HOTFOREX PAMM managed accounts are DESIGNED TO MISLEAD YOU - BEWARE!

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BEWARE OF THE (managed) PAMM ACCOUNTS WITH HOTFOREX!!! They are presented in such a way as to mislead potential investors into believing that their performance is much better than it really is.

There is a massive loophole whereby PAMM account managers can in fact lose large percentages of their accounts under management, but still have the appearance of trading well, AND being paid handsome sums for it! It's because of how HOTFOREX is set up. The loophole is this:

Hotforex only graphs closed trades in their performance view of each fund manager, and stipulates that PAMM account managers get rewarded according to a high water system based only on CLOSED trades. So what happens? So many of the 'best' fund managers with Hotforex are actually losing heaps of money, except that they never close all those bad trades - they just let them drift indefinitely, knowing that it is absolutely not in their interest as a fund manager to close them.

Imagine this: You're a PAMM account manager. You go ahead and blithely place heaps of trades each day without even thinking about their probability of success - you know that later you can close the ones that happen to be profitable for a profit, and just leave all the negative ones to hang indefinitely. You'll be rewarded a fund managers' fee (usually 30%) each month for all the 'money you've made', even though the equity on your accounts has fallen substantially, month over month, ever since you started trading there! Great system, yes? NOT FOR INVESTORS IT ISN'T A GREAT SYSTEM!

You can go to Hotforex and see all the upward sloping graphs you like. Take the example of their NUMBER ONE RATED PAMM ACCOUNT MANAGER, CO-INVEST:

Forex Brokers |

According to the data at the left hand side, there has been $7,853 deposited into the account (taking into account the small withdrawal) and yet, the equity of the account is currently only at $6,122. And just look at that upward sloping performance graph!!! Outlining a whopping "465% time-weighted return gain". RUBBISH!!! The graph is meaningless, misleading, and designed to fool unfortunate investors like myself into believing that the fund manager is much better than they really are.

The thing is, the fund manager here, CO-INVEST, is still reaping a monthly reward - 30% of all the 'profits' he or she is making. All the while actually LOSING THE MONEY OF THE ACCOUNT HOLDERS through their trading.

THIS IS JUST PLAIN WRONG, AND WHILE PERHAPS NOT TECHNICALLY FRAUDULENT, IT'S MISLEADING IN THE EXTREME.

As soon as I placed my money with this fund money, the equity (actual value) of my account went down to some 77% of its original value - I had BOUGHT INTO the bad open trades on the account and was hence sharing in these losses, from the second I came into the PAMM account. And since then, the account equity has continued to fall! Even while the account 'balance', with its pretty graph and lovely figures (based only the closed, positive trades' has risen by about 35%!!

What a SCAM!!!

Stay away from HOTFOREX in general. I have been reading about their bonus systems, as some people have raised an issue with this - well, I didn't go in for this area of their business as it didn't make sense to me. But rest assured, THIS BROKER IS OUT TO GET YOU IN MORE WAYS THAN ONE. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

MATE I BEEN DISCUSSING AND FIGHTING HOTFOREX REGARDING THIS ISSU AND I AM SURE GOD SENT YOU TO SUPPORT MY STORY AS WELL, I LOST ALL MY MONEY IN PAMM MISSLEADIG SCAM SYSTEM OF HOTFOREX 37K

 

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i am surprised that there are so many threads in scam folder for hotforex, and still they are maintaining 4 star rating in reviews. So people can guess what could be the reason for so high rating.

THRY CANT SHWOUP CUZ PAMM IS A SCAM AND THIRE PLATFROM IS FULL OF SPIKES AND THE GATEWAY TO DEPOSIT IS LAGGING!!!!

 

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Hi

It seems Hotforex has no done any major changes to their PAMM v2 since Jan 03 2014 post. Profit graphs are still represented without open positions, Monthly Gains are drawn without open positions, DrawDown does reflect at all the real DD with open positions in it, Floating P/L history is not traced or drawn (just current P/L is shown). Ranking system is absolutely crazy and most of the numbers presented there do no correlate real situation.

