the ROI figures that their automated trading platform was generating in 2009. I was shown how an investment of $10,000 would yield $196,000 in two years using this system. Sounds unbelievable to me now, but at the time a lot of people believed it, especially people inexperienced with Forex style investment and more especially when the information was delivered by a professional adviser that they trusted.

    That doesn't sit right for me coming from an experienced company with so much credibility.

    My information is that between 2009 and the present they had work to do on the software to make the automated trading work more reliably. In June 2011 the revised software was launched. Gryphon Learning: Hawkeye TS release 3.8
    The site looks solid and conservative, with none of the glamour shots so often found on Forex product sites.

    Balance that against the Free Information events being held around the country. One of these was held at Radisson Palm Meadows and the products on offer, reported on this site. Gryphon Learning Hawk Eye TS - Aussie Stock Forums
    (Post #13) (worth reading & enlightening IMHO)

    The products offered included:
    Training products at different levels - expensive
    Access to a managed fund for trained candidates
    Lack of proven trading figures using Hawk Eye TS 3.8

    Elsewhere I have read about the automated trading, the MLM of the product and the spectacular ROI figures.

    My concern, especially on the Gold Coast, is the appeal that this would have for inexperienced investors, especially with the terrible real estate picture here. There are extraordinary properties being listed for sale at reduced prices in large numbers here. There are also a lot of vulnerable people who need to get out of financial strife in a hurry who can't sell their properties due to the glut.

    Maybe this is a genuinely good product from a real training company. I know a lot of people seem to have believed that in 2009. Maybe I'm just cynical after dealing with Apple Investment Company and others.

    Has anyone else had experience with Gryphon Learning, Phoenix AI or Hawk Eye TS 3.8?

    And is it possible that $10,000 really can be spun into $196,000 or more in two years' trading using this system?

    Sometimes I don't know what to believe. :confused:

    :nerd:
     
  2. Josarian

    Josarian Recruit

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    Well not sure if its my place to say but.

    Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.

    I had a friend the only closets friend I have give me trading advice he said I should let my bids run and sell when it starts to turn. Hes speaking as a business man who was in business a few years before the asian financial crisis. He said let it run and sell when its about to turn. I put his idea into practice today I made minor money, however this is where it tips. I patiently wait and then the next thing I know the thing drops 20 pips and keeps drop until I ended up losing 15 bucks (thankfully I didnt have a larger bid on it).

    My method was just watch for trends, news feeds, and take in account forecasts. I made 10 bucks so I was still in the positive. But thanks to a simple blundered move by me and listening to him I am now only recovering from the red.
     
  3. Nerdie

    Nerdie Corporal

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    Capital preservation and other financial myths



    I think that this year has been about believing nothing, not even numbers in the bank!

    I told a financial advisor when I get my refund from Apple Investment Company that I'm going to draw the entire amount out of the bank, put it on my desk and check that it's real and then convert the lot to pure gold coins and bury it on my property. I don't trust the Australian Financial Services Industry at all.

    I'm keeping an eye on gold prices in the hope that it will dip about the time that I get my refund. So far it's not dipping enough, which says something about investor confidence in anything but gold. Now that "bricks and mortar" have been savaged by the media gold and other "real" investments are all that is left that probably will appreciate over time. Everything else seems subject to interpretation, market forces, regulations, what the chairman had for lunch and public sentiment flavour of the month politics. At present Carbon is the big issue around the barbecues. No one wants to talk about investment here - it's anyone's guess where it will all end. Looks like GFC2 has struck at last.

    On the subject of investor confidence don't believe anyone who tells you that an investment is capital guaranteed. I've discovered that the capital can be eroded by a drop in the per unit values which effectively devalues the investment. In reality this destroys a chunk of the capital as well. It's just happened to me with KPI Capital. I still don't know what the losses are or when I may see what is left of my investment. No one will tell me.

    According to the PDS redemption is paid within 14 days of the end of the quarter. That would have been 14th July. So where is it? There was some talk of me having to understand that the fund banking is in New Zealand. So is it there collecting interest? If so how long has it been sitting there and who gets the interest? Anyway, I do electronic transfers internationally via internet and they happen overnight. It takes 3 hours by plane from here across the "ditch" to Auckland, New Zealand. What's my money got to do - swim from NZ? Don't insult my intelligence. Give me a real reason, people.

