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Make Your Trading Truly Worthwhile

Make Your Trading Truly Worthwhile

Back when the FPA was new, there was one unique bit of Felix’s philosophy that really struck me. What caught my attention was that he talked about always donating 10% of his trading profits to a worthy cause. He said that when he did this, new opportunities opened up, and when he didn’t do this, good opportunities were few and far between. This helped to resolve a deep ethical dilemma I have had with the whole concept of forex trading.

Let me explain that. As I understand him, Felix donates 10% for karmic reasons. Others might donate 10% for religious reasons. My view is something of a mix of these two. Think about the whole concept of forex trading for a moment and try to answer these questions:

1. What do we, as forex traders, accomplish?
2. Do we build things?
3. Do we contribute anything to the world economy (other than keeping forex brokers and other forex produce sellers employed)?
4. If the world banks locked all exchange rates tomorrow, would anyone (besides the brokers and product sellers) even miss us?
5. Is the world a better place directly because of our forex trading?

Sadly, the answers, in order, are: not much, no, no, no, and no.

The last question contains the key. The world isn’t made into a better place DIRECTLY because of our trading, but if we contribute in other ways, then our trading can still serve a truly worthy purpose and help to make our world a better place.

I have my religious beliefs. Other people believe differently. Some do not believe at all. I have my philosophical beliefs, and know that yours are probably different. If you are such a cold, uncaring person that you want to make money ONLY for your own personal gratification and wouldn’t spend one cent to make this world a better place, then I probably don’t want to get to know you. Sure, I’d LOVE to get rich trading forex (I’m still working on that), and I hope that others can too, but I want my (impending) wealth to mean something. Leaving money to worthy causes in your will is nice, but it would be even better to also see some of the money being put to good use NOW. There are a couple of good reasons for this. First, if the organization you donate to wastes the money, you can give money to some other group else the next time you find yourself in profit (it’s a little hard to change your will after you’re dead). Secondly, it makes your forex trading about much more than just benefiting yourself (and maybe your immediate family). The scale of the cause doesn’t matter, but your efforts do. You can donate to the local church down the street or to a charity that benefits the world. You can donate for curing cancer or for cleaning up the environment. Find one or more causes that matter to you and support them.

Obviously, if your mother suddenly needs brain surgery or there is some other terrible family emergency, you can consider that to be part your donation. You should never have to decide between donating to charity vs. feeding your children (or yourself). Then again, if you are living so close to the edge that ten percent of your profits or even one bad trade could mean skipping meals, you really should find some other way to make your base income more reliable and save up for forex trading later.

Preaching isn’t my calling. I’m not going to tell you what to believe in. There are plenty of people out there who will be happy to share their religion or philosophy with you. You can believe in God, you can believe in karma, you can believe in fate, you can believe in the Will of the Macrocosm. All I ask is that you believe in something, anything that will make you want to improve the world. Next, don’t just believe, but act on your beliefs. Put some of your money (and maybe a little bit of your time) into your chosen cause(s).

You don’t have to stay with one cause exclusively. It’s a donation, not a marriage. I’ve donated to Chinese earthquake relief. I’ve donated to a local homeless shelter. I’ve donated to environmental groups. Recently, I was stunned to find out that a small donation I made to a group that helps pay for educating poor children in China was more than enough to send 3 children to school for an entire year. I think I’ll try to find out how much it would cost to build a small school in one of the places they support next year. I’m also planning a donation to a local shelter for stray cats. (I’ve adopted 3 wonderful cats from that shelter in the last few years.) Just make sure you always have at least one cause to support.

There are plenty of worthy causes out there. Make sure to do some research so that you don’t accidentally end up donating to a scam site posing as a worthy cause. Check closely, since there are a lot of scam sites with very similar names to well-known causes. It’s pretty easy to run a quick google search find the correct website for well-known causes and to make sure they aren’t tied up in some sort of scandal.

The FPA tries to help save the world from forex scams. See if you can help save the world from other problems. Unless your chosen cause is developing cheaper spaceflight, it’s the only world we’ll have ready access to for a long time to come, so let’s take care of it.

If anyone wants to list links to any established causes that they support in this thread, I’d love to see them.

Author Profile

Pharaoh

Pharaoh

Pharaoh is one of the FPA's oldest members (he claims to be about 4000 years old, but we think he's exaggerating a little). He says he created the world's first trading pair (Cow/Goat) while ruling ancient Egypt. Although there are no archeological or historical records to support this claim, we can't find anything to disprove it. Although he's not as active at the FPA as he used to be, he still holds the highest post count of all FPA members.

We don't understand how he does it, but Pharaoh has an uncanny ability to spot scams faster than anyone else we've seen. He claims to have known a number of companies were HYIP scams just by their domain names and that each time an examination of the website proved him right. He's also famous inside Forex Peace Army for warning about Ponzi schemes, even ones run by large and well established companies. He's been in a number of threads trying to warn people away from active Ponzi schemes. In spite of the efforts of shills and those gullible enough to believe in free money to discredit his words, he keeps up the warnings. In each case, the company ended up either disappearing with all client money or being shut down by the authorities.

In addition to investigating scams, Pharaoh has written a number of articles on a wide rage of trading topics, including forex broker selection, risk management, and how to select a good account manager. He's also covered other items of interest to traders, such as protecting wealth and purchasing precious metals.

Pharaoh claims to be a business consultant, but says he makes most of his income by running a globe-spanning hamster smuggling operation. If we are to believe him, he's currently working on a network of hamster tunnels under southern Europe.

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Comments

zarni
9 years ago,
Registered user
Although I agree with your philosophy don't you think it is slightly odd to donate based on the expectation that there will be more opportunities for oneself? One should donate regardless of that and not expect anything in return. Otherwise one is donating for selfish reasons.
Pharaoh
9 years ago,
Registered user
I don't see a truly inherent conflict. If one desires to do well so that one can share with others, this is not a bad thing at all. It's only if one desires to do well purely for selfish reasons that it becomes bad.