I had a brief conversation with HF support about their PAMM V2 system and how to improve it, but reply was a bit cold. I guess they are happy with the current system setup?? Unfortunately there is some really bad behavior happening and some of the traders are using the system flaws to lure money in to their funds just to raise commission without really doing profitable trading.

Just to give one example from multiple shady funds. Nro .1 ranked trader "KAY- LINK GLOBAL", 112 days trading, Gain 6946%, Abs. Gain 145%, Max DD 5,93%. His current stats: Deposit $220 000, Profit: $320 000 Withdrawals: $38 000, Balance: $500 000, Margin: $64600, Free Margin $-1600 FLOATING P/L -438600. This trader is dangerously close having a margin call. Open positions $-438600.
TRUE PROFIT (not shown anywhere): Profit vs open position is $320 000 / -438600 = $-118600.

https://my.hotforex.com/en/pamm/showDetail.html?managerID=1045759
(just take a look how fantastic his numbers look)


I´ve been watching from side as this trader basically has been running a ponzy scheme where he was sweet talking money in, just closing winning trades and keeping losing ones open. Investors have dumped more money in after these fantastic numbers and this way fund has managed to grow and cover rising Floating P/L. HF numbers and graphs are showing excellent performance, but in real life this guy did not do single penny profit. This guy has been paid from his "profitable trading" and this is straight out of investors pocket. Of course HF will get their share from his trading. Max Draw Down showing 5,93% as in real life we are somewhere 90% + Real life profit somewhere -50%. Now as there is around $200 000 in danger the be viped out you would think they might consider making a bit more transparent system? Would these investors give such funds if DD would be shown correctly or real profit was shown??? Hard to believe.

I hope HF does not get me wrong here. I do like their PAMM system and there is few good traders to follow. At their customer support reply they tried to "help me" giving an advice "not to follow traders with big floating P/L". Yes I agree you should not do stuff like that, but unfortunately it is not so straight forward issue. If you show only current Floating P/L it does not tell you anything from traders past. If trader has open positions for -15% is it safe or not to follow him? Unfortunately you can´t know it if you do not know the past. For example there is one gold trader who has at the moment open positions for -15%, but two weeks ago his open positions was -60%, but of course you can´t know this unless you haven´t followed his open positions manually with pen and paper. I´ll bet you will think twice giving him money if you knew he has over 60% DD. HF Max DD shows 25% for this gold trader.

There is some decent hedge traders that are controlling floating P/L and using it in their strategy, but unfortunately you need to manually track these traders and find out what their true DD is.

I really hope HF would change their system how it calculates profit, monthly gains, DD. At the moment how HF represent the numbers without Floating P/L is crazy. They have all the numbers ready, but they need to do some fine adjusting to them. How the system is setup at the moment feels like a small scam where you need to navigate manually to find out true numbers. For new HF PAMM V2 investors I would advice finding a trader with zero or very small Floating P/L vs. Profit, start small, trader has been around over 180 days. There is some decent hedge traders with controlled open position strategy, but those you need to find out by daily following their trading.

you supportng my theroy and thanks alah , i am sure now evryone ill belive me!!!!!! thanks god

 

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Hi

It seems Hotforex has no done any major changes to their PAMM v2 since Jan 03 2014 post. Profit graphs are still represented without open positions, Monthly Gains are drawn without open positions, DrawDown does reflect at all the real DD with open positions in it, Floating P/L history is not traced or drawn (just current P/L is shown). Ranking system is absolutely crazy and most of the numbers presented there do no correlate real situation.

I had a brief conversation with HF support about their PAMM V2 system and how to improve it, but reply was a bit cold. I guess they are happy with the current system setup?? Unfortunately there is some really bad behavior happening and some of the traders are using the system flaws to lure money in to their funds just to raise commission without really doing profitable trading.