    As for the loss I did receive a memo about the devaluation resulting from the financial problems in Greece and the fear that the EU would be nervous, or something like that. From memory the ROI / performance was pretty shaky before any Greece/EU issues. Investors were encouraged to stay with KPI Capital as this is a long term investment proposition. Yeah, right, as if I'm going to stick around to find out how much worse things can get? My money would have been better off in the bank collecting interest at 6.5% pa, which is where it would have been if anyone had had any respect for my right to withdraw my money. The fund manager sent me a little gem about how his business was "only trying to protect me from myself" by keeping my money invested in a where it is losing money. I'm still stunned by that little number. I got a reality check from a couple of colleagues about whether they thought I had a few kangaroos loose in the top paddock (translation:crazy) No, they said there was no evidence to support that idea, at least as far as I'm concerned. That has only served to increase my determination to get my money out of the hands of anyone who thinks losing money is preferable investment to letting me do something sensible with it e.g. use the income to keep my phone connected, insure my car and prevent my home from becoming "mortgagee in possession".

    I noticed that KPI Capital have stopped displaying their "performance" on their site. That says it all. In order to find out about KPI fund performance one has to apply to their AFS Licencee, Australian Mutual Holdings Pty Ltd for access to this information. Of course as a mere fund member I'm not allowed to communicate with AMH so I have no way of gauging the size of the loss.

    No doubt KPI Capital's "managers" are still drawing their incomes as usual, living it up on the Gold Coast and leaving the idiot investors to wear the loss.

    And to top it all off the fund manager who I asked in writing to take everything of mine out of KPI Capital either didn't or KPI/AMH refused to comply. No explanation for that either.

    Forgive me if I feel like a mushroom!

    I'm taking this to the Financial Ombudsman Service now as this the second time this has happened to me in 4 months involving the same company with my requests for funds redemption screwed up creating financial losses and other more serious personal and business consequences for me. As well as now putting a damages claim for the problems caused by these actions to date I think whomever is responsible for this debacle should be forced to face all their investors in a meeting and undertake remedial lessons in business ethics 101 and fiscal responsibility to investors. And they can come and work on my property for 3 months community service setting up a permaculture farm in return for shelter and a plate of lentils!

    So believing nothing it seems that I am reduced to taking direct action against those who have stuffed up my investments in any way that I can. I will do whatever it takes to get "redemption" now of my financial losses created through no fault whatsoever of my own. I have had no control over my invested money since last year when my request for my money "out immediately" was ignored. This is not acceptable to me, nor, I suspect, to any reasonable adult.

    Let the games begin.

    :nerd:
     
    #3 Nerdie, Jul 20, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2011
  4. Pharaoh

    Pharaoh Colonel

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    If the investment you've been invited into is deriving income from this, ask to see a LIVE statement.

    If someone tries to sell you an expensive system, ask to see a LIVE statement.

    I don't mean a screenshot or any form of published statement. Those can be faked. Either they let you check the account with the investor password, or they login to it themselves and let you sit at the computer and take a look. At bare minimum, you need to check deposits, withdrawals, closed P/L, and floating P/L. You also need to verify that it's not a demo account.

    Either way, chances are that there will be one or more excuses to not show a live statement to you. No matter what the excuse is, don't believe it and don't believe anything else they tell you. Take your money and head in the opposite direction.
     
  5. Nerdie

    Nerdie Corporal

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    The latest information on Gryphon Learning Pty Ltd, home of the Phoenix AI TS.
    According to my report this week Gryphon Learning closed on 30th June 2012.
    http://www.gryphonlearning.com.au/gnew/retail_h.php

    Apart from their training business and information on site, according to my information Gryphon had finally got their managed investment up and running.

    The fund that I had my remaining capital in, through my SMSF, had moved the money into the Gryphon investment without telling me.

    Apart from this being a breach of law (Superfunds are supposed to be investment responsibly and the ACCC classified online Forex Trading machines as online gaming and betting in 2002) I have no idea whether my money is inside the folded Gryphon investment or where.

    The fund manager of the fund that I had invested in has yet to reply to my demand for return of the capital. He had told me in previously that the money was "Capital Guaranteed". I reminded him of that this week. I have yet to get a reply that actually makes any sense to my situation.

    As well since I was last here I had rescinded limited power of attorney to stop the fund manager moving my money anywhere without my knowledge.

    He told me I had to sign the indemnification so his fund couldn't be prosecuted by ASIC or ATO for releasing my superfund money to me.

    I naturally discussed this with ASIC and ATO. They had no problem apparently with my getting my money under hardship provisions in Australia as I qualified. The fund manager would not believe me. So I signed the indemnification and gave the fund manager authorisation to release the money from KPI Capital and put it in my bank account.

    Of course KPI Capital's Fund Managers, Australian Mutual Holdings, required that the fund manager then authorise the release of the funds.

    My letter from him in early April implied that the money would be available in July 2012.

    I wrote to the fund manager in May and June seeking reassurance that he release the funds as I was closing down the superfund through the ATO.

    I had no reply to my emails.

    I waited through July and when the money did not arrive I wrote to his office.

    The fund manager wasn't there but I received an email telling me about Gryphon folding up taking my money with it. And a whole lot of other stuff about the directors having indemnified themselves against prosecution over losses.

    Does anyone know of a class action being planned over Gryphon Learning's managed investment?

