Refund issue with Forex4Noobs! (Resolved)

[Rosemarie44]

Hi All, below are the details of my case:


On 30 April 2010 I purchased an online video training course for $297.00 via http://www.forex4noobs.com]. After making payment via paypal I had trouble accessing the course (the site stated immediate access). I was concerned about this so I put a post on the forum expressing my concern as I was new to the site. NickB later posted an extremely rude reply to my post in which he told me to **** off! (posts have since been deleted)

On 2 May I received the following:

“This is Terry, Nick has asked me to help you with this your access problem. Could you please send me your original password and any other reset passwords you received by using the 'forgot your password' option.

I will need this information to resolve the issue.

Very sorry for the delayed response you caught us at the end of our working week.

Thanks,
Terry”

On 5 May I was sent a new password. During the following couple of weeks I went through the videos but did not like the strategy and I didn’t really learn anything new from them. At the time the refund policy on the website stated” My personal guarantee to you - I know my course works but I realise you may have heard all of this from others before. I am not a scammer so I am offering you the chance to decide how great this material is for yourself. So you can discover the freedom you will gain from putting my knowledge to work for you, I am offering a 365 day money back guarantee.. Take the first step to minimizing your losses and maximising your gains by making this investment in your future today!!!”

I sent the following email on 26 May:

“Hi Terry, Could you please arrange for me to get a refund as soon as possible or let me know what the procedure is for a refund.”

On 27 May I received a reply “Hi Rosemarie, Sure, please send a registered letter to the address below. In the letter please include your PayPal receipt number and the address you would like the cheque mailed too.

Address Below:
-----------------------------------
Forex4Noobs
[address removed]
-----------------------------------
Thanks,
Terry”


I was puzzled by this refund procedure so I sent a reply the same day as follows: “As you know, I made payment via paypal so I want the refund via paypal and not cheque.”

I received this response: “We do not do PayPal refunds for tax purposes. We can send you a cheque you will still receive the refund in full. These rules are the same for everybody.

Thanks, Terry”

I sent another email: “Could you confirm what currency the cheque will be in as I'm based in the UK so my account is in sterling.”

I later received this response:

“Hi Rosemarie,

It will be in USD. You paid for the course via PayPal at a cost of $297 USD. It was converted by PayPal to Sterling. So we will send you a $297 USD cheque which your bank will convert into Sterling.

I also want to take this opportunity to ask why you would like a refund? We like to ask so we know if we can improve anything on our side.

Thanks,
Terry”

On 30 June I sent an email:

“Dear Terry

On 29 May I sent a registered letter requesting a refund with full instructions and my contact details but I have not yet received my refund. *Could you check the status of this and let me know when I can expect it.

Rosemarie44”

On 3 July I received this response:

“Hi Rosemarie,

Sorry about the late reply. My wifes just had a baby so Nick has given me a chance to work casually for a few weeks. I just went into the office this morning and went through the letters. Our secretary flagged your letter as not having a valid transaction ID. She thought it was a scam to try get a cheque out of us.

The Transaction ID on the letter was as follows: 8pj091335j1960994c
The actual Transaction ID is: 02L82619GD575033L

I am nto sure what went wrong but we have the wrong ID in front of us. It is very important for taxation purposes that the protocol is followed directly. Now I understand how annoying this can be but please understand we did not make a mistake. We are more than happy to issue the refund as long as the protocol is followed properly.

I am afraid the only recourse is to send a letter with the correct transaction ID. Luckily everything else you wrote is perfect. So if you could just re-write it with the transaction ID above we can mail you a refund instantly.

Nick”

On 8 July I replied as follows:

“I have copied and pasted below the confirmation email I received from paypal after making payment. You will clearly see the transaction ID quoted on the right-hand side so perhaps you could enlighten me as to how I could have provided you with a transaction ID that I was not given.

Yes, I fully understand what you mean about Scams because this certainly bears the hallmarks of one!

Rosemarie44

30 Apr 2010 14:21:36 BST
Transaction ID: 8PJ091335J196094C
Hello Rosemarie **** (deleted),

You sent a payment of $297.00 USD to Forex 4 Noobs (nick@forex4noobs.com)

It may take a few moments for this transaction to appear in your account.