If you try to benefit the world, this will give you a more positive outlook on life and you may very well be more likely to see opportunities that you might have missed otherwise. Maybe new opportunities really happen, but maybe this just enhances one's ability to see opportunities that were already there. It's not an easy thing to put to a scientific test.

Plus, I doubt anyone makes donations of any sort with an expectation that it will cause them to live a life of failure and misery. :p
Michael Standen
9 years ago,
Registered user
Giving and Receiving...both important!

Thanks,I love your article!
Below is a link to the cause i support...its helps promote "peace dignity and prosperity" for all and,just as importantly,for those who are interested,can help show an individual how to go within to find self-knowledge and true peace and contentment.
The Prem Rawat Foundation - tprf.org
compcreator
9 years ago,
Registered user
Trading for Life

I actually heard a little more about theory that Felix has. He did also some calculations which he came up with on his own and do know that it helps him to find a meaning in Forex and wealth building. I think by donating money to charities helps you to balance out your mental state and control greed and many other factors which we gain unconsciously as we make more and more money in Forex. The key is to give that money without any regret or something else in mind which would make you feel uncomfortable.
Overall I think that formula works when you give something you get more in return, but as long as you not expecting and not asking for it.
marjiemiller
9 years ago,
Registered user
Doing something without expecting something in return, is like eating and not expecting to sh*t. We are basically being selfishly used by our molecules. Give to other molecules, knowing what's comes around, goes around a neutron. :). O.
TheBluePrince
9 years ago,
Registered user
The Benefit Of Traders

I disagree with your position that traders contribute nothing directly to the economy. They directly serve to moderate the fluctuation of prices in the market. If we weren't stepping in to trade the peaks and valleys of price movements when they move to extremes prices would continue to move even further in those directions. Some buyers would be paying too much or too little and the corresponding sellers would also be receiving bad prices. It may not be possible to prove this truth as a practical matter but if you think about what happens in any economy you can recognize that it is true. We take a risk to provide this service. It has value. Obviously great value based on the profits that can be made (or lost).
yurps
9 years ago,
Registered user
I will, someday

Believe me as soon as I can make some decent money at trading forex, I would love the opportunity to find somewhere to donate money and be like one of those rich philantropists. Alas I have yet to make some money, perhaps God/Buddha/The Great Spirit doesn't trust that I will donate. Actually I did make alot of money trading before, and I only donated a small amount of it for kids in Africa, but less than 0.5% of my earnings....oh well in the end I donated it all back to the market, perhaps the traders on the other side of my loosing trade donated it. Dam Forex, not only does it take discipline, education, software, and especially a good broker that wants to donate money to you but giving you a slow price feed, but also you have to be the most morally upstanding, politically correct member of the planet to justify taking the money of others thru trading.
compcreator
9 years ago,
Registered user
Well there are different values and ways to understand that "Giving something and not expecting in return". Think of having your kids and giving them money for education, food or any other needs. Are you expecting them to pay you back as they start making money ? I think if you do that would be selfish. They way you described that quote is more of a scientific way but it cannot apply to morals and values that people have towards things, although we are all different and some of us have scientific formulas for just about everything on this plannet and outside of it.
tom08879
9 years ago,
Registered user
Totally agree.Like in the Beatles song:" And in the end the love you take is equal to the love you gave ." HOw true, how true....
dabella
9 years ago,
Registered user
I second all you've said..

Since some time ago i'm following kiva.org (Loans that change lives).
This is a Micro-Loan org that list a lot of entrepreneurs from whom you can choose and lend them xx $ to support their project. Loans are repaid in a consistent way and you can re-use the original amount for new entrepreneurs.


Daniel.-
kenwork
9 years ago,
Registered user
A worthy cause...

I donate 15% of my profits to Fueled By The Fallen - Memorial Race Car - Remembering our fallen service men and women from Operation Iraqi Freedom (fueledbythefallen.com). A cause that supports the troops returning from Iraq and displays a moving memorial for our fallen heroes... I must also say that I am one of the founders of the project (and I do NOT make a single penny from this fine cause), but I ended up selling my house for this cause to help it get off the ground.

That's my two pips...

Ken
bamcoti
9 years ago,
Registered user
Donations

I completely agree. I have my reasons for giving. Even though I am still recovering from my long learning to trade process, I give when I get to the end of the month and have some left over. That is becoming less and less as My medical bills build. I have stage four cancer. I give to the American Cancer Society. Go to the American Cancer Society to see what is new on the treatment front American Cancer Society :: Information and Resources for Cancer: Breast, Colon, Prostate, Lung and Other Forms (cancer.org). There's a DONATE button on the page.
Mike
paul benson
9 years ago,
Registered user
giving back

wow
thank you for bringing this up , i think that most people are good nature,and will be giving 15% of my profits to the hosipital that has helped our son so much,i feel that this is the least we can do, and no matter how much we give we will never be able to repay them thank you Adelaide childrens hospital
shivayogi
9 years ago,
Registered user
To sacrifice comes from the Latin "sacrum facere", to make sacred. It was performed giving to the Gods part of something like part of a meal, an animal of a herd, and so on. All the esoteric literature is full of the positive aspects of donating. It's true it should be given without any involvement of the 'ego', and that's the tricky part, but giving is life, keeping is... and we 'should' give without expecting anything in return. Not easy, considering how our minds work. Anyway, I cannot agree more. And 10% has been used since the man came out from the caves. Spread the voice.
jbmaverick
9 years ago,
Registered user
Pharoah - Fantastic article, man. God bless you for sharing your thoughts on this. (By the way, I peeked at your profile and got a kick out of the bit about "watching as 'the perfect trade' slams into stop loss order" - Gee, we must do a lot of the same trades! :)
Pharaoh
9 years ago,
Registered user
> Pharoah - Fantastic article, man. God bless you for sharing your thoughts on this. (By the way, I peeked at your profile and got a kick out of the bit about "watching as 'the perfect trade' slams in..