Just to give one example from multiple shady funds. Nro .1 ranked trader "KAY- LINK GLOBAL", 112 days trading, Gain 6946%, Abs. Gain 145%, Max DD 5,93%. His current stats: Deposit $220 000, Profit: $320 000 Withdrawals: $38 000, Balance: $500 000, Margin: $64600, Free Margin $-1600 FLOATING P/L -438600. This trader is dangerously close having a margin call. Open positions $-438600.
TRUE PROFIT (not shown anywhere): Profit vs open position is $320 000 / -438600 = $-118600.

https://my.hotforex.com/en/pamm/showDetail.html?managerID=1045759
(just take a look how fantastic his numbers look)


I´ve been watching from side as this trader basically has been running a ponzy scheme where he was sweet talking money in, just closing winning trades and keeping losing ones open. Investors have dumped more money in after these fantastic numbers and this way fund has managed to grow and cover rising Floating P/L. HF numbers and graphs are showing excellent performance, but in real life this guy did not do single penny profit. This guy has been paid from his "profitable trading" and this is straight out of investors pocket. Of course HF will get their share from his trading. Max Draw Down showing 5,93% as in real life we are somewhere 90% + Real life profit somewhere -50%. Now as there is around $200 000 in danger the be viped out you would think they might consider making a bit more transparent system? Would these investors give such funds if DD would be shown correctly or real profit was shown??? Hard to believe.

I hope HF does not get me wrong here. I do like their PAMM system and there is few good traders to follow. At their customer support reply they tried to "help me" giving an advice "not to follow traders with big floating P/L". Yes I agree you should not do stuff like that, but unfortunately it is not so straight forward issue. If you show only current Floating P/L it does not tell you anything from traders past. If trader has open positions for -15% is it safe or not to follow him? Unfortunately you can´t know it if you do not know the past. For example there is one gold trader who has at the moment open positions for -15%, but two weeks ago his open positions was -60%, but of course you can´t know this unless you haven´t followed his open positions manually with pen and paper. I´ll bet you will think twice giving him money if you knew he has over 60% DD. HF Max DD shows 25% for this gold trader.

There is some decent hedge traders that are controlling floating P/L and using it in their strategy, but unfortunately you need to manually track these traders and find out what their true DD is.

I really hope HF would change their system how it calculates profit, monthly gains, DD. At the moment how HF represent the numbers without Floating P/L is crazy. They have all the numbers ready, but they need to do some fine adjusting to them. How the system is setup at the moment feels like a small scam where you need to navigate manually to find out true numbers. For new HF PAMM V2 investors I would advice finding a trader with zero or very small Floating P/L vs. Profit, start small, trader has been around over 180 days. There is some decent hedge traders with controlled open position strategy, but those you need to find out by daily following their trading.

thire answer would be ( thats a system and we advice you to read the terms Loll ) i support u mate and i lost 37k usd my selfwith hotforex scam pamm

 

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I would like to ask another issue:
If someone use skrill for deposit and withdraw funds with you and then if that trader use his master card for deposit and then if he wants to withdraw vis skrill, you do not allow this! You say you have to withdraw via your master card first and this have to be the amount which was first deposited by this card. Why this absurd rule? Do you have any logic behind this?

you better see my thred, i got alot of hotforex scam and lagging platform and gateway mate

 

[5SSFX]

Hello all.

I found this thread an interesting read.

Firstly, to give a bit of background, we have a few PAMM accounts with Hotfx and I have to agree the way they show statistics can easily lead to people feeling a strategy is far more profitable than it really is.

We do not disclose our funds under management but I will say under HF we have 6 figures (in equity, why I make the distinction will become apparent) so we are "in the game".

Since HF rank based on balance rather than equity gains/drawdowns it is not possible to ever at any time establish the real maximum drawdown - it requires you to attempt to hunt down the Myfxbook.

I have had to do this a few times when some people wanting to connect with our strategies have been connected with other people's and I have then had to look for a way to ensure the investor can accurately determine their risk based on historical results.

In the times when there is no Myfxbook it comes down to simply a case of best guess. I assess a lot of strategies so I am a good "guesser" but for the average person when you see "gains" of 100s of percent and huge balances this looks like money in the bank.

Checking the floating losses and equity percentage might not seem obvious to you, HF do have a disclaimer on their site saying to check equity but it is very small.

