Ponzi Scheme Managed Account Question - Courtenay House Trading Group

[Toldyaso]

For all creditors/investors who were not at the liquidators meeting on the 31st here is the main information for you:


For the first time the liquidators stated unequivocally that Courtenay House Capital Trading Group was a Ponzi Scheme. In previous updates they have used terms such as “has the hallmarks” and “we are still investigating”. No more.


They said they came to this conclusion based on interviews they held with Tony Iervasi and their initial forensic investigating.


The investors (unsecured creditors) are owed $197 million.


GT has recovered $51.32 million which they have placed in a term deposit.


Of the $51.32 million recovered, $29 million is BREXIT money, $21 million is held in a Westpac account (CHCTG) and $1.3 million was found in FX trading accounts.


From 2014 - 2017 GT found CH used funds in the following way: 89% was used for investor capital returns and interest - the Ponzi scheme. 3% went to ‘Persons of interest’, 1% for company expenses, 1% to FOREX trading accounts and 7% was unknown.


The two other “special trades” that were held in November and January were never traded at all, the money sat in the bank for the month.


GT has interviewed Iervasi, Athan Papoulias, Anshul Gupta and some contractor traders that were used by CHCTG. David Sipina denies he was a director and refuses to be interviewed by GT.


The contractors said they only traded $50K at any one time, mainly traded from their home, sometimes lost money, sometimes broke even and were never consistent.


The freezing orders ASIC asked the court to apply are still in place and will be until September 4th. GT is going to seek an extension.


GT are going to court in the next three weeks to ask the court with help on how to handle the BREXIT money. It may be given back (minus costs) or placed in the pool with the rest of the funds. A decision won’t be known for at least three months depending on the court process.


The final payout of whatever is left won’t be made for at least 12 months time.


ASIC is focused on the potential criminal matters and they don't share all their information with GT.


Iervasi has signed a statement saying there is NO money overseas despite what he has been telling investors since this all went down.


There hasn’t been a decision made on whether money that creditors received from CH will be deducted from what they are owed.


A MESSAGE FOR TOLDYASO


I have been keeping an eye on the forum as this has unfolded and held my tongue until now. It is not your fault that creditors lost their money, that some people invested with very little research and that it turned out to be a Ponzi. But let me say you are one of the lowest most miserable human beings in Australia. The fact you call people thick, basically taunt them over their loss and even signed up to FPA with the name TOLDYASO speaks volumes about the type of person you are. You claimed in an earlier post how it was gutting to see people lose their money like this but you don’t seem so gutted judging by the way you've spoken here. While other investors have offered what information and support they can, you have added NOTHING to the conversation other then to gloat about how right you were and to basically say TOLDYASO. There are people out there who have lost nearly everything, who are going to have to sell their home and cars and others who are on the edge of nervous breakdowns and your more concerned with getting on here and making sure we all know how smart you are. (As I said I don't blame you for what happened with CH and YES some people including myself could have looked at this much harder and taken more care). I recall someone in an earlier post saying despite what we all have lost we can be happy with the fact we are not YOU. I couldn’t agree more. I’ve learned a lot over the past few months and if I ever find myself in your position in the future looking from the outside in I will offer my advice, let people know how sorry I am for what they are going through and leave it at that. Not shove it in their face. And if you have a problem with anything I’ve said or would like the chance to call me thick to my face, PM me with a time and location. We’ll see how brave you are.


To Pharaoh: You have put up a lot of good info and it turned out to be right. No one should personally attack you for doing so. In saying that as I wrote above some people are in financial ruins from this and the best you can say when this is confirmed is that some people need to come back to a forum and apologise to you or that idiot I mentioned above? Give it a rest mate.

