In general, once you pass things over to WinChargeback, it's best to let them be the ones pressuring the bank. This is one reason I generally recommend to try the bank yourself first, then bring in WinChargeback if the bank can't/won't cooperate.
If you want to continue with WinChargeback, write in and let them know that you and your husband won't do anything else with the bank unless instructed to do so by a WinChargeback employee.
Thanks so much for that info will continue but may have to see if they can assist after a few more days of seeing if they will at least look at the details. I mean this fraudulent behaviour from FM Trader is totally unacceptable. I have been approached by Fairfax media (New Zealand) to do an interview in which I hope this will help other people be alerted to this scam.
Please see my attached and updated timeline.
FM Trader
Timeline:
13 January 2017 – While looking for part-time work on Trademe I clicked on an ad at the bottom of the Trademe page on how to make money with currency trading. I then proceeded to research this and decided I might give it a go. I started to fill out my details on the FM trader website then came to filling in credit card details, I stopped. Moments later I got a call from someone from FM trader and he expertly convinced me to give my credit card details and enrol for the US$ 250 training scheme. He said a Broker would call me to train me and show how to do this. At this time I felt I was already pressured in signing up and felt in my gut this was not right.
15th February 2017 – Got a call from a Leo Valentin in the middle of the night offering trading training. Advised that it was middle of night and that he should call during day hours.
16 January 2017 – Got a call from Leo Valentain (possibly fake name) from FM trader in early evening for the purpose of training. He asked me to open up AnyDesk application to get on my computer so he could teach me what to do and then asked me to login to the FM trader account. He was extremely friendly so I naively started to trust he was okay. Then he said how much do I want to earn and how much money do we owe etc. He said it is easy to make whatever I said would be my figure which wasn’t huge.
He then opened my BNZ bank account and asked me about our account situation. At this time my husband arrived and followed the conversation (see his separate witness statement in the Appendix of this time line). The offer was that they would demonstrate to us in a “protected” trade how we could trade our mortgage obligation and, because president-elect Trump getting in the office, this was a unique opportunity with very predicable trade - an opportunity which we could not miss. My husband asked him for the terms of the “protected” trade and he said he would get this to us in an e-mail which never arrived. Anyway he advised a colleague would call us back shortly to demonstrate how to trade. We put the phone down but left the computer on and likely the Any Desk application was still open.
The FM trader colleague Shawn called back a few minutes later to demonstrate how we could get our mortgage of some NZ $250k back in a few trades – my husband listened in on speaker phone. The broker went straight to our BNZ account and asked about our preapproved loan amount account of $119k. At this point I noted that there were changes on our account balance and money was transferred from our savings and our business account into the Visa card account and a Visa payment of NZ$ 19,456 was made in two transfers to FM Trader (NZ $14,412.15 and FM Marketing $5,044.25) and shown as pending on our Visa account.
I started to query this Visa transactions, but Shawn only wanted to get on with demonstrating trading in an extremely hectic and agitated manner and started to play around with our BNZ accounts and transferred our pre-approved loan money from our offsetting account into our on-line account and started asking Rosie to verify a transaction of the $119k amount to FM Trader account with her security key. At this point both me and my husband declared that we did not want to have a demonstrated “protected” trade and that they did not follow their company procedures and also that we wanted the unauthorised Visa money transfer reversed. We stopped the phone call and shut the computer down realising that Shawn or Leo must have completed the Visa transfers likely between the two calls when we were not watching the computer.
Confused about how the $19,456 Visa transfer could have happened without our authority and thinking the Visa call service is 24/7 I tried immediately to call the BNZ to dispute the pending payments but it was out of office hours and there was no reply.
17 January 2017 – Called the BNZ first thing in the morning to see if they could cancel this transaction to which they replied no they couldn’t as the transfer likely has already happened but they cancelled my card immediately.
