Im 55 and have been trading 8 years futures and Forex. In that time I've bought many products. It's a serious accusation to say a company is running a scam. So how do I define a scam. My criteria is when a company puts forth sales and marketing information via press, webinars, or websites that cannot be substantiated by facts and ultimately can cause the customers of the company to suffer mental and financial damage. So from this perspective I lay out my case. First, what does the company claim. This is most important. I'll attach some files, but here is the text directly from their website:
1) Catch 300+ Pips Per Day With ITM Financial The World's #1 Rated Forex Signals Engine!
2) Average Wins = Twice of Average Losses | Win/Loss Ratio of 60-70%.
3) Regularly Featured in The Wall Street Journal, Yahoo! Finance & More Top News Publications.
4)Performance By Currency Pair
5) 100-500 pips per week
6) The chances of having a NEGATIVE P/L in any given month, are almost ZERO PERCENT. That is how confident we are in ITM Financial Services.
The only independent source of data that they have provided is from myfxbook and even though its only 7 months of data, its the data that they refer customers to when questioned about the performance of their system.
Item 1. They have had 1 300+ day in 165 days does that qualify as the lead BOLDED headline for their system. Definitely deceptive.
Item 2. They claim twice as many wins as losses so that's 67%. myfxbook has their win/loss at 50% and on a weekly basis it is also 50%. Over a period of 33 weeks. Not is statistically significant and claim claim is not supported by the data.
Item 3. Go to the Wall Street Journal website and set the search to advanced and then 4 years of history. They claim they are regularly featured. They may be. The question I have is under what name. The only names I can find to search are: Internet time machine, ITM Financial, Forex Social Signals, and Curt Dalton. Nothing comes up under those searches. Maybe I just don't know how to use the site properly.
Item 4. Where is the data that supports these pip numbers by currency pair and why isn't it public and why doesn't it agree with myfxbook data. Are they weekly numbers, monthly, yearly.
Item 5. 100-500 pips/week. myfxbook has them at 817 pips thru 33 weeks. That is 25 pips a week. So on their low side of 100 they are overstating the data by 4 fold and on the high end they overstate by 20 fold. That is very significant and should not be used as part of their marketing if it is not verified.
Item 6. Chances of a negative month are almost ZERO. when 4 of your last 5 months do not agree with this statement it should be removed. It is no longer supported by the data.
Another issue I have is how they market the product through a mass webinar that I have watched twice and was the exact same both times. I do not believe it was live even though it was marketed as a live event. At least that's the impression I got. Only my opinion. I seen many webinars in the last 8 years of trading and this was one of those highly hyped webinars where you feel like if you don't buy before it ends there won't be any product left. Almost like the kind that say there are only 500 copies and then show the counter ticking down as the webinar progresses. Also, they would not take any questions. That was either by design or it was a prerecorded webinar. Near the end of the webinar they talk about the Iron Clad 60 Money Back Guarantee. They don't mention the fact that is only valid if you are at a net pip loss after 60 days. At least I never heard them say it and I've watched it twice. Its not until you are checking out that you may or may not realize that's the deal. I thought it was very misleading and I find their entire Sales and Marketing campaign to be a major misrepresentation of the evidence and not supported be any other independent data they are willing to release. I feel liked I was lied to. Suppose after 60 days by their calculations the system was plus 1 pip. You think that's what I thought I was buying after looking at 300+ a day, 100-500/week, Zero chance of a negative month. This is false advertising at this point and they need to back off their false claims and refund my money no questions asked.
It has been 61 days now and I just requested a refund with all the information ITM Financial requires. Below is the threatening email I received from the CEO, Curt 30 days ago. I will let you know if they honor my request for a refund. I have no idea why filing a dispute with AmEx would nullify my legitimate refund request.
I have been monitoring your conversation with Shawn.
According to game theory, you should not refund now. You are ripping yourself off.
1. You get a full refund on day 60 if you are net negative just like you agreed upon signing, so you are only 30 days out from that.
2. If we are negative, you get a refund, if we end up positive, you are about to miss a HUGE run.
3. If you chargeback now, we challenge it based on our digital signature and refund policy. We win about 80% of these types of chargebacks. If we win, you never get your money back since we can't refund a chargeback dispute. You loose it all.
It is in your own self interest to wait the 30 days you signed up for. You are guaranteed to get it all back or get on a big run. You chargeback now, you risk losing it all (membership charge) and miss a big run.
There is no possible way a chargeback helps you right now, it is not even in your own self interest to do it.
You should contact the fraud department at AmEx and see what they say about refunds and failed chargebacks. I personally have doubts about Curt's assertion.
