Resolved - FXCM - ATG Client was not extended ATG pricing after making qualifying deposits

[Authentic Trader]

I hesitate to call this a "scam" just yet, rather an oversight and sloppy account management. I originally opened a mini account, and received mini account spreads and pricing. On 11-8-15 at 8:04 pm, my qualifying deposit (trans ID 2015110600320205) was posted to my account and I should have been receiving Active Trader Group (ATG) pricing from that point forward. I did not, as best I can tell, for the next 13 months I continued to receive mini account spreads on all my transactions. I was not extended the spreads that they advertise on their site, though I have been an ATG client since 11-8-15.

A few days ago, in talking with one of the ATG client reps about moving my IRA, he said "When you do that, we'll be able to get you better pricing...." I said okay, and as I hung up the thought, wow, even better than what I have now? Cool. I am fairly new to live trading, and not a scalper, so I never really checked the spread in any detail. But, his comment made me check it out, and of course I was taken aback. I logged into my account and verified the qualifications to receive ATG pricing, which I have maintained since becoming an for ATG client. I then checked it on both Trading Station "Simple dealing rates" and Mt4 Market Watch. Sure enough the spreads were all mini- account pricing. The benchmark EUR/USD was 1.4, and it should have been .4

At this point I called and spoke to a rep about this and he said, "That doesn't look right, mine is showing .4, let me look into this and I will get back to you". He never did. At this point I called my ATG point of contact, alerted him of the situation. I took screen shots of both platform's quote panels, executed a small micro lot trade, and took a screenshot of that, I then emailed my ATG rep the screenshots - they are the ones uploaded here. He replied, thanking me for the screen shots, and said he would get back to me after "reviewing with ops".

He called me back within a few hours and said " Check the spreads now, do you see we've changed them for you?" I said sure, and he said "Better? Glad we got that fixed, have a nice day." He was about to hang up and I stopped him asking what they were gonna do about all the trades I had made at the higher spreads? I told him there was a significant difference in my trading costs between what I was charged and what I should have been charged. Maybe not to them, but to a new struggling "wanna be trader" it was. He was at a loss and then finally stammered and said, "Let me see what we can do, my boss is out of town this week, I will talk to Rabbhi, and get back with you."

I said okay, but it really didn't sit well with me as it is pretty obvious I have been overcharged from the beginning, and I find it difficult that my rep's boss doesn't have someone covering for him while he is out. So I decided I better begin some work on my own, get things documented, and escalate just a bit. To test the waters, I have opened a trade audit for two trades requesting to know what spread was charged on two trades 250k each. To me the most troubling thing about this is, had I not pushed back, FXCM would have just let it go. "No big deal, $50 here, $45 there, he only traded 91 million in that time, not a lot of money. Let's hope he won't notice."

This is why I started this thread. They advertise "some of the lowest spreads in the industry". When they get a bead on you that you are going to make a large deposit, their sales folks call you every other day - " when do you think you will do the transfer..." Then you make it, and the calls stop. Their back office didn't make the switch to the better pricing, which seems a little sloppy, and I am having to push to get credited the difference between what I was charged, and what I should have been charged. On just that one transaction that the audit request was submitted, it's about $50 difference. PLUS, I am getting ready to move even MORE funds with them.

So I have had three phone calls about this, two email exchanges, and the audit. Not ready to open a case, I want to be fair, patient, and let their process run it's course. To their credit, they remedied the spread same day, which was impressive. I will keep everyone posted as to the progress of the case. Thank you all for viewing this and any suggestions or comments good or bad welcomed...still consider myself a "newbie".

 

[Jason Rogers]

I hesitate to call this a "scam" just yet, rather an oversight and sloppy account management. I originally opened a mini account, and received mini account spreads and pricing. On 11-8-15 at 8:04 pm, my qualifying deposit (trans ID 2015110600320205) was posted to my account and I should have been receiving Active Trader Group (ATG) pricing from that point forward. I did not, as best I can tell, for the next 13 months I continued to receive mini account spreads on all my transactions. I was not extended the spreads that they advertise on their site, though I have been an ATG client since 11-8-15.

A few days ago, in talking with one of the ATG client reps about moving my IRA, he said "When you do that, we'll be able to get you better pricing...." I said okay, and as I hung up the thought, wow, even better than what I have now? Cool. I am fairly new to live trading, and not a scalper, so I never really checked the spread in any detail. But, his comment made me check it out, and of course I was taken aback. I logged into my account and verified the qualifications to receive ATG pricing, which I have maintained since becoming an for ATG client. I then checked it on both Trading Station "Simple dealing rates" and Mt4 Market Watch. Sure enough the spreads were all mini- account pricing. The benchmark EUR/USD was 1.4, and it should have been .4

At this point I called and spoke to a rep about this and he said, "That doesn't look right, mine is showing .4, let me look into this and I will get back to you". He never did. At this point I called my ATG point of contact, alerted him of the situation. I took screen shots of both platform's quote panels, executed a small micro lot trade, and took a screenshot of that, I then emailed my ATG rep the screenshots - they are the ones uploaded here. He replied, thanking me for the screen shots, and said he would get back to me after "reviewing with ops".