Merchant
Forex 4 Noobs
nick@forex4noobs.com
+61 298235046
Instructions to merchant
You haven't entered any instructions.
Shipping address - confirmed
Rosemarie *****
(address deleted)
London*
(post code deleted)
United Kingdom
Postage details
The seller hasn’t provided any postage details yet.
Description
Unit price
Qty
Amount
NickB Method Forex Course
$297.00 USD
1
$297.00 USD
Subtotal
$297.00 USD
Compensation
$0.00 USD
Total
$297.00 USD
Payment
$297.00 USD
Payment sent to nick@forex4noobs.com

From amount
£198.40 GBP
To amount
$297.00 USD
Exchange rate: 1 GBP = 1.49697 USD


Later that day I then received the following email from NickB:

“Hi Rosemarie,

We are not a scam. You have been a problem client since the very beginning. You bought the course with the intention of refunding. The 0.8% of people who ask as for refunds follow the instructions properly and receive their refund as requested. All over the internet we have stellar reviews and we have never been called a scam. You are easily the most ignorant and arrogant woman I have ever dealt with.

I am so very tired of hearing your name. So for this reason I have instructed my team to send you your refund despite the tax problems it will cause. Enjoy your refund!

I want a refund too though. I want a refund for the level of annoyance you have caused me. I know you’re not able to provide one, so I will simply take solace in the fact that you will never make it as a trader. And you will never make it anywhere in life beyond the sad stagnant point you have so far crawled.

Cheque is in the mail you will receive the refund in 5-10 working days.

Nick”

There were then a couple more exchange of emails that day and this is an extract from the last email I received from NickB “You're right about one thing. It is your prerogative whether to respond or not. However, it is my prerogative whether to ban you or not. I have banned you so from now on your responses are automatically trashed.

Your attitude and composure from the start annoyed me and many of the site members. You act as though I am unique in my attitude towards you. However, many people reacted the same way albeit most were slightly more subdued than me. People who send an email do not open a thread and start to cry and complain after 2 hours.

I am done with reading your emails. Please do not respond further (if you do it will automatically be sent to the trash folder anyway).”

Despite Nick’s assertion that I would receive my refund within 5-10 days, no cheque arrived so on 21 July I sent another registered letter stating clearly both transaction IDs but to date I have still not received my refund. It makes no sense to me that NickB states he is not a scammer, he is tired of hearing my name but yet is still holding onto my money and has now banned me from the site! This is far from professional and ethical behaviour. Insults from someone I have never met and who does not know me is something I can happily live with but his unprofessionalism is very worrying. I have been trying to sever all contact with this site but he has dragged things out by not returning my money as stated. It is highly suspicious that he receives payment via paypal but refuses to use this system to give refunds. Why? It’s not a great deal of money we’re talking about here!

I am therefore seeking your help to get this matter resolved.

Regards.

Rosemarie44

 

[gbenga112]

Open a paypal dispute claim

Since the payment is through paypal,you can open a dispute claim via paypal in-order to get your money back.
Do you have another email addy,since your main email addy might have been blocked? If yes, just use the alternative to send another mail to them and let them be aware you have started a thread on this forum by including the link.
If not,you can open another email addy and send the same message to them.

Good luck!

 

[Rosemarie44]

Thanks. I did think about using another email address but didn't because it maybe that Nick is not a successful trader and therefore needs the $297 more than I do. I did contact Paypal but they do not investigate problems for intangible purchases i.e. this is an online access video course - NickB is probably fully aware of that hence the nonsense about not doing refunds via paypal. Anyway, my conscience is clear because I haven't scammed anyone! Regards.

 

[gbenga112]

Choice is yours

I can understand where you are coming from but if your own side of the story is true( since I do not know Nick's side of the story) and you let him go and other people follow your foot-step simply because the amount involved is small. Trust me the guy in question will move from $297 to thousands and millions,it would be better if he is checkmated now before he starts taking thousands,millions unlawfully from people...The choice is yours to make but you can easily save thousands of others if you follow this issue to a logical conclusion....Good luck.

PLS NOTE:I am not in anyway saying Nick is a scammer but my response/reply is base on your own side of the story.

 

[NickB]

This person has been causing constant issues ever since she first purchased the course.

She made a mistake entering her email during purchase which caused and error in our system. So she did not receive instant access to the course. Instead of typing her emails she copy+pasted it in and it had a few extra spaces at the end.

She contacted Forex4Noobs via the support ticket system at (if I remember correctly) 6pm on a Friday evening. Over the next few hours she proceeded to send about 5 more emails. She also joined the forum and made about 10 posts. She expected an immediate response to fix her mistake regardless of it being 6pm on a Friday evening.

