• Please try to select the correct prefix when making a new thread in this folder.

    Discuss is for general discussions of a financial company or issues related to companies.

    Info is for things like "Has anyone heard of Company X?" or "Is Company X legit or not?"

    Compare is for things like "Which of these 2 (or more) companies is best?"

    Searching is for things like "Help me pick a broker" or "What's the best VPS out there for trading?"

    Problem is for reporting an issue with a company. Please don't just scream "CompanyX is a scam!" It is much more useful to say "I can't withdraw my money from Company X" or "Company Y is not honoring their refund guarantee" in the subject line.
    Keep Problem discussions civil and lay out the facts of your case. Your goal should be to get your problem resolved or reported to the regulators, not to see how many insults you can put into the thread.

    More info coming soon.

Must-have charting software

Triantus Shango

Sergeant Major
Messages
1,371
for those who don't know me, i am a nutcase when it comes to GUI and UX (user experience). perhaps it is because in another lifetime i started out as a front-ent software developer designing GUIs. the interface is an obsession of mine. for ex., look at what apple has accomplished by acknowledging how pathetic current interfaces were for desktop computers, MP3 players, and later cellphones. and what did apple do? they said: screw this sh**, we can do much better. and they did.

when it comes to charting software, the situation is kind of the same. lots of garbage out there from a UI/UX design standpoint. and since it's a pet peeve of mine, i am continuously dissatisfied, frustrated, angered even by the abysmal and shoddy design of charting interfaces. so i look and look, continuously trying to find some app that finally will not induce a splitting headache but rather feel intuitive to use, responsive, fast, reliable, and customizable.

take this for what you will, but here is my biased opinion:

tradingview.com is the best designed and has the best UX of anything i have ever used. it's a dream come true. (except for the feed that rarely can be unavailable, but RARELY).

and Sierra Charts. you owe it to yourself to try Sierra Charts out. i kid you not. and don't let the plethora of menu options overwhelm you. once you have a good idea of what functionality you need most often, and where it is--you can put it all in your own customized toolbar for ex--then it's a breeze to move, resize charts around, display/hide indicators without having to go through the remove/attach/configure cycle (not to mention all the menu clicking that entails), trade direct from the chart, or the DOM that you can overlay on the chart itself, see RT volume info from the DOM on the chart as well, historical data, free FX and CFD feed, and the best part when switching time frame, the screen repaints sooo fast... it's just great. the best.

ok, 'nuff said.
 
Last edited:
for those who don't know me, i am a nutcase when it comes to GUI and UX (user experience). perhaps it is because in another lifetime i started out as a front-ent software developer designing GUIs. the interface is an obsession of mine. for ex., look at what apple has accomplished by acknowledging how pathetic current interfaces were for desktop computers, MP3 players, and later cellphones. and what did apple do? they said: screw this sh**, we can do much better. and they did.

when it comes to charting software, the situation is kind of the same. lots of garbage out there from a UI/UX design standpoint. and since it's a pet peeve of mine, i am continuously dissatisfied, frustrated, angered even by the abysmal and shoddy design of charting interfaces. so i look and look, continuously trying to find some app that finally will not induce a splitting headache but rather feel intuitive to use, responsive, fast, reliable, and customizable.

take this for what you will, but here is my biased opinion:

tradingview.com is the best designed and has the best UX of anything i have ever used. it's a dream come true. (except for the feed that rarely can be unavailable, but RARELY).

and Sierra Charts. you owe it to yourself to try Sierra Charts out. i kid you not. and don't let the plethora of menu options overwhelm you. once you have a good idea of what functionality you need most often, and where it is--you can put it all in your own customized toolbar for ex--then it's a breeze to move, resize charts around, display/hide indicators without having to go through the remove/attach/configure cycle (not to mention all the menu clicking that entails), trade direct from the chart, or the DOM that you can overlay on the chart itself, see RT volume info from the DOM on the chart as well, historical data, free FX and CFD feed, and the best part when switching time frame, the screen repaints sooo fast... it's just great. the best.

ok, 'nuff said.


Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
 
By charting software you mean trading terminal like Mt4 or trade station? That is a must thing to have and we cannot trade without this platform.
 
by charting software i mean a software application, a computer program, that does only one thing: take in a data stream of market prices and give it a visual representation in a 2D cartesian space (that is, along 2 dimensions, X- and Y-axis), that is, a price chart. and additional functionality such as letting user draw graphical objects on top of that or under as technical indicators.