No point in getting shitty mate, won't do you any good. You were warned but chose to ignore it. Any comments I have made are borne out of frustration at watching people through sheer outright greed 'invest' in something that didn't even exist and with the most basic investigation and common sense would send you running a mile the other way. I know people who have 'invested' in this **** and don't give a crap about others as they have had their money back plus more. I truly hope the regulators can go after these people and claw back the money. To also watch the daft Facebook page evolve with obvious moles from tony and his band of crooks has been annoying. I hope good old tony, everyone's friend, goes to jail for a long time. No point in people feeling hard done by, you got yourselves into it. Pure greed and laziness

 

[AnotherCreditor]

thnx for the info hard to find anything out until the liquidator release the report of the meeting which they havent done yet.

also did they say it will be 1year plus until disbursement of funds ? from my understanding soon as they get final $$ figures together into a report,done all the bank tracing and get a disbursement method approved from the court than they can release funds, the question is how long will the bank tracing and final numbers for 6+years of transcations will take them.

Also i think there will be unhappy people eitherway with how the funds are distributed is why they are going to the high court for approval of any funds being released.

The liquidators said it would be 1 year MINIMUM before a final dividend is payed to credtiors/investors. If courts decide BREXIT should be paid as a priority that will happen quicker.

 

[AnotherCreditor]

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TOLDYASO this is the last time I’ll address you in this manner. I joined this forum to provide an update to creditors who were not able to make the liquidators meeting and to write what I did to you as I was sick you having free reign to say all the things you have been about the group of creditors behind the comfort and safety of a computer screen.


If we have another conversation its going to be in person.


Your response just shows how low you are and how you seriously just don’t get it. As I said in my original post, I’ll take my responsibility in this matter. I could have done more research, asked more questions and looked into CH harder. Maybe we all could have. That doesn’t give you the right to get on here and kick a lot of people who are already down from this financially and otherwise. But thats exactly what you’ve done. The liquidators have estimated there are over 600 investors in CH. And you've just gone and labelled them greedy, lazy and thick. (Something I highly doubt you'd have the balls to do to their face but we might have the chance to find that out).


What you don't seem to get is that these people (while maybe under researched) worked hard for the money they invested and didn’t deserve to be ripped off by Iervasi and whoever else helped him. You say “You were warned but chose to ignore it”. Warned by who? We aren’t all university educated FX traders who new about the game and warning signs for scams going in. Not everyone had a chance to read this forum before it all blew up. Doesn't mean we deserved to be ripped off or need miserable nobodies like you shoving it in our face.


As I said in my first post if sometime in the future I know people who have been caught up in something similar I’ll offer what useful information I can based on my experience or at the very least say NOTHING. I would never turn around and shove it in their and all other investors faces with smart ass posts on the internet. Don’t try to weasel out of this by saying I'm shitty. The way you have handled yourself is pathetic. As I think about it the fact you even signed up to this forum (with the name TOLDYASO no less!) when by your own admission your not even a creditor speaks volumes. The fact you have more posts on this topic then anyone else while offering basically no helpful information further proves my point that you were only ever here to put **** on people who are already down. Real classy. Now I'll take it a step further.


My name is Darren White

My email address is daz_246@msn.com


I’m sick of people using the anonymity of a fake name on the internet to say things I doubt they’d say in real life. As I pointed out above you have had more to say on this forum then everybody else. Now its time to front up. I told you you could send me a PM with a time and location to say what you've been saying on here to an actual creditors face. Now you have my name (don’t bother looking for me on social media. I have none and I was never part of the Facebook group) and email address. PM me, email me or post the details right here on the forum if you wish. AT THE VERY LEAST POST YOUR REAL NAME ON HERE. Back your words up and let everyone know who you are. In four posts I’ve given more then you have in three months and 50 + posts. Over to you.

 

[AnotherCreditor]

For those of you who are wondering why I wrote what I did above, TOLDYASO wrote back to my original post with this:

No point in getting shitty mate, won't do you any good. You were warned but chose to ignore it. Any comments I have made are borne out of frustration at watching people through sheer outright greed 'invest' in something that didn't even exist and with the most basic investigation and common sense would send you running a mile the other way. I know people who have 'invested' in this **** and don't give a crap about others as they have had their money back plus more. I truly hope the regulators can go after these people and claw back the money. To also watch the daft Facebook page evolve with obvious moles from tony and his band of crooks has been annoying. I hope good old tony, everyone's friend, goes to jail for a long time. No point in people feeling hard done by, you got yourselves into it. Pure greed and laziness


Problem is when he quoted what I wrote, he added what he wrote onto my original post, not separating it into his own.