Hee hee! Glad I'm not the only one. Happily for the causes I support, I have some income besides what I get from my forex trading account.


Don't think I'm all sweetness and light about having positive attitudes all the time. When I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a trade, the last question I ask myself is "Can I afford it if this goes straight to stoploss?" If the answer is "no", I don't take the trade. If the answer is "yes", then I say "goodbye" to that money and click the mouse.
:D

Some people would think that's being too negative, but it's saved me from a LOT of bad trades. When I first started trading, even with tight money management, I went into deep drawdown on my live account. Still, I've managed to claw my way back up to make some profits. Now I just need to do a little better so I can build that school.
Michael Ford
9 years ago,
Registered user
Michael F

An interesting principle about goals and values - if personal values are in opposition to goals, values will win. And according to Pharaoh, it seems that act of trading has no direct value or contribution to making a better society.

So if your goal was to make a living from trading & your value system says that your work must have some value to society, then you are not going to make a living from trading. And as we've all experienced - if you are trading and not making a living, then you're making a loss - donating to the market!

I'm from a 'working class' background where the value of work and its contribution to the community seems almost genetic. I also am having a great deal of difficulty turning a profit in trading (this is a nice way of saying I'm still in loss). I guess that my value system has been sabotaging my efforts to turn a profit as my 'working class' values state that my work must make some form of contribution to the community.

So Pharaoh's article has shed some light onto trading as a means to turn a profit AND make a contribution to the community, which would align a value system with the goalof trading for a living.
Cindy in AZ
9 years ago,
Registered user
This is an awesome thread...it is nice to talk about something uplifting. Great way to end the day! Thanks, Everyone
timax
9 years ago,
Registered user
Well, Its good to give...'The hand of the giver is mostly on top'
rhf1796
9 years ago,
Registered user
You struck a chord!

Thanks, Pharoah, for bringing into focus a subject that has wandered into and out of my brain several times in recent months. You know, this isn't one of those endeavors where you clock in at 8AM and out at 5PM, with an hour for lunch, and collect a paycheck every so often - guaranteed! (Kinda) In this deal wealth accumulation occurs solely because of hard work, study, thoughtful decision-making, and a bit of luck thrown in. No guarantees. One can attribute success to those factors alone, or like me, to those factors and the hand of a higher power at work.

If you believe as I do then I suggest serious consideration to Pharoah's, and Felix's premises. We do need to contibute, or "give back", as so many folks in the charitable arena are fond of saying.

My thing is super-at-risk high school age kids. I transport them on my school bus every day. So many of them appear totally lost to a life of drugs, crime, babies out of wedlock, etc. etc. etc., if you get my drift. They're tough as nails, live on the streets and/or in run-down houses, apartments, or motels. Filthy places inhabited by adults who are parents in only the biological sense, on drugs and full of alcohol; and abusive to the nth degree, physically and mentally. These kids that live like this haven't got much going for them. And the long-held American belief that we all can make something of ourselves with hard work and perseverance has never gotten imbedded in their belief system. And 99% of the time it never will, I suspect.

However! Lucky me! (I'm not being sarcastic here) I get to be with these kids a few hours every day of the week. It gives me a chance to get to know them pretty well. Ours is a small bus, 25 - 30 kids. And thank goodness there are one here and a couple there in whom, after awhile, you begin to see a little spark, something that's there that you can't help but think would blossom into a pretty neat human being if there was just some way to fertilize it, so to speak.

It's been an intriguing experience for me and I've concluded that my trading is where I can get the "fertilizer" - money, to maybe help nudge along a dream within one or two of these kids every so often. My vision is to pick one every so often, and begin a process, anonymously, that could change a life on a grand scale.

By the way, the main school for these kids here in our county has a population close to 300, most of whom have a probation officer assigned to them. That's every year! So they graduate, so to speak, a bunch in June, and they enroll a whole new crop just as big as the one that just graduated, in August. It's been this way for almost 30 years here. And where do most of the "graduates" go? It's anyone's guess, but I suspect we'll find them in those run-down apartments, motels, etc., and prison.

But back to the one or two in whom there appears to be a glimmer of a person who just might take the reins and run for the gold. What I envision, and for a long while it will take more than just me to do it, is this: clear the idea with our schools superindendent, the school bus transportation director, and the school principal, with regards to specific kids. Once done, drop it on them in the form of a letter from the schools superintendent. "It" will be a college education at a California state university. Of course, there would be conditions to be met throughout the experience, relating to drugs, alcohol, pregnancy, grades, and general lifestyle stuff. And the degree sought would have to be in a so-called solid arena. Engineering, computer science, teaching, medicine, etc. Political Science - no; Journalism - no; drama, art, sociology, psychology, etc. - no. If a kid could or would go for it their life would be forever changed, with an enormous chance to be a truly productive American.

I suspect that even those with a spark would never believe they could make something like this happen using resources in "their" world. That kind of thinking just isn't a part of them...they are in survival mode, plain and simple!

The stunning shock of receiving such a letter from a person in authority such as the superintendent, along perhaps with his personal counsel, might just get them thinking a bit differently. Taking a portion of trading profits to help make this happen would be a good thing!
jbmaverick
9 years ago,
Registered user
Easy Money :)

>
Don't think I'm all sweetness and light about having positive attitudes all the time. When I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a trade, the last question I ask myself is "Can I afford it if th..