BUT if it also happens to include trading functionality, i.e. order management features, then great as long as it is properly designed, and by that i mean that it should be intuitive, easy, and fast to use. the meaning of fast and what is acceptable to you in that regard should be decided based upon your overall time horizon.

now, that being said, some charting software does include order management functionality. MT4 does. Multichart too. Sierra Chart also. TradeStation does. tradingview.com does not. (there are plenty of other charting software out there, so by no means is this an exhaustive list.)

for the purposes of this discussion, we distinguish charting from order management functionality. in other words, an app that provides order management functionality has only one purpose and that is to display the rates of tradeable instruments, manage your account(s), monitor open positions, pending orders, order history, and the order book.

it is more important to have a good charting app with no order management functionality than a mediocre charting app that also does order management. the reason for this is that brokers can and should provide a stand-alone account/order management app. it's a no-brainer. brokers that cater to professional traders do offer that and let the clients choose their own charting solution. so you can always enter your orders no matter what, even if you have the greatest charting software in the world that does not offer order management.

put another way, there is no reason whatsoever why clients should get only 1 choice of app: a charting app that also allows order management instead of getting a choice of charting apps (with or without order management functionality), and another app that only does order management, rates, order book display, and so on.

order, account, and order book management functionality is the most basic and essential functionality without which no one can trade. if it is not decoupled from a mediocre charting app, then you are stuck with something that might slow you down, become more of a liability than an asset.

and if the order management platform is decoupled, then you get now at least 2 choices on how to enter your orders: either via the chart or via the order management app.

this is an important consideration because you should always have a redundant solution available. meaning, it is a good idea to be able to enter and manage orders via an order management console or 'terminal' (that does not mean it includes charts). if you also have that same functionality available through a charting app, then that's great. if the chart app should crash, then you can always fall back on the order management terminal to close trades if/when necessary (especially if stops are not executed in case of total market meltdown). and vice-versa. sure, the phone should always be handy as well.

finally, if your broker only offers MT4 as an interface to the market, and nothing else to manage your orders, then i'd say you should start looking somewhere else to get a more professional level of service.

because at the end of the day, since we know that professionals or the interbank market do not use MT4 for charting, then you probably will not be seeing what they are seeing when you use MT4. i am not saying this because RFEDs data feed quality is not that good, but because the set of professional indicators available on the professional platforms are simply not available on MT4 and therefore there is a whole lot of stuff that might escape you if you only look at pivots or the MACD and so on. for example: the DiNapoli tools are not officially available on MT4; all you get is some reverse engineered ones, and have to trust that the individual who did it did not make a mistake.

so, in conclusion, yes: charting software is essential; yes: an order management app is also essential; that the two be integrated is not essential, only convenient; and no: MT4 is certainly not essential. i can tell you this much: my trading most definitely improved when i finally stopped using MT4.

hope this helps.


By charting software you mean trading terminal like Mt4 or trade station? That is a must thing to have and we cannot trade without this platform.
 
Thanks for pointing those two out. I will surely give them a look and see. So you stopped using MT4?
 
indeed. it's been tradingview.com and recently sierra chart as well, which was recommended by my new broker. i don't know why, but on their website they only mention Multichart to connect to their servers, but honestly, i eventually got pissed off with some of the MC UI features as it would slow me down. also, different charting packages come with a different set of technical indicators and in this case sierra chart is more complete than MC. to be fair, one can find user created scripts online (not always free) for those missing technicals but again, same issue as with MT4: how do we know the technical indicator was programmed properly if there isn't a vendor standing behind it to vouch for its quality? personally i don't have time to mess around with scripts and a platform's idiosyncrasies just to debug some code that should already be guaranteed to work. but mess i did, and there are a few weird hiccups with MC at times that just make you realize it is not worth the time.
surprisingly, it's the same company that does tradingview.com, and that app is just awesome from a UI/UX perspective. now if they could only make it a little bit more responsive and improve the data feed, it'd be perfect.


before i forget, there's an Austrian company that makes a charting app called TeleTrader. i haven't tried it yet, but what caught my eye is that it comes with an exhaustive number of technical indicators, more than sierra chart, especially it has the MESA indicator created by john ehler, which i believe is a paying package on eSignal. and based on their description, you can easily drag and drop technical indicators around a chart, from the indicator's dedicated window region drop it onto the main price chart (tradingview.com does that too), or even feed one indicator into another one as input very easily and straightforwardly. the latter feature i like a lot: as an example: RSI input to Stochastic gives you the StochRSI. with sierra, in the indicator selection dialog window, you can specify whether you want the price to be the main input to the indicator or some other indicator, all with a click of the mouse. that's more user friendly.


as to your last question, i will answer it by recasting the issue. if i want to trade, i need to see what is relevant. some charting apps come with some built-in tools/functionality that let's you filter the noise from the relevant data more than other apps. it could be something just as simple as displaying graphs and price action more clearly, which is the case of tradingview.com--for example, we all know that we shouldn't have like 10 indicators/overlays going all at once on the same chart because it becomes next to impossible to see anything in the tangle of squiggly lines. but let's say that all these 10 indicators are filtering for different features of the price action and it would be nice to be able to switch quickly between one set of filter to another in the middle of fast and furious (sorry, couldn't help it ;)) action.


well, with MT4 the procedure would be terribly cumbersome: you either would have to clear the chart by deleting some, and re-applying the other indicators that belong to another set, or just have as many charts with the same time frame as you have sets of indicators you want to display; or remove/re-apply templates. just not an elegant solution and wasting additional CPU/RAM resources.


