Ponzi Scheme TadawulME / Exential Group:

[investorone]

I have S&S Brokerage's Central Bank license in front of me as I type this. One line should give any investor in Exential pause: "Please note that this license does not permit the holder to accept deposits or manage others' funds in any form whatsoever."

Forget any authorization letter. Exential seems to be using an innocuous IB agreement with a seemingly legit company (S&S) that is not licensed to manage others' funds in order to manage others' funds with shady offshore brokers (FCI and ELP).

And why should S&S' license even matter to you when there's no evidence investor funds ever go directly through them? Got the wool over your eyes, man.



...why is this nowhere online besides their newsletter? You would think they'd have Hungarian and/or Saudi sites up and running if this were actually the case.

Are you an investor in Exential? If yes and you are 110% in doubt about the legitimacy of the company then pull out your investment. As I’ve said NO ONE is stopping ANYONE from doing this. Put your money somewhere else. Don’t stress yourself on the company. This thread is existing since August 2014. A lot of information had been given. If people decided to stay in the company after reading this information then it’s their choice. It’s their money anyways and not yours. They have their own risk appetite. I think it’s simple as that.

 

[FXburner]

Are you an investor in Exential? If yes and you are 110% in doubt about the legitimacy of the company then pull out your investment. As I’ve said NO ONE is stopping ANYONE from doing this. Put your money somewhere else. Don’t stress yourself on the company. This thread is existing since August 2014. A lot of information had been given. If people decided to stay in the company after reading this information then it’s their choice. It’s their money anyways and not yours. They have their own risk appetite. I think it’s simple as that.

And this seems to be how most of the conversations of the past year have gone, both here and on other forums. A commenter calls "BS" on something the company does and a company supporter/investor replies with 'mind your business' (or 'haters gonna hate,' or 'well i'm making money') instead of having any fact-based response that might actually support the company's legitimacy.

Anyway, I'm not so worried about people staying invested in this as I am about naive potential investors being recruited into this fraud. When the crash goes down, it'll go down hard and bring many people's savings with it.

 

[investorone]

And this seems to be how most of the conversations of the past year have gone, both here and on other forums. A commenter calls "BS" on something the company does and a company supporter/investor replies with 'mind your business' (or 'haters gonna hate,' or 'well i'm making money') instead of having any fact-based response that might actually support the company's legitimacy.

Anyway, I'm not so worried about people staying invested in this as I am about naive potential investors being recruited into this fraud. When the crash goes down, it'll go down hard and bring many people's savings with it.

What other possible facts that you think is lacking on this thread? The information on this thread is more than enough for an investor to decide whether the Company is a scam or legitimate one. Do you have some more to add? Then by all means put it on this thread.

If you’re concern about the naïve potential investors to be recruited I don’t think they are that stupid and they will just put down their hard earned money without considering the information on this thread.

 

[FXburner]

What other possible facts that you think is lacking on this thread? The information on this thread is more than enough for an investor to decide whether the Company is a scam or legitimate one. Do you have some more to add? Then by all means put it on this thread.

If you’re concern about the naïve potential investors to be recruited I don’t think they are that stupid and they will just put down their hard earned money without considering the information on this thread.

OK buddy. I don't know if you're an employee or just an accidental shill, but you posted your "information" only a few posts above mine. You posted an excerpt from a newsletter that had already been posted upthread, I responded with criticism, and you're now trying to shut down conversation instead of discussing the concerns raised. Not a good look.



Anyway,

 

[SilentSpectator]

OK buddy. I don't know if you're an employee or just an accidental shill, but you posted your "information" only a few posts above mine. You posted an excerpt from a newsletter that had already been posted upthread, I responded with criticism, and you're now trying to shut down conversation instead of discussing the concerns raised. Not a good look.



Anyway,

Sigh... This is what I was talking about previously.

Pro Exential posts keep getting curbstomped by arguments doubting its legitimacy...

 

[Pharaoh]

Mr Pharaoh - which pre-existing company did Exential acquired? Would you know?