Actually, I think you've got the perfect attitude - when you put on a trade, whatever money is represented by the space between your entry and your stop should be considered right then "money spent".
By the way, it helps, when the market is 2 pips away from your stop, to remind God, "Come on, help me out here - I'm trying to build a school for poor children, remember?!"
Me, I always love those trades where your stop-loss on your buy of gbp/usd was at 1.4994...and the low of the day turned out to be - click! - 1.4993.8. :)
Seriously, it really is all about good money management - If you can just conserve your capital, eventually you'll catch a market just perfectly and hit a home run that substantially increases your equity. (And hey, it only took me about a decade and three or four wiped out trading stakes to learn that lesson!)
What do you say tomorrow morning we just flip a coin and either buy or sell eur/usd blind, right before the Non-farm Payroll data comes out? Oh, come on - it'll be exciting!
cojub
9 years ago,
Registered user
Felix's story

Thanks Pharaoh,
I completely agree with Felix's and yours philosophy. I was raised same way by my parent (about giving & 10%) and I can testify about blessings which comes from it.
I would like to ask anybody who reads this post - In the early days Felix send the beautiful story about how he came to USA, how he started selling different products, later got involve with real-estate, Forex ..., and how he always applied 10% principle in his business ...
I lost that story. If anybody still has it, could you please send me a copy to bbujok@gmail.com, I would appreciate it. I can't sometimes explain this principle as well (because of my English), but definitely I can give them to read Felix's story
Thanks
MidasFX
9 years ago,
Registered user
Two quick points:

1) I donate 10% to charity for the most selfish of all reasons.... because the thought of making a difference in someone elses life makes me feel GOOD!! (Nothing wrong with being selfish)

2) My belief is that if you wait until you have enough money before you start to donate then you will never have enough money. For some reason your trades and biz endevours just wont work out.

Donate 10% NOW of whatever you do earn and get the ball rolling so the 'miracle' of tithing can start working in your life. (If you currently don't tithe because you don't have much money then just try it for a few weeks...it wont kill you...you might just be amazed at the difference it will make to your life).
photi
9 years ago,
Registered user
> And the degree sought would have to be in a so-called solid arena. Political Science - no; Journalism - no; drama, art, sociology, psychology, etc. - no. If a kid could or would go for it their life..

i followed you until i got to this point. part of being a productive american includes a solid belief that people have choice. who are you to tell a swan he should be a duck? a healthy society is diverse.

other than that i think you have a good plan.

peace.
rhf1796
9 years ago,
Registered user
Too much of a control freak?

Photi...you're right - mostly. As I was hauling my grandson to his Boy Scout meeting after my post I began to regret suggesting that psychology studies might not be considered "solid". That actually is a tough discipline to complete at the college level; and it does prepare one to be of a lot of help to others. It might also be very attractive to these kids for they might think they could contribute to the betterment of others using the knowledge acquired in their studies.

Unfortunately, or not, I don't think too much of folks who spend 4 years or more in college getting a degree in some area that is dominated by folks who don't like my country, or folks who preach that we are the world's evil incarnate...all in the name of the free flow of ideas. Anti-traditional American values (you know, the ones upon which our country was founded) are everywhere on American campuses, but not as pervasive in the disciplines I mentioned.

I guess that if I'm providing the money I can have a pretty strong say in what areas I want it spent. What say you? Must we always give the kids free rein? Isn't that part of the problem today? I would want to see a committment to something and a good old nose-to the-grindstone effort. And, OK, if one of the more liberal, liberal arts venues is his or her passion, then I say, Let's talk about it! Fair?
PipStar
9 years ago,
Registered user
I remember when Felix mentioned about giving to charity and that you will receive much more in return. I can tell you that once I started giving to charity and sharing, my whole standard of life dramatically improved and I received much more sometimes one hundred times what I gave and more. All from making more money through trading of course. But somehow I think this is linked together, giving and receiving. Someone, Somewhere takes notice of all these things, He is God. Not that I ask to receive in exchange for my donation, but I'm glad God does it anyway.
duck
9 years ago,
Registered user
Forex trading provides a real service

I'll echo a prior poster on the original questions:


1. What do we, as forex traders, accomplish?
2. Do we build things?
3. Do we contribute anything to the world economy (other than keeping forex brokers and other forex produce sellers employed)?
4. If the world banks locked all exchange rates tomorrow, would anyone (besides the brokers and product sellers) even miss us?
5. Is the world a better place directly because of our forex trading?



#1) As I understand it, forex traders provide liquidity to the finance markets. It is a *real* financial service much like any other you could think of.

#2) No, but neither do many other professions that nonetheless provide a real value to the economy & society.

#3) Yes, most definitely. We help ensure prices remain fair between international entities.
(At least we do if we make money. If we lose it, we do the opposite).

#4) Yes, they would. If exchange rates are locked, it would adversely affect imports and exports between countries with different economies, and that affects employment and standards of living. Constantly changing rates reflects changes in economies, and helps keep things fair and balanced (and not like a certain TV network likes to claim).

#5) It is, albeit measuring it may be difficult to do.

Really, since you concede that the world is a better place indirectly with forex trading, then it means the answers to #2-4 *must* be "yes".

It's an excellent set of questions to raise though and I'm glad you did since first timers coming to forex are not used to making money without having a boss and all that. To them (all of us, really) making money this way almost defies logic. But any and all forex traders should be fully convinced that forex trading DOES provide a valuable service to the (very big international) community.

I also don't quite buy the idea that for you to make money on forex, another forex trader has to lose it. I think there is much more than forex traders that in the markets. On the small end there are tourists from one country visiting another and withdrawing yen out of their dollar based account. They are not looking to make money like we are. They simply need yen and are willing to pay forex traders for the service of helping to provide a fair exchange rate. That's a small example but certainly there are many others.

On the donation of 10-15%, that's wonderful and very mentally healthy as it helps keep things in perspective.