but with tradingview.com all you have to do is decide how many time frames you need, create one single template that remembers all the technical indicators you want attached to your charts, apply it to all the charts, and when looking at the chart you can simply make all the indicators that you don't need at that moment invisible by simply clicking on the 'eye' icon next to the indicator's name. that will toggle the indicator on/off in no time. it takes only one click, no matter how crazy price action is at the time. it's a great feature: fast and easy. no right clicking, navigating submenus, and so on: just one click and you are done. great for newbies whose hand might be shaking if market decided to suddenly go wild at the time.


also, all indicator values are computed in the cloud, so you do not run in the stupid issue that plagues MT4 of having too many scripts running on your local machine uselessly burning up precious CPU cycles (especially considering that their scripting engine is crap compared to Google's V8 Javascript engine).


so to give an example of a set up with tradingview.com, lest some of you think i completely lost it because i mentioned 10 indicators. sometimes, say, i want to check where the price is at relative to the standard deviation--so i hide everything, and make the bollinger bands visible, then hide them again if i don't need them. or i toggle some key MAs on and off. toggle the fib retracements on/off, or the pivots points, or the highs/lows, etc... i can therefore customize my view of the market with a repertoire of filters as the situation requires. BUT i never have more than 2 or 3 indicators on at the same time (if we don't count fib retracements/projections).


you can do that too with sierra but it is not as user friendly as you would have to call up a dialog window, select the indicator, click 'hide', and then dismiss the dialog. 4 steps instead of 1.


also, the other thing i don't like about sierra is that there are way too many menu options and you can get lost in there real easy. also the DOM overlayed on the chart doesn't scale well and is pretty much useless. so you have to bring it up in its own window, which works fine as in any other platform, and since Sierra talks FIX, you can see the book 20 levels deep if that's what you want.


sierra also let's you trade direct from the chart, quickly and easily: you can customize the right click menu to list a plethora of different order types; order sizes can also be preconfigured in advance; OCO, TTOs or bracket orders can be pre-configured to automatically attach themselves to your main market or limit order so all you have to do is click one order type, your order gets processed all set up properly with SL and TP set at desired and preset offsets that you would have specified well in advance of the trading session so that in the heat of the moment you do not need to mess around with this or that button. set, click, and forget. and no need to attach some ridiculous script to enable any of this functionality as it is built-in. as it should be. (take that MT4.)


the result of all this is that tradingview.com and sierra chart used together give me not only a redundant solution, but also allow me to refine my system further to let me see the market in a whole new light (special thanks to sierra for that actually as it provides a set of indicators that when combined (only 3), well... let's just say it works beautifully).


hope this helps... ok back to trading... ain't got all day after all. ;-)






So which one/s did you switch to? TradingView and Sierra? if yes, how do you like them so far?


In what way did your trading improve after leaving MT4 behind?
 
Which new broker, if you dont mind? you only trade with 1 broker now? (you can PM it to me if you prefer)
 
Which new broker, if you dont mind? you only trade with 1 broker now? (you can PM it to me if you prefer)

no problem, i don't mind disclosing whom i trade with. actually i am happy to tell because this was such a sore point when i started out... whenever i used to ask that same question, for whatever weird reason no one wanted to say, as if everyone was so afraid of god knows what. ridiculous. so here it is:

- LMAX
- RJOBrien (UK), which basically is Integral FX

re Integral, another broker uses them in Spain: Interdin.com and am looking at them currently but they are starting to seriously piss me off now. i've been waiting for days to get some reply to my emails and still nothing. on the chat, no one seems fluent enough in English, so they tell you they'll follow up offline... but then nothing bloody happens. now, i have been playing around with their platform and there are a few issues that do not make it the best:

- the order management interface is built on Microsoft tech, ASPX: first red flag; it does log you out automatically wihtout asking you, which is really terrible because if suddenly you want to use the web page to close a trade, well, tough luck.

- SPOT currencies did not come online until it was 6PM in Auckland!!! which means that if you like to trade the JPY crosses first thing on Monday when New Zealand opens, well too bad, you can't because the boys at Interdin are still fast asleep! and for those who know what i am talking about, it's like shooting ducks in a barrel to trade the JPY on Monday morning. a good trade on Monday morning and you can go back to sleep for the rest of the week, i am not kidding; so having the broker take that opportunity away from you is more than a minor bummer--it is a downright f@^k#$g annoyance of colossal magnitude!

- curiously, XAUUSD was up and running when the market opened on Monday, so go figure.

- one of the chart provider they use, ProRealTime, has a bug: you can't displace MA horizontally; to be fair, it is IT-Finance's fault since they are the ones who wrote the charting module used by ProRealTime. anyway, it is a nice app though, and the bug is easily fixed; the scripting language is based on BASIC.


but that lack of customer support is just plain scary. so for now, hands off i guess.

all the best in your trading.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top