If you want an "older" company, just find a firm that specializes in corporate registrations. They often have clients who decide to sell companies that really only exist on paper.

I can't be certain that this is the case with Exential, but it is a possibility that needs to be checked. Just saying "The company was registered X years ago" does not prove anything about the true age of the current operation.

My point was never about lovin this company or that one , my point is to be profitable with the lowest risk that can be taken , i ve achieved that with exential , and if anyone else in the region has the same consistency i will also give them a try . and for your info , they provide statments upon request and it used to be mailed daily b4 and now it shows on everyones interface!

Are these statements from the broker or from Exential? If the statements are not DIRECTLY from the broker, then there is no way to be certain that your money is really being traded.

and for the IB theory , i dont know how did u manage to come up with it when u can see clearly whats the spread like when u target small pips!! counter companies who came to scare b4 did exactly what u said and what i mentioned b4 to legally scam investors in live accounts and they wiped out loads of accounts eventually and made a huge bit of $$$ , when they gave investors live viewin and f@kd em with 50$ commission per trade in FX!! not to mention ofcourse their rebate from the broker spread ! point is everyone knows u can make money like that without the need for a ponzi , but thats a bigger scam in my opinion !!

Not all brokers widen the spread for IBs, so that narrow spreads don't prove whether or not a company is getting a payback on each trade. I've seen too many accounts with very good brokers get wiped out by churning to not mention this as a possible way for an account manager to scam innocent clients.

Then again, I haven't seen one client's broker statement in this thread yet, so there's no way to tell if anyone really has a live account with a broker or of that's some clever fiction that Exnential/TadawulME has somehow created.

at least here they show u what they do , they are licensed with the central bank through their business partner broker and their very existence is a challenge for the ponzi theory !
and to point out to the website u mentioned , i think the width in btw the two is VAST ! so again not being in love with this company but being in love with the consistency that is irritating u makes me very comfortable in my seat ! although somethin i ve noticed in a previous post of urs is that u think 9 or 10 % per month is too much !! i really dont know how or were do u trade , it confuses me that u can say that !!
and they never acquired any company b4 !! so im not sure if ur talkin about exential or someone else !

So you've personally checked with all the regulators to make sure that this "license via partner" is both true and valid?

And you've personally pulled the corporate registration info to make certain the same individual have owned the corporate entity since it was established?

Even if you have, that's not final proof. Bernie Madoff ran a legitimate and licensed investment firm for a long time before entering the Ponzi zone. PFG Best was a well respected NFA regulated broker that stole vast sums of money from clients. In both cases, the criminal activity continued for years. In both cases, a few people spotted red flags, but were shouted down by those who were more so hypnotized by the return ON their money that they couldn't be bothered to listen to any possible reasons to worry about the return OF their money.

Sigh... This is what I was talking about previously.

Pro Exential posts keep getting curbstomped by arguments doubting its legitimacy...

Seems to me that the Pro-Exential/Tadawulme posts just need to use logic and check some facts. If they do, they might even get me to invest.

On the other hand, if investors can't see their real statements directly from the broker where the money is supposed to be, how can they know if this isn't just one more "too good to be true".

Remeber this: Short of breaking into a company's offices and checking all the books, Ponzi's are very hard to prove, even if all the warning signs are blatant. It is ALWAYS up to any investment company to prove its returns are legitimate. Legitimate investment companies know this and are ready to address any questions, provide audited results, etc.


If you don't want to believe me (even after I've had this exact same argument with "true believers" in other investments that turned out to be Ponzi's), why not ask the regulators?

ASIC's list of Ponzi warning signs is:

The rate of return is suspiciously high - maybe as high as 10% per month (120% per year)

The person who tries to recruit you is someone you think is trustworthy, like a neighbour or someone in your church or community group

The recruiter may have already invested in the scheme and received great dividends


Here's a list of Ponzi warning signs directly from a CFTC publication:

1. If it sounds too good to be true, it is.

2. The investment promises little or no risk of loss or promises you won't lose money.

3. Profits or rates of return on an investment are guaranteed regardless of the direction of markets.

4. The investment is difficult to understand or incomprehensible.

5. There is a need for secrecy. Not being able to get written information about a potential investment should raise suspicions.