Thanks for posting such a positive note!
photi
9 years ago,
Registered user
> Photi...you're right - mostly.

no doubt kids need discipline, some more than others. i think it is great that you have the intent of helping out troubled teens. it is not always apparent, but our lifestyle today more or less determines our lifestyle tomorrow. some kids are waiting to be saved and they need people like you.

back to the general discussion, count me in for the 10% rule. highly important.

many people think badly about wealth, even if on the surface they dream or imagine how great it would be to be rich. i am sure there are many reasons for this, one being the belief that money is something finite (zero-sum) and if one person has a lot then there must be several more without.

for anyone who is trying and not succeeding, i highly recommend Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill.
Stony
9 years ago,
Registered user
Complicated!

@ Duck:

I totally agree with your statements concerning the worth of trading!

@ Pharaoh:

You approached the issue of donating for charity reasons in a very complicated way. If one can afford it, he should help those who need help. If he can´t, he must help himself first by generating income. Which kind of income doesn´t matter, as long as it is legally ok. It´s that simple!

Happy trading - Stony
precap2
9 years ago,
Registered user
Giving is living

If you don't give, you're dead.
If you give without expecting to receive increase,
you'll receive it anyway.
But I give because it gives me joy.
I do give even out of my loss
ADEGBUYI
9 years ago,
Registered user
self interest

really ,i appreciate your message today because is an eye open one ,it has to do with doing oneself a favor.however is not compulsory but is mandatory ,is not even a science is a natural thing and for our own interest. what you gives is what you will be remember for;but as for me, i have been trying but i think i would like to do more.in conclusion the ball is in your court.giving is more blessed than receiving.[do your self a favor]
Doc Popsy
9 years ago,
Registered user
Why trade forex?

I am glad we are talking this way. The world could use such assistance, as many are miserable with no clear source of a single meal, especially in Africa. I have not actually run into profit, yet; but I know what I will do with such profit when it comes. I will be glad to put some smiles on the faces of quite a number of people around me. You can't believe what 50 to 100 dollars could do in the lives of local people in Africa. Lets continue to talk this way; and may God bless the mover of this discussion.
Pharaoh
9 years ago,
Registered user
> I'll echo a prior poster on the original questions:

1. What do we, as forex traders, accomplish?
2. Do we build things?
3. Do we contribute anything to the world economy (other than keeping forex bro..

Forex markets existed long before retail traders did. Yes, there's over 1 trillion per day moved, but we are really only a tiny percentage of it.

> #2) No, but neither do many other professions that nonetheless provide a real value to the economy & society.

Doctors and teachers don't literally build things, but they do provide critical services to society. The guys who collect garbage provide critical services to society. Lose any of these for more than a very short time and society would be in trouble. Lose retail forex traders and a modest percentage (at most) of the daily market liquidity goes away.
:)

> #3) Yes, most definitely. We help ensure prices remain fair between international entities.
(At least we do if we make money. If we lose it, we do the opposite).

Mostly, retail forex traders provide money to brokers and to other retail forex traders. Most brokers keep our trades in-house or use LPs that keep our trades in-house. In that case we have zero effect on the real market. Even if all of our trades pass all the way up to the Federal Reserve, banks and larger financial institutions trade over a trillion every day. We are tiny fish in a HUGE pond.

> #4) Yes, they would. If exchange rates are locked, it would adversely affect imports and exports between countries with different economies, and that affects employment and standards of living. Cons..

Exchange rates were locked for decades by Bretton Woods. It did lead to unfairness for some things. Then again, after currencies began to float, it took quite some time for retail forex to be "invented".

> #5) It is, albeit measuring it may be difficult to do.

I think our [I]direct impact (good or bad) is really minimal. Using some of our profits for good causes can cause a huge indirect benefit from our trading activities.

> Really, since you concede that the world is a better place indirectly with forex trading, then it means the answers to #2-4 *must* be "yes".

If we use some of our profits to improve the world, that changes a lot of answers from "no" to "yes". Otherwise, we're just keeping forex brokers employed.

> I also don't quite buy the idea that for you to make money on forex, another forex trader has to lose it. I think there is much more than forex traders that in the markets.

If you trade with the right bucketshop, it's your broker who loses when you win. Of course, brokers like that make it very difficult to be consistently profitable.

Still, on a level playing field, forex is slightly less than a zero-sum game (zero-sum minus spreads and commissions).

> On the small end there are tourists from one country visiting another and withdrawing yen out of their dollar based account. They are not looking to make money like we are. They simply need yen and ..

People who travel get to trade forex at the bank or airport (you know you're a forex trader when you see a 4 cent difference on buy and sell at the airport and think "400 pips! What a ripoff!") don't really contribute very much liquidity to the market. The tourists' losses are the gain of the company doing the exchanging.

> On the donation of 10-15%, that's wonderful and very mentally healthy as it helps keep things in perspective.


And will pay for enough catnip to keep 500 homeless cats entertained for a week.
:D
jurgras
9 years ago,
Registered user
jurgras

I have stopped trading Forex all together because I have developed serious ethical problems as a Christian with it.

Trading is a zero sum game, even a negative sum game. It produces NOTHING of value, no wealth is created like in Stock trading. The net chance in total wealth among traders is zero at the end of the day - the wealth is just SHIFTED from one trader to another!

It is far too close to gambling for me (some skill, a lot of chance), you also make gains ONLY at another's expense! Jesus said that we should love our neighbor as we love ourselves. How can you do that when you profit at somebody else's expense? To give to worthy causes is great, but the end does not justify the means.