I then went onto the FM Trader account to withdraw both amounts. The payments were still pending in that account at the time. FM trader advised me that in order to withdraw any money from my FM trader account, I needed to have first these two Visa payments approved. I then provided them with the necessary documents and signed authority in order to set the withdrawal in motion while at the same time reiterating that I did not want to trade and had lost trust in them due to the unauthorised and fraudulent ways they interfered on our BNZ accounts. (See attached documents)
18 January 2017 – I sent emails to the Broker Leo Valentain stating I felt uncomfortable with this whole setup and wanted to withdraw both transactions immediately which he reassured me that I would get it back by the following Saturday (21 January 2016) – (see attached emails)
22 January – 25 January 2017 – Emailed Leo Valentain asking why this has not been withdrawn and deposited as promised on Saturday. (see attached emails)
26 January 2017 – Contacted the BNZ to contact the Dispute Team.
29 January 2017 – Waiting for the BNZ Dispute Team to get back to me. I have also contacted Netsafe NZ regarding this.
30 January onwards – Sent numerous emails to FM Trader and the BNZDT. Also contacted Winbackcharge but then told them we would seek to get bank to get a Chargeback on this and that emailed me back saying then they can’t help me if the Visa Charge back option had been activated. Got a few calls from different people from FM Trader to make me trade. I said I didn’t want to as I had no trust. They became very nasty.
1 February 2017 – Called BNZDT and left message on answer phone. Was called back regarding this and was basically told they can’t do a thing about it. The woman I spoke to made me feel totally stupid and had no sympathy, then cut me off. Nothing resolved.
3 February 2017 – Sent a complaint to FMA regarding FM Trader. They told me they have a warning on their website and that I should seek legal advice. (The warning is not any great help)
7 February 2017 – Email from FM Trader to say they have once again sent a request through to their so-called Management team. I called the BNZ Dispute Team to find out what is happening and of course I had to leave a message for them to call back which they haven’t. Wrote a complaint to the Bank Ombudsman. See below.
Complaint form Bank Ombudsman 7 February 2017
The 17th of January I called the BNZ Visa to find out if they could assist in helping me with a fraudulent debit from my card from FM Trader the night before which was still pending at the time. The advice given was only to cancel my credit card which they did and then sent out another new card.
My issue is that at no time did they warn me that this is an unauthorised company here in New Zealand and that I need to contact the Dispute Team. After a week of trying to resolve this with the company (FM Trader) I realised that it was fruitless, so I then lodged an application to the BNZ Dispute Team. I got a case number (12381937) and was told it would take up to two working days to get a response. I waited for some sort of contact but to no avail. I called them had to leave a message and an employee called me back that day and basically said that they cannot help me with this issue also made me feel incredibly stupid for even entering into this and then cut me off. I don't know where to go with this scam. I have emailed all information to the BNZ Dispute Team but have not had one reply to date. I also called again today but of course it was an answer phone and I haven't heard anything.
I would like for the BNZ to take responsibility for a fraudulent debit from my card and to endeavour to chargeback these two payments as soon as possible.
Copy of my husbands emails as witness to support my case
Wolfgang Scholz
2 Feb (5 days ago)
toLeo.v,support,BNZDT,me
To whom it may concern -without prejudice
I am the husband of Rosie Scholz and witnessed the second part of the phone call on the 16 January 2017 when Leo Valentain and Shawn Wells wanted to push Rosie to try out trading and unauthorised transferred of money from our joint Visa card account to Rosie’s FM Trader account.
Rosie advised me the day before that she signed up to FM trader to learn to trade for US$250. While not happy with this I accepted that she learns and should she be skilfully enough she can use some small sum to try to demonstrate that she can make money with this. So I acknowledge the US$250 was an authorised payment and Leo started the training process under this arrangement.
However, when I came home and witnessed her talk on the phone to Leo and him being on her computer and in particular on our BNZ bank account, I could not believe my eyes. He tried to convince Rosie that his supervisor Shawn would demonstrate to us how in a “protected” trade we could get rid of our mortgage of some $200,000 in a few trades. For this purpose he would need to get his supervisor to call us back and demonstrate. Unfortunately Rosie did not shut the computer down in the time it took for Shawn to call back, potentially allowing the unauthorised transfer of funds by Leo and Shawn.
When a few minutes later Shawn called back he tried to convince Rosie that he demonstrate trading and explored with Rosie what other funds were available on our BNZ accounts. When I noted the attempt by Shawn being on Rosie’s computer to transfer our approved loan amount of $120k and asked Rosie to approve the transfer, I talked to him personally and advised that Rosie wanted to learn first before she trades and not risking our loan and also advised him that he is not following his company’s procedures which advise that no trading should be done without first learning. We stopped his attempt to demonstrate to trade and the conversation with Sean and continued the conversation with Leo with me listening in.