He called me back within a few hours and said " Check the spreads now, do you see we've changed them for you?" I said sure, and he said "Better? Glad we got that fixed, have a nice day." He was about to hang up and I stopped him asking what they were gonna do about all the trades I had made at the higher spreads? I told him there was a significant difference in my trading costs between what I was charged and what I should have been charged. Maybe not to them, but to a new struggling "wanna be trader" it was. He was at a loss and then finally stammered and said, "Let me see what we can do, my boss is out of town this week, I will talk to Rabbhi, and get back with you."

I said okay, but it really didn't sit well with me as it is pretty obvious I have been overcharged from the beginning, and I find it difficult that my rep's boss doesn't have someone covering for him while he is out. So I decided I better begin some work on my own, get things documented, and escalate just a bit. To test the waters, I have opened a trade audit for two trades requesting to know what spread was charged on two trades 250k each. To me the most troubling thing about this is, had I not pushed back, FXCM would have just let it go. "No big deal, $50 here, $45 there, he only traded 91 million in that time, not a lot of money. Let's hope he won't notice."

This is why I started this thread. They advertise "some of the lowest spreads in the industry". When they get a bead on you that you are going to make a large deposit, their sales folks call you every other day - " when do you think you will do the transfer..." Then you make it, and the calls stop. Their back office didn't make the switch to the better pricing, which seems a little sloppy, and I am having to push to get credited the difference between what I was charged, and what I should have been charged. On just that one transaction that the audit request was submitted, it's about $50 difference. PLUS, I am getting ready to move even MORE funds with them.

So I have had three phone calls about this, two email exchanges, and the audit. Not ready to open a case, I want to be fair, patient, and let their process run it's course. To their credit, they remedied the spread same day, which was impressive. I will keep everyone posted as to the progress of the case. Thank you all for viewing this and any suggestions or comments good or bad welcomed...still consider myself a "newbie".

Welcome to the forum, Authentic Trader, and thanks for bringing this to my attention. I am following up with our Active Trader Group regarding the concerns you raised and will update you once I have received clarification about your account.

 

[Authentic Trader]

Thank you Jason. I want to say that overall, in all my dealings with FXCM have been OUTSTANDING and every interaction with FXCM staff has been handled with professionalism, courtesy, great care. It's just the fact that they didn't make the switch to better pricing, AND when alerted to it, while they fixed the pricing, they didn't even mention the higher spreads i had been charged all along until I brought it up....surely they had to know there was a higher mark-up all along.

 

[Authentic Trader]

Update - I was talking with my ATG rep today about a different matter and before I hung up he said he wanted to talk to me about the spread issue. He told me the initial investigation did show that they were in error and when they switched my account from mini to ATG they forgot to change to "reduce spreads plus commissions." He said I had been trading at the higher spreads, but also continued to trade without commission. He said the average markup was about .2 pips, which seems a little low according to what I was seeing. It's more like 1 to 1.5 pips, and even more on the crosses. (The benchmark example they use in their examples has the EUR/USD 1.4 vs .4). He said they are in the process of figuring out the best way to credit my account as "the CFTC doesn't allow refunds on a trade by trade basis" ( is that true?) and also because I traded so many different pairs. I suggested why not just do a lump sum calculation. FXCM trading costs example on their site show that mini accounts average about $150/million while ATG is about $86 million - about a 42% discount. So my costs as a mini were ( on average ) 91m x $150 = $13,650. Had I been trading at ATG pricing, they would have been $7,826. Why not just credit me the difference and be done with it? He said they will see. So I put all that in an email and sent it to him. I also asked if he could point me to the CFTC regulation(s) regarding broker responsibilities and client remedies when clients have been over charged commissions. (Does anybody know ?) Overall very satisfied with the progress and follow through to date.

 

[Pharaoh]

If this doesn't work out, usually it's the NFA which handles client complaints. Of course, it never hurts to complain to ALL possible regulators.

Let's hope it does work out.