Of course, even if the credit card company won't allow a refund under those circumstances, an honorable company with a money back guarantee would mail a check or make other arrangements to honor their guarantee.
In any event, please let everyone here know if your refund comes in or not.
I have had this AmEx card for over 10 years and many times I have disputed charges and before AmEx finished their investigation the companies have issued refunds. So I know that it is not an AmEx issue. I think what Curt is saying is that he just decided that if a dispute was filed he isn't going to honor his Guarantee. I think it's his way of intimidating people into not filing a dispute. After 4 out of 5 negative months he is trying to tell me that game theory supports the next month will be a huge winner. If you plot weeks/pips and run a logarithmic curve on the data you see a clear downward slope. Anyway I'm glad I didn't double down for the month of May and lose another 360 pips. His model is highly suspect now and he knows it. I have been getting emails from ITM Financial into another email account that must be on his distribution list and it seems that he is about to start selling a similar product under a different name.
WARNING!!!!! I just received an solicitation in one of my email accounts to view another ITM webinar. The first webinar I watched that sucked me in and got me to pay$1500 was almost the exact repeat of this one. The names were changed but all the links directed me to the exact same pages as the other webinar except the payment page. The cost is now only $497.[video]http://email@example.com&name=Jesse[/video]. Any idea why I am having trouble inserting charts in jpg format? Can't finish this discussion without the facts. The tactics they are using are by design and very polished and deceiving. I need to post these charts. Picture worth a 1000 words.
Let them come forward and defend their position against my allegations. When I bought their product ITM Platium for $1500 I was directed to a myfxbook chart that no longer exists. Now when you go to http://www.myfxbook.com/members/itmfinancial you get the results of their Titanium Product that they just announced. They are highly disceptive and now they are deleting old myfxbook data and replacing it with new data that has NO LIVE HISTORY!!!!! Someone please tell me why my charts won't post so I can expose this deceptive sales and marketing behavior. They are scrambling. They know the last model failed and now its on to the next with no creditable history to back them up although they would have you believe that they have 13 years of proven data. I can debunk their claims and will once I can posts some of their own charts. There is so much evidence against them now. I believe that this is all preconceived by them and its hurting people that aren't clear about what they are really buying and what the real value of their 60 Day Guarantee is. Sort of like a slick Ponzi scheme. Keep reselling a rehashed product under a new name so they can pay the people that want their money back.
ITM Financial was one of the first signal companies I was researching into. The only reason I didn't bad mouth them was the fact that I was promptly refunded my money (I think it was $49 or something). They are a whole bunch of crap to be honest. They sure spend heck loads of $$'s on adwords but when it comes to the bare bones, they're nothing what they claim to be.
I'll briefly outline their strategy:
1) You search for any indicator.. chances are their ads will appear. Ok, so you sign up. The sign up page is just a 'Name/Email address'. No harm done, and its a trap many will fall for.
2) Two/Three days to a week later, they send you their 'indicator' with buy/sell signals. Its nothing but a polished version of MACD or some Oscillator I reckon.
3) They then invite you to a webinar.. it looks so real.. it isn't. In fact its a recorded version trying to upsell their Neural Networks Signal method for some $$$$.00 BUT because you attended the webinar the price is discounted to you for $500 or something.
4) The webinar invitations continue and then they send you a second indicator.. its again a rehashed crap of some existing indicator.
NOW.... IF you decide to sign up, they give you some EURUSD trade copier EA. In the one week I used it, not a single trade was made. (In hindsight, i'm thankful for that).
5) So if you decide to take up on their $49 signal service, you start getting their signals via email and also to their website. What's surprising is that their trades look like a 5 year old trying to trade the markets. So when the Euro is on a small bull run, they'll tell you to buy.. no sooner does the direction change, you get stopped out.
Here's a screenshot of their most recent signals (I continue to get their alerts despite my account being closed). Bear in mind that I didn't cherry pick their signals, as you can see by the time stamp on their emails.
I don't mean to hijack your thread but its ridiculous that anyone who is internet savvy and some $$'s in hand can go about advertising on Google and scam people in below par service.
And I really pity those folks who fell for their proprietary neural network system.
I received the email below from four different Brokers on the same day and it links you to the Titanium Webinar. I would like to expose the flaws in the webinar but my jpg's won't upload. Have any idea why I am having trouble uploading Charts. This new webinar is well done, once again they act like its live, but You can't aske any questions and the fact I got it from multiple Brokers all with different webinar times proves its recorded and once again they offere the 25% discount IF YOU ACT NOW! I really want to expose this before people start buying it. I'm going to upload a review of ITM and their products on YOUTUBE so people find it when they google etc.