Peter Schouten, Sep 8, 14:30 IDT:
+500 takes your money claiming the price went different than it actually did, not backed up by any proof at all. The are free to do as they please and take your money.
LiveChat conversation transcript:
----------
source: WebTrader2
ip: 193.172.150.12
lang: en
page: Menu
email: peterschouten@gmail.com
real: true
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:45:24 pm Europe/Helsinki)
Hello. How may I help you?
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:45:24 pm)
Hello, i want to ask you about a closed position this morning
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:45:48 pm)
it is position 1030289605
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:46:09 pm)
it was closed for margin call at close rate 2424, but it has never reached 2424
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:46:31 pm)
I will need a few moments to verify this matter.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:46:36 pm)
In fact, it still isnt at 2424
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:47:41 pm)
Unfortunately, your position #1030289605# was closed due to a margin call.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:48:27 pm)
yes i see that. But it closed at a rate it hasn't reached. Clsoing rate was 2424, but is has not been above 2396
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:50:01 pm)
Hello?
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:50:36 pm)
Just a second, please
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:52:12 pm)
Please note that in the event that your Equity falls below the maintenance margin requirement for all open positions, it means that you do not have enough funds to maintain your position and therefore the position will be closed by "Margin Call".
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:52:48 pm)
I understand sir, but it has not been that high, so i do not understand the margin call. It has not been at 2424
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:53:22 pm)
You closed it 09:01 and it was 2356 then
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:53:59 pm)
Yes, I understand. But please note that we reflect the market as it is, and in some cases the fluctuations of the market are very high.
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:54:13 pm)
bear in mind that maintaining a sufficient equity at any given time, is under the responsibly of the trader.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:54:45 pm)
But why is it not visible in ANY program? The market has not been that high
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:55:05 pm)
It has not been above 2396
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:55:57 pm)
Bear in mind that your position is a sell position
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:56:10 pm)
So you have to look the buy rate.
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:56:44 pm)
In the graphics are shown the sell rates.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:56:52 pm)
I understand sir. I opened it at 2374 and at the moment of closing: 09:01 it was 2356
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:57:09 pm)
So it went short as i predicted
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:57:36 pm)
I even had the take profit installed. I understand slippage, but it has not been at 2424 at all
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:58:35 pm)
Yes, I understand. Please note that the market is highly volatile and an investment in CFDs carries a high degree of risk to the investor
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:58:56 pm)
I do understand sir
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:59:02 pm)
but the rate has not been at 2424
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:59:39 pm)
it has not been above 2396 and at the moment of closing it was 2356
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:00:27 pm)
Please note that the graphics represents the sell rate.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:00:46 pm)
It isn't showing on any graph
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:01:21 pm)
Where did you see the rates?
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:01:34 pm)
nl.investing.com
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:03:19 pm)
Please note that this instrument is a future contract for December.
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:03:38 pm)
In any case you should check the rates on our Platform.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:03:57 pm)
On your platform it hasn't reached 2424 either
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:04:06 pm)
Please note that Plus500's quotes prices with reference to the price of the relevant underlying financial instrument and its spread. This price is obtained from a range of third party reference sources, various nominated independent financial market data providers, who, in turn source their price feeds from relevant exchanges.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:04:56 pm)
i understand sir but again, it has not been at 2424
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:05:20 pm)
Yes I understand.
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:05:28 pm)
Please note that in the event that your Equity falls below the maintenance margin requirement for all open positions, it means that you do not have enough funds to maintain your position and therefore the position will be closed by "Margin Call".
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:05:53 pm)
Please read the info here:http://www.plus500.com/FAQ/Trading/WhatIsMarginCall&hightlight=margin
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:05:54 pm)
Come on... I understand but you mention a rate it has not reached
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:06:04 pm)
i understand what a margin call is
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:06:47 pm)
You closed my position at a rate it has not reached and now you try to claim margin call, what is going on?
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:07:24 pm)
Your position was closed because of the the Margin Call.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:07:30 pm)
Falsely
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:07:39 pm)
a mistake has been made here
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:07:58 pm)
Because you did not have enough funds to maintain your position
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:08:20 pm)
Your equity was -503.09
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:08:43 pm)
that is not true, because i opened the position at 2374 and at the moment of closing it was 2356. It has not been above 2374 before the moment of closing
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:09:25 pm)
One moment,
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:17:26 pm)
Please note that our rate at the moment were as following 08/09/2016 09:01: the sell rate was 2342 and the buy rate was 2424. So your position was closed by the buy rate at this particular moment, because your position is sell position.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:17:47 pm)
That is not true
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:18:04 pm)
It was 2356 at 09:01
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:18:35 pm)
What you are saying can never be true because austria 20 has a 12 pip spread
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:19:57 pm)
Please note that this Instrument (Austria 20) has a Dynamic spred. With the dynamic margin, the difference between the Buy and Sell rates is not fixed and is constantly changing based on recent market data.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:20:24 pm)
And where can i see what you are saying? What graph can i consult?