Think carefully about what I have said. I don't know if anybody can convince me otherwise?
fxtender
9 years ago,
Registered user
giving

yes sir, you are 'on the money' about we need to give more. in the 3 to 5 thousand years 'people' supposely have been here I find our speices more and more un-torable. the narcisim and me-me-me attitude is at its' worse. i give what little i can to California Equine Retirement Foundation, Inc. (cerfhorses.org) - a retirement community for thorougbred horses. they also save a number of these horses from the 'grinder' .

we all need to change our attitude about helping out and helping others.
FxTender
take care of yourself, then your family, than others.
MarkDC
9 years ago,
Registered user
Great thread

Thanks for starting this conversation. It's like deja vu because I just started live trading on Monday, and I was searching online for good donation sites after my first weekly profit. I found two great charity resources:

Charity Navigator - America's Largest Charity Evaluator (charitynavigator.org) - perfect for finding a charity that is well run and helps in the philanthropy type or location of your choosing.

Modest Needs (modestneeds.org) - give small donations directly to help low-income individuals in need after reading their story. Every person's cause is researched by a volunteer who does the due dilegence for you, and the individuals often contact you directly to show their gratitude. You can also give anonymously.

Also, if you are trading your forex account in your IRA, and you're 70.5 or older and taking minimum distributions, you don't have to pay income tax on distributions that go directly to charity (up to $100,000) in 2009. Hopefully that rule will be extended. Just throwing that out there in case your circumstances match:
New Withdrawal Rules Give IRAs Some Breathing Room - wsj.com/articles/SB123033785000236433
4xStar
9 years ago,
Registered user
Excellent!

My goal is to one day become a "Visionary Philanthropist" .. I got the title from that guy in The Secret, Dr. Michael something ... I thought that was the coolest title ever!

For the moment I have adoped a child in Mexico through Children International, just one so far, but there will be more & I have some ideas to help troubled teens in this country as well. But I will need a lot of money ;)

Forex and Christian or spiritual values are very compatible in my opinion. "Love One Another" is all we really need to do .. yet far too many ignore this simple command.

Trading forex harms no one (unlike stock trading which can harm a company, especially a smaller one) and if it can make people wealthy and enough of them figure out the real path to inner peace is in service to others .. well, I think Jesus, Buddha and all the great spiritual leaders would be applauding our efforts. :):)
SAMMYFX
9 years ago,
Registered user
Secret Of Success

I agree with Pharaoh. Money just happen to stay with those who give. Call it a cosmic law or DIVINE law but it's true. Did not JESUS say "give and it shall be given unto you; good measure, press down, running over shall men give unto you." Talk about secret of success!
Ken Long
9 years ago,
Registered user
Great article, great comments. This has been a long standing dilema concerning trading in general, like gambling it is of no real use to anyone. Sure it provides liquidity and all the other things commented on, but it doesnt create anything of use to the world. The only real way to mitigate this discrepency is to share the wealth and make something positive of it all. It also is good for the soul.

Like Felix, I too believe that giving unselfishly brings good Karma. This goes far beyond simple monetary donations, anyone can give what they have in abundance, whether its their time and energy, their knowledge and skills, or just a good attitude and a helpful word, anything that can be of use to anouther, or make someones day a little brighter. It all counts in the greater Karmic package.

And if doing so can bring me greater luck and prosperity I'm all for it, but in reality just doing it is its own reward.
Kenneth Kiely
9 years ago,
Registered user
I fully agree with Pharaoh's thoughts. I am also donating for charity on a regular basis, no fixed amounts but everytime I come across good projects I support them. I think donating has always some kind of egoistic background .- I think nobody feels worse than before after donating for a good cause. It makes you happy and satisfied when you can help others - so I really like donating for egoistic reasons ;)
elah024
9 years ago,
Registered user

Make Your Trading Truly Worthwhile
By Pharaoh

hi there!

that was really a one worth helpful tip. thanks for that. keep it up pharoah...
vans22
9 years ago,
Registered user
> Believe me as soon as I can make some decent money at trading forex, I would love the opportunity to find somewhere to donate money and be like one of those rich philantropists. Alas I have yet to ma..


I know where you are coming from , oh noble one. Very well said.You sound like you trade to have something to give to the needy.If that's true , I hope you multiply !! Good luck !:D:)
elah024
9 years ago,
Registered user
would you give us tips on how to protect our investments from those who make scams?
Eric Alyea
9 years ago,
Registered user
My Cause

In the last line of your comment you said:
“If anyone wants to list links to any established causes that they support in this thread, I'd love to see them.
Mine is:

herorat.org

HeroRATS is a function of our parent organization, 1. APOPO, and was created to tell the stories of our true heroes -- our HeroRATS, our staff, and the lives they touch.
APOPO’s mission is to train and disseminate sniffer rats to save human lives- by detecting landmines and disease.
Landmines hamper reconstruction and the delivery of aid, hold up the repatriation of refugees and displaced people, and deprive some of the poorest people of land and infrastructure, therefore hindering access to social and economic development. Africa is struck more by the landmine legacy than any other place on the planet. A trained HeroRAT can clear 100 m2 in 30 minutes, equivalent to two days work for a manual deminer.
HeroRATS also reliably detect pulmonary Tuberculosis (TB) in human sputum samples. Tuberculosis was the first pathogen addressed, as TB kills more youth and adults than any other single infectious disease in the world today. Currently, in 7 minutes one rat can evaluate 40 samples which is the equivalent of 2 days of microscopy work for a lab technician.
Pharaoh
9 years ago,
Registered user
Eric,

Rodents for Peace! What a cool concept.

Just don't let my Chinese friends near them - some of them think fried rat is very tasty.
:D


> would you give us tips on how to protect our investments from those who make scams?

Check out some of the other articles here:

http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/r/10/pharaoh-forex-blog
elah024
9 years ago,
Registered user
i have read about that already. but wasn't convinced that much.:err:
Pharaoh
9 years ago,
Registered user
I see you've asked more specific questions in the related threads, so will answer those so this thread can stay more on topic.