Without adding any cynical assumptions the fact does have to be stated, HF display high gains that were usually not made (in a real sense), low drawdowns that were not only exceeded in real terms but the accounts are floating much more than the "max DD" down right now and the strategies used for these are known to be high volume strategies - just facts. I am not making speculations on them.

HF connecting accounts to running drawdowns is outside of the usual practice used.

Connecting accounts to any running trades causes disruption and the accounts will not replicate the results they have been in the past even if it continues since there is the extra variable.

All of our PAMMs are in profit and at high water mark. We never float losses, all trades close in under a day - even still, for us, HF connecting PAMMs to running trades has been a small issue.

In the most notable case they attached 3 accounts while trades were running (We only trade about 3-4 hours a week guys... come on).

The trades closed in profit but the profits were diluted and they did not match the profits on our other accounts (we run various PAMMs on various brokers) - this is not good, very, very not good guys.

Another thing that is a problem is the lock in fees HF allow fund managers to attach.

They will allow fund managers to charge for example 5% if the clients do not trade with them for a month. (I do not know the range of this since we never explored it, forcing people to give us money if they are unhappy is not part of our MO).

Attaching investors to a "ready made drawdown" is quite terrible honestly.

Additionally adding an option of a fee here makes it very undesirable for investors.

When all is combined there is little wonder posts like this appear.

From a cynical point of view, HF presents very high risk strategies as low risk. They present dumy gains as real gains. They attach investors to a loss (and to be fair, I'd assume a profit which is good for new investor but terrible for other investors) and then add the option to fee the client.

It enables a unscrupulous vendor to profit at the expense of others and have their system advertised for them free in the HF top PAMMs.

It is difficult to understand why it is like this and it does have to be said, for the unsophisticated investor it is misleading.

We have tried to talk with our reps about this matter but not seen any resolutions to it.

This has been one of the reasons we have had to decide we can not put high volume via HF, the trading conditions are OK, funds security is good, we do feel client's money is safe with them and we get decent execution most of the time even when we are trading over lots (although this would be split into small positions and should be ToB).

We are held back by the confusing set up though and we have had some clients who have wanted to attach to a low risk PAMM that over 2 years has never drew down as much as the one they end up attaching to is CURRENTLY floating down (as previously mentioned, without historical equity tracking, max DD is undeterminable).

If you are someone just taking a look through the HF website to pick a PAMM manager and you do not have a lot of experience assessing strategies and looking for toxic tendencies, this is a minefield.

If HF wish to act in such a way as to have investors have the best possible information they should update their display settings.

I would respectfully suggest either an equity and balance chart, such as used by Myfxbook or even just an equity only chart such as used by FX Blue.

 

[5SSFX]

Edit, I meant to say " trading over 10 lots"

 

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Dear Sir,

Please note that we disclose all performance statistics including the Equity and the Floating P&L on the respective statistics page.

For example if you go to the page link you have submitted you can see the following information:

Floating P/L

-4842.55

Equity

$5421.14

We always strive to provide the user with all the information they require to make an informed decision and at no point do we endorse one Manager over another.

Your feedback will be reviewed and if deemed that any additions/changes will make the figures clearer, it will be implemented.

Kind Regards,

Venelin Videnov
Official HotForex Representative
venelin@hotforex.com

same answer when they closed 21k usd to withdrawl 200usd!!! WOW

 

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same answer when they closed 21k usd to withdrawl 200usd!!! WOW

I AM WILLING TO FILE CASE IN CYSEC AND I DONT MIND GOING TO WHEREEVER TO Start Pamm case with all traders wana join me!!!! i lost over 35k in pamm my self

 

[5SSFX]

[QUOTE="Red Herring, I would like to ask another issue:
If someone use skrill for deposit and withdraw funds with you and then if that trader use his master card for deposit and then if he wants to withdraw vis skrill, you do not allow this! You say you have to withdraw via your master card first and this have to be the amount which was first deposited by this card. Why this absurd rule? Do you have any logic behind this?[/QUOTE]

This is a standard anti money laundering policy that is used by all brokers I have ever traded with. (Since the laws came into effect)