The users on my forum annoyed at her attitude told her to pipe down and wait until Monday. However, she didn't listen she kept causing problems. Eventually I received a phone call Saturday night from a friend. He told me that a customer was complaining and I should come and deal with the issue.

When I got on the internet I gave her access to the course she paid for. I had to cancel my plans that night to deal with her issue. A week or so later, not surprisingly, she asked for a refund.

My staff ended up having problems with Rosemarie's refund as she submitted incorrect details. I instructed my staff to send her the refund regardless of her error. I have just checked with my staff and I can confirm Rosemarie was sent a refund cheque. (EDIT - Cheque was sent on July 9th from Australia)

Right now I am hesitant about giving Rosemarie a refund via PayPal right now as I believe she has the cheque in her possession. If she receives a PayPal refund and cashes the cheque she will get two refunds for one course. I will look into the possibility of cancelling the cheque and if I can do that I will refund her via PayPal.

As a side point I dislike it when people leak private emails. I can confirm the first few emails that show the interaction between Rosemarie and Terry are real. However, the last two emails she pasted that are supposedly from me have been heavily edited by her.

Rosemarie’s despicable behaviour knows no bounds. I find it utterly shocking that she would edit emails to make me look like ‘the bad guy’ and post them here.

Right now I am going to contact my bank and see if I can have the cheque my staff sent cancelled. If I can do that I will go ahead and refund her via PayPal.

Hopefully this will put a close to Rosemarie’s issue.

------

EDIT (added later): My bank has confirmed the Cheque has been cancelled. I have instructed my staff to put in a refund request ASAP. She should receive a refund via PayPal by Friday of next week. It will most likely come through Monday morning though

 

[Rosemarie44]

Nick, do you really think I need to go through all this hassle to try to gain an extra $297? I have being trying to disassociate myself from you but I still have not received my refund.

Extract from an email dated 3 July from Paypal:

“Dear Rosemarie *****

Thank you for contacting PayPal. I am happy to assist you.

I understand that your seller does not want to issue you a refund. I can see how this may present a sense of frustration and confusion on your part. Please allow me to further elaborate and help you resolve the matter in a timely manner.

I understand that the agent you have spoken with regarding the issue has explained that we cannot investigate on cases for intangible items also if the case is filed outside the 45 day timeframe. It is necessary for us to cap the timeframe for opening a buyer complaint. We have found that in most cases 45 days is a sufficient timeframe for a buyer to notify PayPal that they have not received their item, or that there is a problem with the item that they have received.

Additionally we are required to specify a set timeframe in our legal agreements. This lets sellers know that they should keep their postal information and other relevant transaction details for this period. It also reassures buyers that should something happen with their purchase within a 45 day period, they can open a complaint with PayPal.

However, I will still suggest that you file this complaint through your Resolution Center so we can have the case recorded on the seller's account. You may also report the website by sending the URL to euaup@PayPal.co.uk. In this way, we can review the seller's website and if we feel that they are in violation our policy, we will stop them from using our service.”

I can prove to anyone that the emails and extracts I have copied and pasted above are exactly as they were sent to me from you and your associates. In fact, I’m not going to get “phantom” people to put up posts in my defence instead I will forward the emails to anyone who requests them to prove that they have not been edited. It doesn’t matter how many requests I receive to forward these emails - I will honour every request as I have absolutely no reason to lie and I’m not trying to deceive anyone.

Anyone who has a paypal account can check with them their policy on purchases for intangible items. All I want is the return of my money. I have the receipt to prove that I posted the information again on 21 July. I will lay my cards on the table and prove my case not because I care what strangers think but to prove that you are a liar.

I’m not a techie so if anyone can suggest another way for me to prove the authenticity of the emails that were sent to me by Nick then please let me know and I will follow the instructions because I am very very very keen to prove that point so that there can be no shadow of a doubt. Nick, I suppose you’re going to deny telling me to **** off on your forum too?

I can understand why you would be irritated/angry/upset/frustrated/annoyed about me pasting the contents of your emails, maybe because it reveals who you really are. You have my “express permission” to post all my emails (unedited) so that everyone can see just how “rude” I was and please copy your post where you gave me two options - one of them was to take a refund and **** off! If I have “edited” the emails then post the contents of your emails to prove it. This is not the first time you have accused me of trying to make you look bad but you fail to realise that you are doing a great job without any help from me. Thankfully there are a lot of intelligent people on here who will be analysing the attitude and information provided and will decide what really seems logical and truthful.