ActionFraud's list of Ponzi warning signs is:

High returns at low risk

Complex investment strategy

High-pressure sales pitches

Difficult-to-get-in sales pitches

Incentives for investor recruitment


If you don't believe me and don't want to believe government agencies from 3 different countries, why not spend $50 or $100 to get a consultation from a well qualified, government certified accountant. Show him/her everything you have about your account with Tadawulme/Exential group. Ask how to verify that the statements of claimed profits are real. Ask of those claimed licenses are valid for the business being conducted. After all, if you are willing to risk many thousands of dollars on this scheme, why not spend $50 or $100 to get the opinion of an accounting expert?


What's always funny in threads like this is how not one of the cheerleaders who swears something absolutely cannot be a Ponzi ever comes back to post after it crashes. AsstModerator even emailed all of them from the MyTirn case asking them to come back and rejoin the discussion. None ever did.

 

[investorone]

OK buddy. I don't know if you're an employee or just an accidental shill, but you posted your "information" only a few posts above mine. You posted an excerpt from a newsletter that had already been posted upthread, I responded with criticism, and you're now trying to shut down conversation instead of discussing the concerns raised. Not a good look.



Anyway,

Discussing concerns? What other concerns that needs to be discussed here? Just look at all the post of Pharaoh. Are these not enough concerns for a potential investor to weigh in whether the company is legitimate or scam before giving their hard earned money?

And you still looking for a fact based response. Do you think those will change your opinion a bit? I don’t think so! Your brain already nailed an opinion that the company is a scam OR probably you’re not interested at all whether the Company is legitimate as you’re intention is not to find out whether it is. And please don’t give me that statement that you’re concern for those naïve potential investors. Get real and stop bull****ting yourself.

I’m not an employee. I’m an investor who has done due diligence before opening an account. Looking at Pharao’s last post those are the concerns I’ve asked. There are some answers that I’m not 100% satisfied but those are the risks that I’m willing to take.

 

[SurfO]

If you want an "older" company, just find a firm that specializes in corporate registrations. They often have clients who decide to sell companies that really only exist on paper.

I can't be certain that this is the case with Exential, but it is a possibility that needs to be checked. Just saying "The company was registered X years ago" does not prove anything about the true age of the current operation.



Are these statements from the broker or from Exential? If the statements are not DIRECTLY from the broker, then there is no way to be certain that your money is really being traded.



Not all brokers widen the spread for IBs, so that narrow spreads don't prove whether or not a company is getting a payback on each trade. I've seen too many accounts with very good brokers get wiped out by churning to not mention this as a possible way for an account manager to scam innocent clients.

Then again, I haven't seen one client's broker statement in this thread yet, so there's no way to tell if anyone really has a live account with a broker or of that's some clever fiction that Exnential/TadawulME has somehow created.



So you've personally checked with all the regulators to make sure that this "license via partner" is both true and valid?

And you've personally pulled the corporate registration info to make certain the same individual have owned the corporate entity since it was established?

Even if you have, that's not final proof. Bernie Madoff ran a legitimate and licensed investment firm for a long time before entering the Ponzi zone. PFG Best was a well respected NFA regulated broker that stole vast sums of money from clients. In both cases, the criminal activity continued for years. In both cases, a few people spotted red flags, but were shouted down by those who were more so hypnotized by the return ON their money that they couldn't be bothered to listen to any possible reasons to worry about the return OF their money.




Seems to me that the Pro-Exential/Tadawulme posts just need to use logic and check some facts. If they do, they might even get me to invest.

On the other hand, if investors can't see their real statements directly from the broker where the money is supposed to be, how can they know if this isn't just one more "too good to be true".