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:22:43 pm)
Just a moment, please.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:25:34 pm)
ok
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:26:49 pm)
I would like to inform you that once we close this chat your query will be forwarded to the relevant department. You will be contacted via email, once there is an update on this matter.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:27:05 pm)
What is this about?
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:28:07 pm)
Sir, I will escalate your query to our relevant department, and once
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:28:37 pm)
i have their answer I will write you immediately.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:29:25 pm)
Ok. To me it sounds like I will never hear anything again, but thank you for patience and time
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:29:44 pm)
I assure you that we will contact you.
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:30:05 pm)
Thank you for reaching us. Bye. Have a good day.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:30:14 pm)
You to, thank you again.
----------
Any additional feedback or suggestions?
Did you get the answer you were looking for? No, my questions were
So this is the response for "senior management":
Elena, Sep 14, 11:03 IDT:
Dear Peter,
We have reviewed your query and we would like to provide you with additional clarifications on the matter.
You have contacted us on September 8th in regards to your Sell position 1030289605 on Austria 20
stating that the rate in which the position closed was not reached and therefore, is incorrect.
We can see this Sell position closed on September 8th at 09:01 at the Buy rate of 2424 on Margin call since your account's equity fell below the total maintenance margin requirement for this open position in your account (the only open position at this time). Upon the beginning of Austria 20's trading hours on September 8th at 09:00, the first Buy rate received was 2424 - causing your equity to fall below the required maintenance margin. At the time position 1030289605 was closed your account's equity was -503.09 EUR and the required Maintenance margin for the position was 80.72 EUR.
We wish to reiterate that the graph to which you are referring in the correspondence shows the instrument's Sell rates, whilst your position was closed on a Buy rate.
In addition, note that in case you compare our rates to rates of a different source of information, please make sure that the instrument is offered under the same terms offered by Plus500 (same futures contract, if relevant, same source, same spread etc.). Bear in mind that Plus500 offers trading only on CFDs (Contracts for Difference).
Our quotes are based on external and independent providers, which transmit these rates from the recognised market where the underlying instrument is traded and an adjustment is then applied to the market mid-price we receive from our providers in order to arrive at the Plus500 quoted price.
This adjustment is the spread - which can be fixed or dynamic. Dynamic spread is offered on several instruments, including Austria 20, and can change during the period on which your position is open. The spread can be calculated by subtracting the sell price from the buy price of the instrument.
In addition, please note that a part of our instruments (most commodities and indices) are future based contracts, thus the rates indicated on our platform are derived from the price of the futures contract and not the rates of the underlying instrument. You can see the information regarding the futures contract in the link offered in the instruments' Details and in each instrument's page in our official website (under the Details).
We wish to refer you to clause 15.6 of our User Agreement, to which you gave your full consent upon registration -
"15.6. You acknowledge that whilst the Prices displayed on our platform will take into account market data from various third party external reference sources, they are not taken directly and/or exclusively from one source, and therefore may not match prices that you see elsewhere (including prices quoted on stock exchanges). You further acknowledge that the triggering of your Transaction is linked to the prices we quote on the Trading Platform, not the prices quoted on the relevant Exchanges. We attempt to generate Prices on an ongoing basis and to have the currently applicable Prices displayed on the Platform as quickly as possible. However, technical conditions (e.g., the transfer rate of data networks or the quality of your internet connection, as well as rapid market fluctuations) may lead to a change in the applicable Price between the time the Order is placed by you and the time the Order is received by us or the Order is executed by the Platform. In addition, there will be times when circumstances may prevent the Platform from quoting Prices or affect the Prices being quoted. Our prices may differ from the current prices on the relevant Exchanges and you acknowledge that a Transaction may or may not be triggered even though:
15.6.1. an Exchange never traded at the level of your Transaction; or
15.6.2. the Exchange did trade at the level of your Transaction but for such a short period it would have been impractical to execute an equivalent Transaction on the Exchange".
In addition, Clause 15.9. states the following: "You acknowledge that any prices quoted on the Trading Platform are set by us taking into account a variety of factors including prevailing market conditions and trading demand on the Trading Platform".
Accordingly, we do not determine, alter or otherwise influence prices on our platform, while the rates for a given instrument apply to all customers uniformly.
We sincerely hope we have been able to fully clarify to you your query.