It was in this conversation with Leo that Rosie noted that all our positive balance of $19,456.40 had been transferred to our Visa card account and from there sent to Rosie’s FM trading account by Leo or Shawn. We also noted that Shawn managed to transfer the loan of around $120k to our online account from where it could have been transferred to the Visa Card account and eventually to Rosie’s FM trading account if it would have not stopped by us and the computer shut down.
Following this there was continued pressure put on Rosie in repeat calls by Leo and Shawn, including very intimidating in the middle of the night to start trading obviously with the intent to demonstrate her willingness to use FM Trader services and actually trade. She also was advised to give further personal information in order to allow her withdrawal request from the 17 January 2016 to FM Trading to receive the funds back. She received several times assurances for transfer approval – however transfer is obviously not going to happen reading on social media the many other comments of victims of TM Trader.
Rosie, straight after the decisive call on 16thJanuary contacted BNZ Visa while the transfer was still shown as pending in our Visa account, however as it was in the middle of the night thiswas not within the operating hours although we thought Visa has a 24/7 service. So she officially reported the unauthorised transaction to BNZ Visa first thing the next morning (17 January 2016) and requested charge back. The formal charge back request case numberis12381937.
In line with the applicable VISA Credit Card Charge Back policy we request that the full amount of NZ$19456.40 be charged back by FM Trader (NZ$ 14,412.15) and FM Marketing (NZ$5,044.25) to our credit card.Having not received any FM Trading service with this money and the traders having not followed their own procedures and acted unauthorised, we believe we have a very strong legal case for having this money being recovered under the Visa policy from FM Trader and FM Marketing and request this being actioned without delay.
We will start a very wide social and printed media campaign and involve our local MP and John Key (ex-foreign currency dealer, MP and former NZ prime minister who I happen to know through my work). Also we will not hesitate to start wide legal action including against FM Marketing and in particular Leo and Shawn, who without doubt totally disregarded company procedures and the law.
I have copied all Visa transaction parties in this e-mail and hope to receive a reply from involved parties BNZ Visa and FM Trading and FM Marketing and in particular when the money will be charged back.
Yours sincerely
Dr Wolfgang Scholz
e-mail:
wscholz.nz@gmail.com;
5 older messages
Wolfgang Scholz
Dear Sir/Madam at the BNZ Visa office – Without prejudice This is again to ge...
16:52 (2 hours ago)
Wolfgang Scholz
19:29 (9 minutes ago)
toNWLGBNZD01,me
Please send me and my wife copies of all the transaction which you have undertaken under the above Charge Back Request.
Dr Wolfgang Scholz
From:NWLGBNZD01@nab.com.au[mailto:
NWLGBNZD01@nab.com.au]
Sent:Tuesday, 7 February 2017 4:59 p.m.
To:Wolfgang Scholz
Subject:Re: FW: FM Trader - R Scholz - Visa card charge back request BNZDT 12381937 - getting record straight
This is an automatic reply to confirm that your email has been received by the Disputed Transactions Team at BNZ.
We will be in contact with you shortly, or you can call the team on 0800 930 110 if you require any further information.
Kind regards
Disputes & Payments | Payment Services | BNZHarbour Quays, 60 Waterloo Quay, Pipitea, Wellington 6011, New Zealand
DDI+64 0800 930 110|
F+64 4 474 9038
Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail BNZ
This message has been sent in reply to:
Dear Sir/Madam at the BNZ Visa office – Without prejudice
This is again to get the BNZ Visa dispute team up to date with the latest delay tactics from the FM Trader support team (see e-mail below). In our view the only realistic way is the official Visa Charge Back Request with is between you and the FM Trader bank.
However, what is very concerning is the performance of you people as to date we have received no formal reply on our Visa Card Charge Back request. When do we get the courtesy of a full and formal reply?
Kind regards
Dr Wolfgang Scholz
From: docs@fmtrader.com[
mailto:docs@fmtrader.com]
Sent: Monday, 6 February 2017 9:18 p.m.
To: rosie.scholz083@gmail.com;
wscholz.nz@gmail.com
Subject: RE: FM Trader - R Scholz - Visa card charge back request BNZDT 12381937 - getting record straight
Dear Rosie and Wolfgang,
Thank you for your email.
We have received all the information and we are checking everything with the management department in order to have your broker process the withdrawal request.
As soon as we have any update we will let you know.
Please, for any question, you can contact us again.
Sincerely yours,
Melody Roberts
Support Team
UK: +44-2031-500284