Remeber this: Short of breaking into a company's offices and checking all the books, Ponzi's are very hard to prove, even if all the warning signs are blatant. It is ALWAYS up to any investment company to prove its returns are legitimate. Legitimate investment companies know this and are ready to address any questions, provide audited results, etc.


If you don't want to believe me (even after I've had this exact same argument with "true believers" in other investments that turned out to be Ponzi's), why not ask the regulators?

ASIC's list of Ponzi warning signs is:

The rate of return is suspiciously high - maybe as high as 10% per month (120% per year)

The person who tries to recruit you is someone you think is trustworthy, like a neighbour or someone in your church or community group

The recruiter may have already invested in the scheme and received great dividends


Here's a list of Ponzi warning signs directly from a CFTC publication:

1. If it sounds too good to be true, it is.

2. The investment promises little or no risk of loss or promises you won't lose money.

3. Profits or rates of return on an investment are guaranteed regardless of the direction of markets.

4. The investment is difficult to understand or incomprehensible.

5. There is a need for secrecy. Not being able to get written information about a potential investment should raise suspicions.


ActionFraud's list of Ponzi warning signs is:

High returns at low risk

Complex investment strategy

High-pressure sales pitches

Difficult-to-get-in sales pitches

Incentives for investor recruitment


If you don't believe me and don't want to believe government agencies from 3 different countries, why not spend $50 or $100 to get a consultation from a well qualified, government certified accountant. Show him/her everything you have about your account with Tadawulme/Exential group. Ask how to verify that the statements of claimed profits are real. Ask of those claimed licenses are valid for the business being conducted. After all, if you are willing to risk many thousands of dollars on this scheme, why not spend $50 or $100 to get the opinion of an accounting expert?


What's always funny in threads like this is how not one of the cheerleaders who swears something absolutely cannot be a Ponzi ever comes back to post after it crashes. AsstModerator even emailed all of them from the MyTirn case asking them to come back and rejoin the discussion. None ever did.

at least here they show u what they do , they are licensed with the central bank through their business partner broker and their very existence is a challenge for the ponzi theory !
and to point out to the website u mentioned , i think the width in btw the two is VAST ! so again not being in love with this company but being in love with the consistency that is irritating u makes me very comfortable in my seat ! although somethin i ve noticed in a previous post of urs is that u think 9 or 10 % per month is too much !! i really dont know how or were do u trade , it confuses me that u can say that !!
and they never acquired any company b4 !! so im not sure if ur talkin about exential or someone else !
So you've personally checked with all the regulators to make sure that this "license via partner" is both true and valid?

And you've personally pulled the corporate registration info to make certain the same individual have owned the corporate entity since it was established?

Even if you have, that's not final proof. Bernie Madoff ran a legitimate and licensed investment firm for a long time before entering the Ponzi zone. PFG Best was a well respected NFA regulated broker that stole vast sums of money from clients. In both cases, the criminal activity continued for years. In both cases, a few people spotted red flags, but were shouted down by those who were more so hypnotized by the return ON their money that they couldn't be bothered to listen to any possible reasons to worry about the return OF their money.

Well to answer you in short , yes i did do my homework on their paper work , offices , partners and all the related issues which can point that they can actually run away with my money ! I EVEN FOUND OUT WERE THEIR PARENTS LIVE !! and u think im a cheerleader who is emotional and just defending my investment !! lol , i pitty u or who ever have the same opinion !! why on earth would i risk my money like that if it was a scam !!
my peace of mind in all of this actually not the assurance that i ve checked on all the licenses or offices , owners , related brokers or whatever !!
my peace of mind comes from me knowin that this percentage can actually be made on monthly basis easily when few requirements are gathered and available ! and im mean technically ! M i sure that these trades are possible ? 100% . M i sure that these pips can be made !! 100% . they have the spread and the leverage ! the trading tools and the experience , the safe routine and consistency ! so why on earth wouldnt i invest ?
if u tell me that these pips cant be made or won in order to reach this percentage then point out technically into how and why ?? but if u cant and u agree that as u claim this account is not mirrored and its not accurate and the numbers does not match and myfxbook is not to be trusted and there no audit available and no broker statements and no and no and no and no ......bro , u keep mentioning on how ur willing to invest if proven otherwise !! right ! how about a face to face meeting were u convince me and then i ll walk u to their company and pull my money in ur presence as my financial adviser !! and i hand u 5000$ for saving me from this scam !!! or u cant prove **** and u hand me 5000$ as for the time i wasted entertaining ur statements !! make sense !!