Simple mistake.

I guess we cant be geniuses at everything hey Mr TOLDYASO?

Perhaps you should remember that next time your having a go at a group of people for not picking up on the warning signs of a Ponzi earlier.

 

[Sothatsit]

I think I'd like to echo Darren's words. "toldyaso" lol.
Here's a good story toldyaso. While you have been sitting there being stoked and smug. I invested $250 000 5 years ago. With my returns I bought 10 houses. I paid all of them off. I have substantial cash in the bank and 6 Ducati's and a Mercedes in the garage. I never have to work again. I'm 35. So whilst all of my money invested is gone I can pretty much guarantee I'm richer than you. Happier than you. Have a better looking wife and don't spend hours pissing on other people. And I'm humble enough to admit it. So please tell me again why it was a poor investment choice? Tell me again how much I've lost. I'm completely staggered by a bloke who spends his time in a forum telling everyone how bad their lives are when clearly yours is worse. You're biggest failing is that you were never clever enough to plan and work a system that got you ahead. In the real world we call that "dumb". So enjoy what time you have left. I'm sure someone will track you down and hand out poetic justice. It won't be me. I'll be living my life in harmony and peace. Knowing I'm better than you.

 

[Sothatsit]

Oh and by the way, no one can "clawback" anything I have. Because I did everything legally and have a fabulous accountant what I have is untouchable. Not to mention there is no such law that allows a "clawback" in this country. So I guess you lose and I win. Tell me again how it feels to be a "loser" and "dumb". I certainly wouldn't know.

 

[MightyOwl]

The liquidators said it would be 1 year MINIMUM before a final dividend is payed to credtiors/investors. If courts decide BREXIT should be paid as a priority that will happen quicker.

thanks for the response again, also do you know if the insurance policies were fake documents or actually existed? expecting them to be more than likely fake but i am just wondering if they ever existed to begin with.

 

[AnotherCreditor]

thanks for the response again, also do you know if the insurance policies were fake documents or actually existed? expecting them to be more than likely fake but i am just wondering if they ever existed to begin with.

Liquidators confirmed insurance is real and they have contacted the insurer to notify them of their appointment. That isn't to say that the insurance is going to be paid out, what the terms of the insurance are e.t.c. It would be nice if it came through but don't get your hopes up in regards to the insurance.

 

[MightyOwl]

if anyone gets the results from the ASIC court case early September or the liquidators meeting with high court can you please post the results here

thanks!

 

[Pharaoh]

Fat chance pal.
Given the fact your manners are demonstrably questionable. If I were you I'd be satisfied that you were right and walk on. Asking for an apology? Clown.

If you had take the time to actually read my post, I also made it abundantly cleat that I'm not the only one who is owed an apology by the "Our free money machine is not a Ponzi!" cheerleading squad. The apologies owed are not for being wrong. The apologies owed are for the reprehensible conduct of a number of the cheerleaders in trying to use all manners of insults to drive out anyone who was trying to warn people and anyone who was trying to advise victims on how to file reports. A few of those went so far as to get themselves banned (the "leader" of a certain FB group managing to do so multiple times).

If you want to question my manners in any post I've made in this or any other thread, I suggest you find the post and hit the Report Abuse button so AsstModerator and his team can take a look.

I very much doubt we'll see more than one or two people come back and admit they were wrong. Those who made money want to hide to avoid drawing attention to themselves while praying that no clawback happens. Even without a clawback, some of them brought others in, just in time to lose money. That's going to make for some awkward family reunions. Those who openly promoted the scam even while knowing it was a Ponzi doomed to fail eventually are praying they don't get noticed and brought up on criminal charges. The average person who was just a "true believer" will likely stay away out of sheer embarrassment at being so easily fooled into rudely defending something that turned out to be a lie.