Regards,
Elena
Customer Operations Representative
+500 takes your money claiming the price went different than it actually did, not backed up by any proof at all. The are free to do as they please and take your money.
LiveChat conversation transcript:
----------
source: WebTrader2
ip: 193.172.150.12
lang: en
page: Menu
email: peterschouten@gmail.com
real: true
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:45:24 pm Europe/Helsinki)
Hello. How may I help you?
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:45:24 pm)
Hello, i want to ask you about a closed position this morning
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:45:48 pm)
it is position 1030289605
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:46:09 pm)
it was closed for margin call at close rate 2424, but it has never reached 2424
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:46:31 pm)
I will need a few moments to verify this matter.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:46:36 pm)
In fact, it still isnt at 2424
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:47:41 pm)
Unfortunately, your position #1030289605# was closed due to a margin call.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:48:27 pm)
yes i see that. But it closed at a rate it hasn't reached. Clsoing rate was 2424, but is has not been above 2396
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:50:01 pm)
Hello?
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:50:36 pm)
Just a second, please
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:52:12 pm)
Please note that in the event that your Equity falls below the maintenance margin requirement for all open positions, it means that you do not have enough funds to maintain your position and therefore the position will be closed by "Margin Call".
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:52:48 pm)
I understand sir, but it has not been that high, so i do not understand the margin call. It has not been at 2424
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:53:22 pm)
You closed it 09:01 and it was 2356 then
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:53:59 pm)
Yes, I understand. But please note that we reflect the market as it is, and in some cases the fluctuations of the market are very high.
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:54:13 pm)
bear in mind that maintaining a sufficient equity at any given time, is under the responsibly of the trader.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:54:45 pm)
But why is it not visible in ANY program? The market has not been that high
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:55:05 pm)
It has not been above 2396
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:55:57 pm)
Bear in mind that your position is a sell position
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:56:10 pm)
So you have to look the buy rate.
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:56:44 pm)
In the graphics are shown the sell rates.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:56:52 pm)
I understand sir. I opened it at 2374 and at the moment of closing: 09:01 it was 2356
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:57:09 pm)
So it went short as i predicted
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:57:36 pm)
I even had the take profit installed. I understand slippage, but it has not been at 2424 at all
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:58:35 pm)
Yes, I understand. Please note that the market is highly volatile and an investment in CFDs carries a high degree of risk to the investor
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:58:56 pm)
I do understand sir
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:59:02 pm)
but the rate has not been at 2424
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 01:59:39 pm)
it has not been above 2396 and at the moment of closing it was 2356
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:00:27 pm)
Please note that the graphics represents the sell rate.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:00:46 pm)
It isn't showing on any graph
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:01:21 pm)
Where did you see the rates?
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:01:34 pm)
nl.investing.com
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:03:19 pm)
Please note that this instrument is a future contract for December.
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:03:38 pm)
In any case you should check the rates on our Platform.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:03:57 pm)
On your platform it hasn't reached 2424 either
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:04:06 pm)
Please note that Plus500's quotes prices with reference to the price of the relevant underlying financial instrument and its spread. This price is obtained from a range of third party reference sources, various nominated independent financial market data providers, who, in turn source their price feeds from relevant exchanges.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:04:56 pm)
i understand sir but again, it has not been at 2424
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:05:20 pm)
Yes I understand.
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:05:28 pm)
Please note that in the event that your Equity falls below the maintenance margin requirement for all open positions, it means that you do not have enough funds to maintain your position and therefore the position will be closed by "Margin Call".
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:05:53 pm)
Please read the info here:http://www.plus500.com/FAQ/Trading/WhatIsMarginCall&hightlight=margin
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:05:54 pm)
Come on... I understand but you mention a rate it has not reached
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:06:04 pm)
i understand what a margin call is
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:06:47 pm)
You closed my position at a rate it has not reached and now you try to claim margin call, what is going on?
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:07:24 pm)
Your position was closed because of the the Margin Call.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:07:30 pm)
Falsely
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:07:39 pm)
a mistake has been made here
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:07:58 pm)
Because you did not have enough funds to maintain your position
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:08:20 pm)
Your equity was -503.09
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:08:43 pm)
that is not true, because i opened the position at 2374 and at the moment of closing it was 2356. It has not been above 2374 before the moment of closing
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:09:25 pm)
One moment,
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:17:26 pm)
Please note that our rate at the moment were as following 08/09/2016 09:01: the sell rate was 2342 and the buy rate was 2424. So your position was closed by the buy rate at this particular moment, because your position is sell position.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:17:47 pm)
That is not true
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:18:04 pm)
It was 2356 at 09:01
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:18:35 pm)
What you are saying can never be true because austria 20 has a 12 pip spread
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:19:57 pm)
Please note that this Instrument (Austria 20) has a Dynamic spred. With the dynamic margin, the difference between the Buy and Sell rates is not fixed and is constantly changing based on recent market data.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:20:24 pm)
And where can i see what you are saying? What graph can i consult?