 

[Pharaoh]

Some people visited the offices of Ponzi scammers. From the thread about CRE Capital Corp:

I have personally visited their operation and although it is a nice office in a nice building, I have not been able to get any documentation verifying they are doing anything they say they are doing nor have I been able to obtain any trading statements or seen any reserve account statements they may or may not have.

With only a little more work, this person could have tracked down the addresses of the relatives of the scammers.

And some people get in based on the qualities of the other investors. From the thread about MyTIRN:

I don't know what more to say. I am a fairly good judgment of people and the people I have met are just everyday hard working people. Some of the investors are pillars of the community. Some are entertainers, bankers, attorneys, and restaurant owners. Some are so confident that they took their churches money and invested in TIRN. I hope it's not a scam or these guys have a lot of explaining to do.

Those guys had a LOT of explaining to do.


Regarding your challenge, you are asking me to convince you. I said I would invest if you convinced me. It is obvious that you cannot be convinced by anything short of criminal charges being filed. Is it possible to make big returns? Yes. It it possible to reliably make the claimed returns, month after month? The economic law of risk vs. reward clearly says No. The history of companies which have made similar claims clearly says No.

On the other hand, I can be convinced by evidence. This is a BIG claim, so I will require strong evidence. If the company is legitimate, this evidence will be easy for you and for them to provide. If the company is legitimate, they'll want to provide evidence to convert doubters into investors. Therefor, I will grant you something that's been given to very few people or companies who have made big claims. I am issuing a Pharaoh Challenge.

Provide the following evidence:

1. Show broker trading statements on your account from the date of initial deposit that shows monthly returns at least as much as claimed.

2. Show broker statements on at least 3 other broker statements on accounts starting with at least $10k dating back to within 18 months of the company being founded (all statements must be from broker(s) regulated by a government agency). These statements should show monthly returns at least as much as claimed. I will require the investor password to all of the accounts in items 1 and 2 to verify them.

3. Show an audit of the company's trading returns for 2013 and 2014 by an established and well regulated accounting firm. I will need to verify the authenticity of the letter with the accounting firm as well as verifying their credentials.

4. Show a letter from the regulator (who's regulation they are "borrowing" from their partner) which verifies that this business is indeed fully covered by the regulator and is operating 100% within the law while producing these returns. I will need contact information for the regulatory agency to verify the authenticity and accuracy of the letter.

If you can provide all of this, once I've verified that everything is correct, I'll do the following:

1. I'll invest and give you half the amazing profits you claim I'll be getting for the next 2 years (which should come to far more that the $5k you asked for).

2. I'll personally endorse the company (something I've never done). Quite a few FPA members will jump in if I tell them I've found a real investment which can safely offer returns of this magnitude.

3. I'll also nominate the company for a Nobel Prize in Economics. I don't know how far this will go, but anyone who can do the economic miracles you claim deserves this prize.

4. I'll write to my state's Senators and Representatives, as well as to President Obama and suggest that America invest a few trillion dollars to resolve the US national debt crisis. If Obama balks, I'll follow up with his replacement after the next election - and will include my trading statements to prove how good this really is.

The value, both to you and the company would be immense, so there's absolutely no reason to not quickly provide all of the information. If you can't get it all the needed evidence together within the next 7 days, the only penalty I ask is that you admit failure, admit that this "investment" cannot be verified, admit that it shows significant warning signs of being a Ponzi scheme, and then stop publicly defending and endorsing the company. If you really want to keep your money in (and possibly end up making a profit based on the losses of those who come in after you), I'll leave that up to your conscience. The clock starts now. See how fast you can prove me wrong.