 

[Authentic Trader]

Update - Pharaoh, thanks for feedback. To everyone, FXCM called me again, this time one of the people from the Private Client Group. He explained in better detail the rule regarding refunds on stuff like this - it has basically to do with the fact to adjust trades after the the fact is in essence "trading off market" - not allowed. I won't get into all his explanations, but I was satisfied with his explanation. her went on further saying that if they can refund the money in a way that doesn't get them cited, they will. If not they will extend me "very favorable pricing going forward, which will really work out to my benefit over the long haul. That's true except for the fact that as soon as I complete the transfer of my IRA, my total funds on deposit and thus my trade sizes will probably get me the best pricing anyway. Now if they mean better pricing beyond that, then yeah sure. Bottom line FXCM has completely owned this and are working on getting it resolved in the best way moving forward. His exact words were..."were gonna make you whole". 99% confident at this point they will.

 

[Jason Rogers]

Update - Pharaoh, thanks for feedback. To everyone, FXCM called me again, this time one of the people from the Private Client Group. He explained in better detail the rule regarding refunds on stuff like this - it has basically to do with the fact to adjust trades after the the fact is in essence "trading off market" - not allowed. I won't get into all his explanations, but I was satisfied with his explanation. her went on further saying that if they can refund the money in a way that doesn't get them cited, they will. If not they will extend me "very favorable pricing going forward, which will really work out to my benefit over the long haul. That's true except for the fact that as soon as I complete the transfer of my IRA, my total funds on deposit and thus my trade sizes will probably get me the best pricing anyway. Now if they mean better pricing beyond that, then yeah sure. Bottom line FXCM has completely owned this and are working on getting it resolved in the best way moving forward. His exact words were..."were gonna make you whole". 99% confident at this point they will.

Thanks for sharing this update, AT

Like my colleagues in our Active Trader and Private Client Groups, my goal is to ensure this matter is resolved to your satisfaction. If there is anything else I can do to help, please let me know.

Happy New Year!

 

[4evermaat]

I guess if the OP is satisfied, then ok. But I'm not wholly convinced here. If there is money owed, there should be a credit issued. That 'off market' trading is a very convenient excuse. If it is not issued as a credit to the trading account, it could be issued in a new account or just a wire/check directly to the affected client. Or eliminate commissions on trades until it is paid back. The commission structure should be updated first to the correctly discounted rate.

The lengths that some brokers go though to con their clients. I thought they did away with all this crap and just gave everyone raw spreads + commissions.


BTW, is this FXCM US or FXCM UK?

 

[Authentic Trader]

Update - FXCM ATG rep phoned late today advising that a credit has been approved and will hit my account in normal processing times.

@4evermaat - they DID fix the commission and spreads within hours of my alerting my ATG rep. I didn't explain their trade adjustment limitations as well as Jim for PTG did, so that is on me, ( maybe Jason can comment? ) but as he explained it it made perfect sense. I see no need, nor have the time to chase down the nuts and bolts of it...it made sense to me, and since everything else has been take care of, I consider this thing resolved. Oh yeah, this is FXCM US.

As an aside, if you are US and looking for a broker, you really should consider FXCM. We don't have a lot of options in US. They are publicly traded, so in addition to all the US watchdog regs, they have vested interest in doing business on the up and up due to share holders . There are scamming brokers out there to be sure, but FXCM isn't one of them IMO.

I have my own views on the whole broker scam issue - I know they exist. But the more I think about it, the more I am thinking why would a broker want to scam you? For quick hit profits? Surely they stand to make much more money over the long haul by helping you become successful and grow your account. I know in my own case, when I incur big losses ( my bad trading not because of scams ), I quit trading large lot sizes, and re-evalute things, sometimes demo trading only. When I trade less or reduced lot sizes, how does that help the broker? If I am bad enough and can't win at all - I will have to shut down to conserve capital - unless I am a riverboat gambler and have money to burn and just go ahead and refund - and I am not a gambler! If I quit trading, the broker loses that business.

 

[4evermaat]

Update ......... FXCM trading costs example on their site show that mini accounts average about $150/million while ATG is about $86 million - about a 42% discount. So my costs as a mini were ( on average ) 91m x $150 = $13,650. Had I been trading at ATG pricing, they would have been $7,826. Why not just credit me the difference and be done with it? He said they will see. So I put all that in an email and sent it to him. I also asked if he could point me to the CFTC regulation(s) regarding broker responsibilities and client remedies when clients have been over charged commissions. (Does anybody know ?) Overall very satisfied with the progress and follow through to date.

I'm still not fully convinced. It is good that they fixed the pricing issue so that you got the correct ATG pricing + feed moving forward, and they did that quickly. The unresolved part (perhaps the most important part) is the backpay owed. Since they acknowledged that you are supposed to receive the lower pricing before it was actually adjusted, you should receive some sort of credit ($13,650 - $7,826 = $5,824)

Did fxcm credit this back to you? If so, in what way exactly?

I remember in the past, when FXCM was fined for asymmetric slippage by both CFTC and eventually the UK FCA, they made it clear that they would not reimburse FXCM clients [read next 5 posts] that traded at non-UK or non US divisions of FXCM.