Hey Eric,

Rats aren't the first animals used for clearing landmines. I wonder if anyone has organized a "Suicide Sheep" charity.
:D :D :D


Anyone else have a worthy cause? Personally, I'm now arranging a trip to build a classroom somewhere in southeast China.
trumpeter
8 years ago,
Registered user
Charity for Karmic justice

I've been trading off and on for 25 years, with no profits. Yes, I have wrote statements on paper to myself, promising to give 10 and even 20% to charitable endeavors. No help.

I have tried commodities, stocks, indexes, and everything inbetween.

This is my first Forex venture. I'm thinking of using the 'Logical Forex' indicator program. Anyone using this?

I will still give 20%, if I can realize a profit.
popularhelen
8 years ago,
Registered user
i love your article and i think we should all do the same, i usually drop my 10 % in church because i believe it works.give and it shall be given unto thee
Ken Long
8 years ago,
Registered user
> I've been trading off and on for 25 years, with no profits. Yes, I have wrote statements on paper to myself, promising to give 10 and even 20% to charitable endeavors. No help.

I have tried commo..

Simply promising money to the universal doesnt seem to work that well. I've tried this many times. But actually giving, of whatever one has, be it money, time, or effort does seem to have an impact. Not that it actually makes our trading better, but it does put us in a psychological, karmic position to recieve. Again, of whatever is being offered, or attracted, not necessarily money or trading excellence.

While giving is beneficial and supportive, and no doubt plays a big part in our own psychology and acceptence of wealth and success. It does not seem to be a true prerequisite for success, more like a by product, in that people generally are willing to give what they have enough of. Rather, the prerequisite for success in this or any business seems to be more in line with positioning, being in the right place at the right time, and self control, patience and not over leveraging. So far this seems to trump all the hard work, and law of attraction mumbo.

I dont know anything about the "Logical Forex" system. My own feelings on this subject are that all these little systems have something to offer, even if its just a kick in the head, or simply confirmation of what we already know. Ocaisionaly, they offer a new way of looking at something, or a new useful tool. But none are truely complete untill we can integrate them and make them our own. Whether its reading the trading clasics, or buying these $97 trading systems, its still a proccess of elimination, and the search for an understanding and our place in this game.
kim lee
8 years ago,
Registered user
I am new to forex and to this forum .What a pleasant surprise to read your post and realize I am amongst such nice people.Thank you.My faith in humanity nearly restored. I dont make much money,but I find I am able to give automatic payments each month to NRDC,and to Farm Sanctuary both worthy causes for animal rights.If I can make a little extra money trading forex ,I would like to give more.!
kim lee
8 years ago,
Registered user
I would like to donate to your effort if I'm allowed.Sounds like a worthy cause.
Pharaoh
8 years ago,
Registered user
There are a lot of worthy causes listed in this thread. Pick one (or more) and start supporting.

For the most recent large scale disaster, I decided to go with the Clinton-Bush Haiti Fund.

I picked them over some others I considered for several reasons. First, since this one is focused on one cause, there's not a lot of built in bureaucratic overhead. Second, I'd have to say that anything being run by 2 ex-Presidents of the US would go to great efforts to avoid getting caught up in any scandals over misuse of funds. Also, they take paypal. The problem I've found with a lot of causes that take credit cards is that they require a phone number. Once they have your phone number, what I plan as a one-time donation can turn into a lot of calls that can get pretty aggressive in trying to turn me into a regular contributor.
RahmanSL
8 years ago,
Registered user
Donations can be done in many forms.

My system of donations?

See/meet a person whom you know is struggling to make ends meet and with many mouths to feed? Just go and shake that person’s hand and leave whatever you can spare in that person’s hand.

See an elderly person at some small eatery checking out for low prices on the menu? Signal to the waiter/waitress that you will pay for that person’s meal. Or if that elderly person has already ordered and is eating his/her meal, just pay for that meal and walk away.

See the young child of some small time petty traders helping out at his/her parent(s) store/eatery? Pay your purchase with a bigger note and don’t take the change.

I have even took in complete foreign strangers whom I met at airports.House & fed them, show them my hospitality, and sent them off to their new destinations. From their “thank you” letters, I can read that it renewed their fate in humanity.

These are just some very basic ways, and my own way, of helping out. No one needs to know, and I don’t need anyone to know.

Why do I do what I do? Well, I too have received many “helping hands” from complete strangers, and from unexpected quarters, in my time. It’s my way of “paying my debts” for the kindness and help that I have received.
Airam Stella
8 years ago,
Registered user
worthy causes

Thank you for your good thoughts which I am also finding under the following title on Google:

LETTRE ENCYCLIQUE
DEUS CARITAS EST
DU SOUVERAIN PONTIFE
BENOÎT XVI
AUX ÉVÊQUES
AUX PRÊTRES ET AUX DIACRES
AUX PERSONNES CONSACRÉES
ET À TOUS LES FIDÈLES LAÏCS
SUR L'AMOUR CHRÉTIEN
TromS
7 years ago,
Registered user
actually, I like reading such forex-philosophy mixed articles. For me forex is something like an art and it cannot be just formalized as the set of strict rules. Many things here also depends on intuition and just simple luck.

and once more thanks for the article - it let me to get some rest of charts analyzing :)
georgeta
7 years ago,
Registered user
donating for a cause

I am enchanted by the ideea of donating for a good cause. It enriches our lifes and gives us a better, serene prospective. However, I am not considering Forex trading a useless activity. It is a service like many others. Maybe it is far productive than others. One cannot say that cosmetic services for pets, for example, is a more productive service. All activities that are legaly functioning in the economy are usefull. They are creating working places and prosperity. All the products and services, including Forex trading, are the same. They all contribute to the growth of the economy.
F0r3x123
6 years ago,
Registered user
Thank you for this great post!
Jasminder
6 years ago,
Registered user
thank you for a very good post, I'm new here and am looking forward to joining threads and sharing information

Jas
mrgummo
6 years ago,
Registered user
Everyday, I become more impressed by the FPA! This was a cool find! And whether you tithe for religious reasons or give for spiritual one's (or both), I do believe the Law of Attraction can play a role in trading--especially that "gut" feeling that turns into a successful trade.