Ancient prophecy states that one day someone will come forth and win a Pharaoh Challenge, thus ushering in a golden age of unlimited free wealth for all who are bold enough to invest. Are you the one? Or, after the company disappears with a lot of money and/or charges are filed, will you also disappear, just like the people who vigorously defended CRE Capital, MyTIRN, and Secure Investment?

 

[SilentSpectator]

Some people visited the offices of Ponzi scammers. From the thread about CRE Capital Corp:

With only a little more work, this person could have tracked down the addresses of the relatives of the scammers.

And some people get in based on the qualities of the other investors. From the thread about MyTIRN:

Those guys had a LOT of explaining to do.


Regarding your challenge, you are asking me to convince you. I said I would invest if you convinced me. It is obvious that you cannot be convinced by anything short of criminal charges being filed. Is it possible to make big returns? Yes. It it possible to reliably make the claimed returns, month after month? The economic law of risk vs. reward clearly says No. The history of companies which have made similar claims clearly says No.

On the other hand, I can be convinced by evidence. This is a BIG claim, so I will require strong evidence. If the company is legitimate, this evidence will be easy for you and for them to provide. If the company is legitimate, they'll want to provide evidence to convert doubters into investors. Therefor, I will grant you something that's been given to very few people or companies who have made big claims. I am issuing a Pharaoh Challenge.

Provide the following evidence:

1. Show broker trading statements on your account from the date of initial deposit that shows monthly returns at least as much as claimed.

2. Show broker statements on at least 3 other broker statements on accounts starting with at least $10k dating back to within 18 months of the company being founded (all statements must be from broker(s) regulated by a government agency). These statements should show monthly returns at least as much as claimed. I will require the investor password to all of the accounts in items 1 and 2 to verify them.

3. Show an audit of the company's trading returns for 2013 and 2014 by an established and well regulated accounting firm. I will need to verify the authenticity of the letter with the accounting firm as well as verifying their credentials.

4. Show a letter from the regulator (who's regulation they are "borrowing" from their partner) which verifies that this business is indeed fully covered by the regulator and is operating 100% within the law while producing these returns. I will need contact information for the regulatory agency to verify the authenticity and accuracy of the letter.

If you can provide all of this, once I've verified that everything is correct, I'll do the following:

1. I'll invest and give you half the amazing profits you claim I'll be getting for the next 2 years (which should come to far more that the $5k you asked for).

2. I'll personally endorse the company (something I've never done). Quite a few FPA members will jump in if I tell them I've found a real investment which can safely offer returns of this magnitude.

3. I'll also nominate the company for a Nobel Prize in Economics. I don't know how far this will go, but anyone who can do the economic miracles you claim deserves this prize.

4. I'll write to my state's Senators and Representatives, as well as to President Obama and suggest that America invest a few trillion dollars to resolve the US national debt crisis. If Obama balks, I'll follow up with his replacement after the next election - and will include my trading statements to prove how good this really is.

The value, both to you and the company would be immense, so there's absolutely no reason to not quickly provide all of the information. If you can't get it all the needed evidence together within the next 7 days, the only penalty I ask is that you admit failure, admit that this "investment" cannot be verified, admit that it shows significant warning signs of being a Ponzi scheme, and then stop publicly defending and endorsing the company. If you really want to keep your money in (and possibly end up making a profit based on the losses of those who come in after you), I'll leave that up to your conscience. The clock starts now. See how fast you can prove me wrong.


Ancient prophecy states that one day someone will come forth and win a Pharaoh Challenge, thus ushering in a golden age of unlimited free wealth for all who are bold enough to invest. Are you the one? Or, after the company disappears with a lot of money and/or charges are filed, will you also disappear, just like the people who vigorously defended CRE Capital, MyTIRN, and Secure Investment?

I hope they accept and meet the Pharoah challenge. I've been thinking about doubling my exposure. Heck if they win the challenge I'll even quadruple my investment!