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Resolved - CM Trading -- problem

Discussion in 'Resolved Issues' started by scorpio25th, Jan 25, 2016.

  1. scorpio25th

    scorpio25th Recruit

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    I have trades (copied from other trader, with CM Trading CopyKat function on CM Trading Web Trader) USDZAR closed at 18.29+ on 11th January 2016. However that day USDZAR has never reached 18+ on my platform.
    370. 370CM.
    I reported my case to CM Trading and on 14st January I got reply from support:
    "We have checked your inquiry and it seems that all those trades were copied from a trader who is not trading with us.
    Therefore we have no control of his actions and we cannot check his trades.
    Please also note that he is might using different quotes leading to a different outcome.
    At the moment his trades were closed, your positions were closed as well.
    As a gesture of goodwill, we decided to offer you a $300 bonus (all bonus terms and conditions apply).
    Kindly let us know if you agree with this solution so we can proceed and credit the bonus into your account."


    However I do not think I can ever trade on a platform on price this platform has never offered me.

    I then had live chat with support:[/SIZE]
    Jan 14, 2016 9:41:21 AM EST
    Chat Transcript
    info: Thank you for choosing to chat with us. An agent will be with you shortly.
    info: You are now chatting with George.
    George: Welcome to CM Trading, how may I assist you?



    Rong: Hi this is Rong
    George:
    how can I assist you?



    Rong: I cannot agree with your findings
    Rong: firstly, you said the trader is not trading with you
    Rong: however I copied his trades from CMTrading Web Trader
    George:
    on Copykat there are traders that are not trading with us



    George:
    it's a universal platform and traders might be trading with another company



    Rong: https://webtrader.cmtrading.com/?se...://uk1-websrv1-cmtrading.FOREXWEBSERVICES.COM
    Rong: the link is cmtrading.com
    George:
    yes because your are logging in to the Copykat platform though our company



    George:
    but inside the platfrom there are traders with other companies as well



    Rong: that's not the most comical thing
    Rong: even I copied someone with different quotes, I copied he's entry and exit timing
    Rong: you should give me the price you have at that moment I entry or exit, because I trade with you
    Rong: would you give me whatever price I copied from other traders?
    George:
    the opening and closing prices might be different between companies and since you were copying a trader, your trades were closed the moment his trades closed



    Rong: that price my trades closed, it never on your plateform
    George:
    yes but this is how copykat works, you are copying other traders and prices are following his quotes



    George:
    if only you were copying a trader on our company, we would be able to check it further and see if there was anything wrong



    Rong: yes, my trades were closed at the moment his trades closed, but I trade on your platform, your platform never offered that price
    George:
    but your trade follows the trader's trade and price, so it closes the moment the trader's position closes



    George:
    unfortunately, as we mentioned on our email we have no control over it



    Rong: I don't think it's possible a platform would allow me to trade outside the price itself has to offer, without manipulating.
    Rong: I have another account also copied those trades
    George:
    from the same trader?



    Rong: yes
    George:
    the exact same trades, the exact same moment?



    Rong: yes
    Rong: XXXXXXXXX
    George:
    and what was the outcome?



    Rong: what outcome?
    George:
    what was the result of these trades?



    George:
    was it the same?



    Rong: yes
    George:
    as we said we do not have control over these trades as they were opened by a trader in a different company



    George:
    and were closed the moment his trades were closed according to the other company's quotes



    Rong: how do i tell if it's from same company?
    George:
    we've checked it



    Rong: how do i tell if it's from same company?
    George: One moment please




    George:
    these details are private even for us, we cannot even check which company this trader trades with



    Rong: so when I copy, that's not possible to know whether it's from same company?
    George:
    no unfortunately you cannot check that



    George:
    as we said on our email, the only solution we can offer you is a bonus of $300 as a gesture of goodwill



    George:
    should you wish to accept that offer, please reply to our email



    Rong: no I don't want bonus which will never be able to withdraw
    Rong: if I want i would ask when I open the accounts
    Rong: I would check with more experts and FSB on this
    Rong: thank you
    George: You're welcome



    George: Thank you for chatting with us today.

    thank you.

    After I visit Forex Peace Army website, I thought the 1 minute chart may tell me more about that incident. However my platform doesn't not allow me to go back that fast on 1 minute chart. I try to request from Support, but they refused to provide to me.

    Even more suspicious, I got hint from CM Trading support to copy that particular trader's trade from their CopyKat system. mail. Of course when people sent this kind of email to you, you don't just reply as per instruction. I went to check out those trader's performance, Avatar7 has not been trading for a few months. Then I found Avatar61, I think that's the same trader.

    I still think when I copy a trade it's just copy the timing of the other trader. The other trader's broker offer what kind of rate should not be able to work on my platform provided by my broker.

    The pair I encountered was USDZAR, CM Trading is located at South Africa. I wonder if these are all related.
     
  2. FxMaster

    FxMaster Lt. Colonel

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    Two steps that you must follow

    1st - Invite them to join this thread via email (Send email to every possible address).

    2nd - Go to their website and invite them to here via Live Chat.
     
    scorpio25th likes this.
  3. CM Trading Support

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    Before we actually address the trader’s claims, we will take a moment to explain the use of the CopyKat software since it is at the heart of the issue.

    The CopyKat software allows what is commonly known as “mirror trading” and “social trading”.
    Traders from all over the world can access this community via the trading company under which they hold a trading account.