All the best!
Ron
ladytrader
6 years ago,
Registered user
mrgummo, how I'd like it to agree with you. I guess I have a broken gut eheheh my gut feelings always go wrong :(
Now that I think about it, that's probably why I started trying automatic trading, to avoid gut interventions ;)
Whitesnake
5 years ago,
Registered user
Making the trading worthwhile can be done when the forex trader has done something good to themselves so that they can achieve the financial freedom by which they do not have any financial tension. Also donate some money to the needy people, above all we do not carry wealth when we die so sharing is always good.
Gennietrader
5 years ago,
Registered user
Very good piece of an article!
I'm just starting out forex trading... making huge amount of money with forex trading is still a long way to go.
I just hope that one day... I will become rich!
And of course, I would donate a portions of my earnings to the society who needs them.
Pharaoh
5 years ago,
Registered user
Just don't wait for "one day" to come. If you are only making a little, then donate a little. If you are making a lot, then donate a lot.
RahmanSL
5 years ago,
Registered user
"Back when the FPA was new, there was one unique bit of Felix’s philosophy that really struck me. What caught my attention was that he talked about always donating 10% of his trading profits to a worthy cause. He said that when he did this, new opportunities opened up, and when he didn’t do this, good opportunities were few and far between. This helped to resolve a deep ethical dilemma I have had with the whole concept of forex trading."

I saved most of those articles (copy & paste), but I am not sure which computer I saved them on:confused:

Yes, and some of those guys....cowmanger, ernest8fingers....and some more which I can't remember right now....Wonder where they at now??
Gennietrader
5 years ago,
Registered user
> Just don't wait for "one day" to come. If you are only making a little, then donate a little. If you are making a lot, then donate a lot.

Do you know any way to donate to charity online?
Pharaoh
5 years ago,
Registered user
> Do you know any way to donate to charity online?

Yes. The vast bulk of charity websites accept donations online. Virtually all take credit cards and many take PayPal.
Joh
5 years ago,
Registered user
Thank you pharaoh - what a lovely thread/read and so many responded with open hearts - Brilliant

Felix also gave me the mental push to tithe and now love it - it is a joy.
For me it has not changed an iota to my Forex trading so far -frankly i suck at it hahahaha however it teaches me patients and reading this thread gives my heart a lift - so glad to have met you all albeit briefly through your sharing - Am glad to be a part of this :)
vic84
4 years ago,
Registered user
you have made a very valid point, everyone should donate some percentage for the welfare of the society......
FXmanipulation
4 years ago,
Registered user
Thanks Pharaoh!

Very motivating posts...

Cheers
Joh
4 years ago,
Registered user
WORTH CAUSES;

TABITHA FOUNDATION in Australia/Canada/Singapore etc - they build homes in Cambodia for approx $1200/1500 US-millions live in flood plains and drown due to unexpected floods or from water borne diseases, these houses are build on stilts -overhead costs low/build by volunteers. They also build schools etc.
BAWA. Burmese Assoc. West Australia. They support 6 Orphanages/food clothes etc. and poor in Burma - tiny overhead costs.
KIVA; you can give your money to small entrepreneurs - micro loans- you can help donate a loan or give! to folk trying to buy a sewing machine or cloth so they can start making clothes or help buy a farm animal so they can sell the milk or eggs, a multitude of options.
orni308
4 years ago,
Registered user
making donations is very important, as it makes you feel good and which in turn creates a positive atmosphere in the society....
Refan37
4 years ago,
Registered user
Though I am newbie, and still learning..but i am agree with you...
Fmujer
4 years ago,
Registered user
I really love your post pharaoh! If one day I manage to obtain constant profit with Forex (or with any other work that i might be doing) I would be donating for abandoned animals... even now i actully buy piles of dog and cat food and give it randomly on homeless animals...the way they look at you thinking, wait, you ACTUALLY like me?! :( for now, i'm thinking globally but acting locally :D
Truth Seeker
3 years ago,
Registered user
> The FPA tries to help save the world from forex scams.

Thanks to you and FPA.. thnaks for reminding us to be grateful.
tonka
3 years ago,
Registered user
Pharaoh had an Excellent speech. I think a lot of people may agree with him.
Whitesnake
3 years ago,
Registered user
> I really love your post pharaoh! If one day I manage to obtain constant profit with Forex (or with any other work that i might be doing) I would be donating for abandoned animals... even now i actully..

That's really nice and very kind of you for being generous to help the helpess animals. I wish that you make some good money in the forex trading business and do much more such good deeds which improves the stay in this world. I also wish to build a charity house and help the old people and homeless and needy individuals.
richard56
a year ago,
Registered user
Many thanks to Pharaoh and all previous writers!
Everything is ok and I can agree to whtever your are trading/method etc
There is Holy grail.
Here is my 2 cents: whatever you are earning share it generously.
There are two sides who are getting happy: yourself and the other side.
Rizog
7 months ago,
Registered user
That makes me your fan Pharaoh..! Absolutely correct logic and conclusion. The key question is, what am I doing to make this world a better place? And putting 10% of trading profits is one way of contributing to a better world. But please do your research on whom you are entrusting your money with.
GANDUS
19 days ago,
Registered user
Gandus
Great article. well some of us are still going through the stress process but I hope surely I will get, and fore sure donate for someone to be better off. an orphan, some widow or just a nursery home. You got it right. pray for some of us, the stresses of learning to trade.