At the risk of violating the biblical adage "Do not answer a fool according to his folly lest you become like him," we will amplify and add some salient details to the mix in the cause of assuaging self-appointed overseer Mr. Pharaoh's and posterity's curiosity. (This forum will still be here long after we have all forgotten specifics and moved on with our lives, or to the next scam in the case of the Indonesian group.)
(1) Mr. Oktavianto has not once denied that his traders blantantly violated the bonus terms, which every trader agreed to upon becoming a client. All he has claimed is that Spartan parties made a "commitment" to pay the clients the profits they made anyway.
(2) The screenshots posted Mr. Oktavianto referencing said "commitment" are conveniently devoid of content or context regarding the commitment's details. What David SAID is that EVEN THOUGH Mr. Oktavianto's clients egregiously violated the terms of the granted bonuses and thus forfeited any right to their profits, SPARTAN WOULD STILL be willing to maintain and pay the account balances IN THE FORM OF REBATES ON COMMISSIONS PAID FROM ADDITIONAL TRADING ACTIVITY on non-bonused deposits. This was an agreement which involved Mr. Oktavianto promising to deliver prospective client deposits; it was not an agreement made with the clients.
Based on subsequent activity and pressure (including starting this FPA thread) to pay the profits IN ADVANCE OF supplying such business ... well, observers are entitled to their own interpretations, but it is hard for us to believe there was any good faith intention to bring in future client deposits when a mathematically advantageous deposit bonus (to the client, see below) was not made available. The key point: Mr. Oktavianto retroactively asserted that the (verbal, then alluded to in writing) "commitment" was to pay out Spartan's 50% share of the remaining unpaid-out profits in advance of supplying any such future business. Spartan representatives never made any such promise, in any form.
(3) Spartan returned every dollar deposited by Mr. Oktavianto's collective group of clients. We kicked in apx. $13,000 of the "profits" made by our "stupid hedging" to make good on our promise that any trader with a positive balance once bonus-abuse profits were netted out could withdraw said balance. Woulds't that every trader on the receiving end of a forex "scam" make out as well.
(4) We have been asserting that the clients were part of a syndicate, rather than independent traders brought in by Mr. Oktavianto. The vast majority manually entered and exited trades (mostly gold) using identical patterns, but this could have been because they were all following the same trading call guru. However, of the 72 traders in Mr. Oktavianto's group, 63 had email addresses of the form
xxxxxsby@vfemail.net of
xxxxxsby@gmail.com. Of the other 9, one was Mr. Oktavianto himself, at least one a relative, and one his alterego IB (Herlani). Again, people are free to draw their own conclusions. Ours is that treating his collective group of "traders" as in effect a single entity is valid.
(5) Mr. Oktavianto alludes to the 5% deposit bonus granted to him. The amount that he was granted and withdrew thanks to that element of our deal was $4,551.10. His head IB Herlani withdrew $9,557.70 earned on the agent's 50% share of client commissions assessed. The sum of the two is $14,108.80. Ergo, Mr. Oktavianto's making good on his 50% share of the commitment -- at the original agreed-up terms -- would have substantially originated from house money. He has not disclosed to us whether some or all this $14.1k has already been remitted to his allged clients purportedly aggrieved by Spartan's alleged malfeasance. (Naturally we are dubious that in the alternative universe where we all went forward with the original scenario envisioned in the agreement behind the "commitment" would actually have come out of his pocket, or even been nominally rebated.)
(6) Without going into the detailed mathematics, it transpires that the bonus program we agreed to offer based on Mr. Oktavianto's suggestion was the equivalent to giving someone a weighted coin where the probability of a flip landing on heads was about 55% and then letting the better wager on heads every time. As long as the bettor is prudent in the percentage of his/her kitty that he/she wagers on any one bet, the mathematics work inexorably in favor of the bettor over time. (We observe that the set of old Indonesian ladies who can afford $2,500 a throw turns out to be surprisingly large.) Of course bettors can sustain a losing streak even with odds 55/45 in their favor, which is in effect which happened in the current case, and which delayed our recognition of the probabilities involved and the deft exploitation thereof by Mr. Oktavianto's traders. Once we figured it out we closed the door on the operation as the agreed-to terms and conditions allowed us to do. (Note: No amount of hedging, "stupid" or intelligent, can overcome the outlined handicap. As Warren Buffett put it in another context, anyone claiming such should take up a career in sales but not mathematics.)
Jimmy
We have very open communication with them and will be happy to supply the with the data that we have concerning your account activity.=> thats bull****. you never appear before.just your guy only ( david and geoff) if you very open comunication please come to indonesia.we open direct discussion dont run away like this.
The bonus terms and the fact that your alleged traders violated them are unambiguously clear.=> ask to your guy david and geoff ward( they said as owner from spartan). they know about client trading activity coz we already inform to them before they start open account. and you already deal give us NPL from b book program. honestly this not about bonus scam. but this about commitment, david gould promise to us will pay client 50% from share loss. you know not all client follow bonus program. we just ask about your commitment for pay share loss. don't only take money if you get profit and when you get loss running away from this problem.
just focus what our commitment we deal before just pay client money 56k from our deal before from NPL . see my upload file. from geoff and david chat.