    For instance, “Trader 1” can access CopyKat via “company A” who gets its trading quotes from “provider X” and “Trader 2” can access CopyKat via “company B” who gets its trading quotes from “provider Z” and so on.

    It should be noted that different trading quote providers can give out different prices for the same asset and can be executed under different trading conditions.

    In any case, “Trader 1” can copy “Trader 2” and vice versa.

    The personal details of all traders remain confidential and cannot be accessed neither by the traders themselves, nor by the trading companies holding the trading accounts.

    Just like other companies cannot have access to the personal details of CM Trading’s clients, CM Trading does not have access to personal details of clients of other companies, nor has the ability to find out where those clients are registered and/or where they get their quotes from.

    Our client did set up his account on CopyKat to copy trades from a master trader “Avatar61”.

    “Avatar61” is not a CM Trading client, therefore we have absolutely no access to his personal details, the name of the company he trades with or the name of the quote provider they are using.

    “Avatar61” opened trades according to prices that were given to him by his provider. Those trades were closed also according to a price given to him by his provider, which differs from the price given to us by our provider.

    CopyKat did what it was supposed to do, which was to copy the opening and closing of the trades, regardless of the opening or closing prices.

    On a side note, we would just like to point out that the price at which “Avatar61” trades closed is indeed a bad price and he should take that matter up with his service provider.

    Even though CM Trading had absolutely no control over the other trader’s quotes and trades, we still offered our client, as a good will gesture, what we believe to be a fair compensation and we did so not because we had to, but because we take our customer satisfaction extremely seriously.

    Our client unfortunately decided to decline our offer.
     
  4. Pharaoh

    Pharaoh Colonel

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    A bonus does not equal compensation. I'm not sure a bonus with all the usual strings attached qualifies as a goodwill gesture. Was there some other form of compensation offered beyond the $300 bonus mentioned by your client?
     
  5. CM Trading Support

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    We would like to reiterate and state that CM Trading was absolutely not at fault in this matter.

    The copied trader received a bad price for his trade and our client was copying that trade.

    We did not give this price, we did not tell our client to copy this trader nor this specific trade.

    Despite that fact, we took it upon ourselves to compensate our client for something that we did not do, nor had any control over, simply because we aim at keeping our clients happy.

    We do believe that a bonus of 300$ is fair compensation. It is true that this bonus comes with terms and conditions, as would any bonus of any kind, however keep in mind that we are not at fault here.
     
  6. Pharaoh

    Pharaoh Colonel

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    You may not be at fault, but referring to a bonus with all of it's volume requirements as a goodwill gesture or compensation is an inherently deceptive statement.

    Personally, I recommend traders avoid bonuses altogether. Bonuses are designed to drive trade volume for the broker. Any possible benefit to clients is a secondary consideration.
     
  7. CM Trading Support

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    In general, our clients must trade an average of 10,000$ for every 1$ bonus received.
    In this specific case, the client will have to trade 1000$ for every 1$ bonus received. We believe this to me more than achievable.

    Again, let's keep in mind that we are not at fault and still we are doing our very best to keep our client happy as we would for any client of ours.
     
  8. scorpio25th

    scorpio25th Recruit

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    No matter how you deny it, the truth is out there to be found. Not only system making fault, people also telling lies, that's rather more disappointing to find out.

    Leverate is the developer of this Sirix CopyKat system.
    Conversation as screen shots. Here for your easy reading:

    me: Hi, I'm not a broker, I'm a trader, user of Sirix. I just would like to find out, when trader A copy trader B to enter and exit a trade, what exactly has been copied? The timing? Or the price the broker of trader B has offered? Thanks.

    Leverate:Thanks for contacting us. Per your question it is the timing

    me: Hi Nadav, thank you for your kind reply. In this case, the spread of trader B will not affect trader A's enter and exit price, trader A's enter and exit prices are solid provided by the broker of trader A at the moment the trades are executed, is my understanding correct? Thank you!

    Leverate: Correct

    leverate 2. leverate 1.
     
  9. CM Trading Support

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    Thank you! You have just proved the point we have been making all along!

    You asked Leverate: “when trader A copy trader B to enter and exit a trade, what exactly has been copied? The timing? Or the price the broker of trader B has offered?”
    Leverate answered: “it is the timing”

    We refer you to our previous answer which stated: “CopyKat did what it was supposed to do, which was to copy the opening and closing times of the trades, regardless of the opening or closing prices.”

    How is our answer any different than the one you received from Leverate themselves?

    You now speak of spread affecting your trade.
    Let’s keep in mind that we never argued that spread affected the outcome of your trade. What affected the outcome of your trade was that the master trader received a bad price!

    As we mentioned before, we take our customer satisfaction seriously and we do our very best to keep our clients happy even if whatever affected them is not our fault.

    It is really unfortunate that “pseudo complaints” of this kind are brought up, as we spend an enormous amount of time and resources arguing a complaint that has absolutely no merit.

    If our client is dissatisfied with the service, we invite him to withdraw his funds and close his trading account.
     
  10. scorpio25th

    scorpio25th Recruit

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    Great that you agree I copied only the timing of the other trader's open and close. Then please explain why you and your support kept saying I copied the trader's price and quote? What does it even matter I copied other company's trader or same company's trader, since I only copied the timing?
    Since it is now crystal clear that Copykat does not make me copy the other trader's price, but only the timing, please explain why I traded on a price the platform has never offered?
     

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