Ponzi Scheme Managed Account Question - Courtenay House Trading Group

[Akubra3525]

This thread is of interest to me as I too was a little tempted to join this fund due to the monthly windfall/ 'income' it generates, I have a few acquaintances who have invested a substantial 6 figure amount each into this group and talk about the 'additional' 5 figure monthly passive income it has generated over the past 6 months or so.. My belief is if it sounds too good to be true then it probably is.... but there is also a part of me which says ..I hope I am not missing out on a golden opportunity... keen to hear more on this thread.

 

[Pharaoh]

Why is it when there's a managed accounts discussion and someone starts talking about 5 figure passive income, the phrase Ponzi Scheme leaps into my mind?

 

[Brendo]

I think there is a few things here that would need to be checked, but unfortunately it sounds like no one is actually giving the OP any advice on what to do or what to ask, just saying 'buyer beware'.

Here is the question, what Due Diligence do you do before depositing funds into a private company that does this, or anything else really? I'm trying to build a similiar checklist for this scenario.

I was thinking to get started:
Searches for reviews, forums, online complaints - like anything check google for word of mouth
ABN & ACN check with ASIC https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/R...rchRegisters.jspx?_adf.ctrl-state=wt2oyba1b_4
Current & historical company information - details Directors and shares
AFSL check, and if working under another companys AFSL, a quick check on them as well
Searches for disqualified and banned company directors and/or bankruptcies
Searches for complaints to governental bodies
Review of contracts that are sent out by third party (legal advice)

Anyone have any further to add to doing a check for the OP?

I am interested to hear what else people would be looking for to get DD over the line.

- Brendo

 

[Akubra3525]

Why is it when there's a managed accounts discussion and someone starts talking about 5 figure passive income, the phrase Ponzi Scheme leaps into my mind?

Indeed!..Just came across their monthly reports published online. Here is the link:
http://www.amhonline.com.au/courtenayhousecapital

 

[Guacamayo]

That's what led me to be suspicious of their performance, since if that Investment Fund has gone from $1 to $0.213 in one year (albeit using a long-term investment strategy), how are they able to be so profitable using a slightly different shorter-term trading strategy that gives consistent monthly profits?

The key points that Brendo brought up were also ones that I was hoping someone would be able to find some more information on.

 

[Brendo]

That's what led me to be suspicious of their performance, since if that Investment Fund has gone from $1 to $0.213 in one year (albeit using a long-term investment strategy), how are they able to be so profitable using a slightly different shorter-term trading strategy that gives consistent monthly profits?

The key points that Brendo brought up were also ones that I was hoping someone would be able to find some more information on.

That sounds like a managed fund which is under different regulations?

Maybe someone could discuss differences in trading between "managed funds" in terms of buying into unit trusts (separate classification) and "non-managed" funds which are profit targets with individual (ish) funds? I had the impression they are separate things, and regulated differently under ASIC?

-Brendo

 

[Yokoono]

Hi All I'm new here. I've engaged this firm a few times and check their licence, met their staff and 3 traders all qualified in a board room meeting - which you all can do for free. I even watched them trade. I spoke to asic and I met the owner. They have 2 funds, 1 not doing too well then another doing well. I'm yet to sign up as I need to be more liquid. But placing their monthly returns into an excel you can see that they must be making returns otherwise they would of gone bust. Their team is too small to be bringing in more money to cover pay outs like a ponzie scheme. Also they have insurance (I have a copy) which covers crime, embezzlement and ponzie schemes., I also know a few people who have been investors for 5 years and they don't pay a return 100% of the time. I can see the results for and against. Keep in mind some of the best forex companies in the world would laugh at these returns, globally they are not that fantastic.

 

[Brendo]

"Yokoono, post: 270518

Hi yokoono,
You bring up some points I hope you'll expand.

Please cite other forex traders and their returns that make chctg laughable, and post in links directly to that information. You've made the claim so I'm just keen to see where it's come from.

Are you talking about the insurance documents which are the 1 page statement of currency, or do you actually have the policies, as they are very different things.

Why would one not perform and the other one perform well? Same strategy or at least similar?

The ponzi scheme thing, if they are paying 4%, then it'd take 25 months before they churned through your capital. And the cash in at 2%, would take 50 months, providing they paid out every month, which your said you don't. So what do you mean it couldn't be a ponzi? There's literally years worth of time there to get more capital.

In not saying they are or they aren't just seems to be that there's a lot of clarity required to your claims, esp of the OP is going to drop large capital on it.

I'm interested to hear more Yokoono.

--Brendo

 

[Brendo]

Oh and also who did you call at asic, I'm interested to hear who you'd call when enquiring about a company. Have you got a name and department, phone number? Or at least point us in the right direction?

Ta
--Brendan

 

[Guacamayo]

I know that they often offer board meetings where investors can meet with the owner, traders and other staff, however they are still very secretive about their trading operations. Whenever I've asked them previously about their trading strategy, I've been told that its a proprietary discretionary trading strategy of the company (hence the reason that they won't give out more details). But at least they make it known that they don't use automated/algorithmic trading.

I'd be interested to find out more about their insurance setup too. When signing up, I was told that they were insured against fraud, embezzlement, etc., etc., however the documents that I saw intimated that only around 10%-20% of their assets were insured. This was over a year ago, so I'm not sure if Brendo and I are referring to the same documents.