    In the meantime with no money the banks were losing their cool over it all.

    I was served with default notices and I've been dealing with the Financial Ombudsman Service and the Credit Ombudsman Service over these.

    ASIC basically stopped writing to me in December last year.

    I've lodged another complaint over the investment situation where I my money appears to be stuck, if it exists at all.

    I'm hoping that ASIC might wake up some time and drop me a line.

    Meanwhile Mark Power Financial Pty Ltd (formerly AFSL for Apple Investment Company P/L and the dodgy FX Callibre) was told off by ASIC, stopped from issuing AFSLs and RLs to other companies and went into liquidation. I still haven't gotten my money back from the Apple Investment Company - I'm trying other ways. Apple Investment Company appear to still exist and trade. I have no idea what they do these days. I intend to find out.

    Australian Consumer support is woeful and very hard to find your way around, as I've discovered. Whatever the regulators are there for very little of their consumer activity is about helping individuals solve their situations.

    I've discovered a non-profit Australian organisation called the Banking and Financial Consumer Support Association Inc (Home) who actually teach people how to deal with Australian Banks and other lending institutions. They help people find their way through the maze of regulators and bring the bank/lender pounding and cross-fire to a halt while everything is sorted out. Membership is cheap as. They are really socking it to the banks, ASIC and others for their illegal and sloppy work and failure to take real care of consumers. They have all sorts of legal and other back up to take class actions for those who have already lost their homes. BFCSA president, Denise Brailey, has been taking on the banks for many years and she has clout. She's addressing the Senate Inquiry into Banking this Wednesday (8/8/2012) afternoon in Parliament House, Canberra. There is a big storm brewing in Australia over the illegal and fraudulent home loan pandemic. BFCSA have members around the world all of whom have had problems with Australian Banks.

    BFCSA also have a large list of people who have lost money through bad or failed Managed Investment Schemes - if anyone has lost money please contact BFCSA and register your loss.

    Basically BFCSA are doing a lot of the work that ASIC don't or won't do. ASIC have the legal powers to bust the fraudsters and scammers but they don't use them. BFCSA have had plenty of fights with ASIC over their mishandling of our reports on bad companies and scammers.

    So there is some hope on the horizon for my lost money, class actions against dodgy investment companies and bad banksters. :)


    Thanks guys for being here when I got back - it's a minefield out there!

    La Nerd :)
     
  6. RahmanSL

    RahmanSL Major

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    Turn USD10,000 into USD196,000 in two years????
    ..hmmm...ok, if you are the patience type, that's possible with some risk to your trading account using the positive swap strategy.

    In order for that to work on a USD10k account, you need to set your Leverage to 1:200

    Be very patience and wait to open a 3.0 lot size short position on GBP/HUF at the 377.0 level
    Your required margin is USD4,691.31 (46.91% of your account balance)
    Swap short: USD82.02 for every day, 365 days a year.

    Wait for one year and then close out the positive swap position with USD29,937.30 positive swaps..

    You now have USD39,937.30 (with your initial investment of USD10k).

    Be very patience and wait for the GBP/HUF to go back up to the 377.0 level and then enter a 15.0 lot size short position.
    Your required margin is now USD23,456.55 (58.73% of your account balance)
    Swap short: USD410.08 for every day, 365 days a year.

    Once again, wait for one year to pass and then close out the positive swap position with USD149,679.20 positive swaps.

    Add that to your account balance of USD39,937.30 and you now have USD189,616.50


    But, not forgetting that if you close out a few pips below entry level, you get USD13.35 for every pip for the first year, and USD66.77 per pip on the second year....which will be quite a lot of money especially if you managed to close at last Friday's closing 350.23 level.
    With that kind of highly possible performances, it will beat any "Get-rich-Quick" scheme dished out by some shady companies.
     
  7. Pharaoh

    Pharaoh Colonel

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    Welcome back Nerdie!

    I'm glad to see you're still in the fight. Make sure to leave these scammers with no where to hide.
     
  8. Nerdie

    Nerdie Corporal

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    Thankyou for writing that explanation out for me - greatly appreciated.
    I wish I had the internet connection to learn trading, after all the exposure I've had to it and access to the best advice and teachers on the planet.
    Love your work :)
     
  9. Nerdie

    Nerdie Corporal

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    Hi Pharaoh,
    Absolutely, to the best of my limited ability, I'm going to fry these ratbags!
    Need to put in some repair work on the "ability" factor and get back at them.
    The regulators seem to be on a permanent lunch break.
    It's up to the unpaid workforce to get the action happening and then shame the regulators publicly.
    Of course living on the fringes of the "Scam Capital of Australia" I'll have plenty to keep me entertained.
    Thankyou for your inspiration and knowledge.
    I'll keep you updated of any further activity of interest to FPA anti-scammers.

    Nerdie :)
     

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