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:22:43 pm)
Just a moment, please.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:25:34 pm)
ok
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:26:49 pm)
I would like to inform you that once we close this chat your query will be forwarded to the relevant department. You will be contacted via email, once there is an update on this matter.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:27:05 pm)
What is this about?
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:28:07 pm)
Sir, I will escalate your query to our relevant department, and once
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:28:37 pm)
i have their answer I will write you immediately.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:29:25 pm)
Ok. To me it sounds like I will never hear anything again, but thank you for patience and time
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:29:44 pm)
I assure you that we will contact you.
Chavdar (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:30:05 pm)
Thank you for reaching us. Bye. Have a good day.
peter jeroen schouten (Thu, 9/8/2016, 02:30:14 pm)
You to, thank you again.
----------
Any additional feedback or suggestions?
Did you get the answer you were looking for? No, my questions were
So this is the response for "senior management":
Elena, Sep 14, 11:03 IDT:
Dear Peter,
We have reviewed your query and we would like to provide you with additional clarifications on the matter.
You have contacted us on September 8th in regards to your Sell position 1030289605 on Austria 20
stating that the rate in which the position closed was not reached and therefore, is incorrect.
We can see this Sell position closed on September 8th at 09:01 at the Buy rate of 2424 on Margin call since your account's equity fell below the total maintenance margin requirement for this open position in your account (the only open position at this time). Upon the beginning of Austria 20's trading hours on September 8th at 09:00, the first Buy rate received was 2424 - causing your equity to fall below the required maintenance margin. At the time position 1030289605 was closed your account's equity was -503.09 EUR and the required Maintenance margin for the position was 80.72 EUR.
We wish to reiterate that the graph to which you are referring in the correspondence shows the instrument's Sell rates, whilst your position was closed on a Buy rate.
In addition, note that in case you compare our rates to rates of a different source of information, please make sure that the instrument is offered under the same terms offered by Plus500 (same futures contract, if relevant, same source, same spread etc.). Bear in mind that Plus500 offers trading only on CFDs (Contracts for Difference).
Our quotes are based on external and independent providers, which transmit these rates from the recognised market where the underlying instrument is traded and an adjustment is then applied to the market mid-price we receive from our providers in order to arrive at the Plus500 quoted price.
This adjustment is the spread - which can be fixed or dynamic. Dynamic spread is offered on several instruments, including Austria 20, and can change during the period on which your position is open. The spread can be calculated by subtracting the sell price from the buy price of the instrument.
In addition, please note that a part of our instruments (most commodities and indices) are future based contracts, thus the rates indicated on our platform are derived from the price of the futures contract and not the rates of the underlying instrument. You can see the information regarding the futures contract in the link offered in the instruments' Details and in each instrument's page in our official website (under the Details).
We wish to refer you to clause 15.6 of our User Agreement, to which you gave your full consent upon registration -
"15.6. You acknowledge that whilst the Prices displayed on our platform will take into account market data from various third party external reference sources, they are not taken directly and/or exclusively from one source, and therefore may not match prices that you see elsewhere (including prices quoted on stock exchanges). You further acknowledge that the triggering of your Transaction is linked to the prices we quote on the Trading Platform, not the prices quoted on the relevant Exchanges. We attempt to generate Prices on an ongoing basis and to have the currently applicable Prices displayed on the Platform as quickly as possible. However, technical conditions (e.g., the transfer rate of data networks or the quality of your internet connection, as well as rapid market fluctuations) may lead to a change in the applicable Price between the time the Order is placed by you and the time the Order is received by us or the Order is executed by the Platform. In addition, there will be times when circumstances may prevent the Platform from quoting Prices or affect the Prices being quoted. Our prices may differ from the current prices on the relevant Exchanges and you acknowledge that a Transaction may or may not be triggered even though:
15.6.1. an Exchange never traded at the level of your Transaction; or
15.6.2. the Exchange did trade at the level of your Transaction but for such a short period it would have been impractical to execute an equivalent Transaction on the Exchange".
In addition, Clause 15.9. states the following: "You acknowledge that any prices quoted on the Trading Platform are set by us taking into account a variety of factors including prevailing market conditions and trading demand on the Trading Platform".
Accordingly, we do not determine, alter or otherwise influence prices on our platform, while the rates for a given instrument apply to all customers uniformly.
We sincerely hope we have been able to fully clarify to you your query.
Regards,
Elena
Customer Operations Representative