If a customer is so rude and offensive and being a pain then surely “commonsense” dictates that you give them their money back as quickly as possible to make them go away but for some strange reason you haven’t done that. It’s interesting that you say a cheque was sent (when, proof of posting?) - I’m surprised you didn’t go one step further to say that I received it and cashed it but am still trying to claim another refund via paypal!

Interesting, somehow I managed to send an email to your private email address (would like to know how I got that?) and then you were told that I was complaining but if I had sent you a “private” email you would’ve already known that.

I was sent a new password on 5 May and enquired about getting a refund on 26 May - Nick, that’s more than “a week”!

All cheques can be cancelled if they have not been cashed. I must be a lousy scammer because I haven’t even succeeded in getting back my $297 once let alone twice!

Rosemarie

 

[gbenga112]

@ NickB

I think she published the email conversation as evidence.
From what you said now,the only fair resolution would be to instruct your bank not to honour the cheque and refund her $297 via paypal on Monday.

I will also suggest to your company to make other future refund via paypal because to me even the process of posting,delivery and clearance of cheque is long compare to paypal that is immediate.This will eliminate the issue of scam/cheating from either party.
If your company couldn't via paypal because of tax, then your company should state it clearly on your website (terms & conditions) that refund would only be made via cheque,so if that is okay with the customer,they will proceed with the purchase.

I hope you refund her via paypal on Monday& cancel the cheque. Confirmation of this by both parties would be welcomed & appreciated on this thread...Good luck to you two.

 

[NickB]

Rosemarie, forwarded emails are not proof. I have already seen you post fake emails and forwarded emails are just as easily edited.

I believe Forex4Noobs can stand on its reputation and impeccable record. In 3 years on-line Rosemarie is the only customer who has had refund issues. Right here on FPA there has not been one single refund complaint besides hers.

If Rosemarie simply waited until Monday for a response to her email (sent 6pm on a Friday night) she would have had her issue attended to. Instead she became rude to the point of belligerence towards my staff. So it is no surprise that in 3 years she is the only one to make a complaint.

I am sorry for how all this turned out.

I believe Rosemarie may be trying to defame my site as part of a vendetta she has against me. I do not wish to aid her in stirring trouble so as soon as the refund cheque is cancelled I will refund her another refund via PayPal.

------

EDIT (added later): My bank has confirmed the Cheque has been cancelled. I have instructed my staff to put in a refund request ASAP. She should receive a refund via PayPal by Friday of next week. It will most likely come through Monday morning though

 

[NickB]

I think she published the email conversation as evidence.
From what you said now,the only fair resolution would be to instruct your bank not to honour the cheque and refund her $297 via paypal on Monday.

I will also suggest to your company to make other future refund via paypal because to me even the process of posting,delivery and clearance of cheque is long compare to paypal that is immediate.This will eliminate the issue of scam/cheating from either party.
If your company couldn't via paypal because of tax, then your company should state it clearly on your website (terms & conditions) that refund would only be made via cheque,so if that is okay with the customer,they will proceed with the purchase.

I hope you refund her via paypal on Monday& cancel the cheque. Confirmation of this by both parties would be welcomed & appreciated on this thread...Good luck to you two.

Hi gbenga112, thanks for your input.

The problem is her email conversations with me are forged and untrue. She can post what she wants but it is simple to edit an emails text.

As for the refunds we require the process as the Australia tax department can be very strict on a businesses earnings. A registered letter and a cheque shows the tax department proof that the money was refunded and not spent.

We plan to move the company to the UK by the end of the year. Once this happens we can do simple refunds via PayPal. As soon as my bank confirms the cheque is cancelled we will refund her via PayPal. I have grown tired of this woman and her unfounded accusations.

As I have said she is the only person to complain in three years. That in itself tells you something.

Hopefully this refund will be the end of this issue.

 

[gbenga112]

@ NickB

You saying she's the rudest is not helping the issue and image of you and your company.Quality to me is customer's perception of good or service, she has the right to request for refund since she's not satisfy with the service,irrespective whether the purchase was made by error or not..Besides your company guaranteed refund.

NickB please instead of dragging this issue further, fair resolution would be to refund her via paypal on Monday and at same time tell your bank to cancel the cheque.