Ponzi Scheme TadawulME / Exential Group:

[Pharaoh]

I'd like to remind everyone that EACH AND EVERY INVESTOR in a well-run Ponzi will have a perfect or near-perfect experience, up until the bitter end. Ponzi's are con games, and rely on investor CONfidence. What we have here isn't a simple throw-away HYIP site that's could go deposit only within the first few days of opening if investments are too small. Instead, we've got a scheme that seems to be primarily targeted at airline crew members. In general, this profession pays well enough that digging up $10k to try out the scheme isn't beyond the means of a significant number of the employees.

I've shown how Exential's promises hit the alarm bells on warnings issued by a number of major regulators around the world. I believe I've clearly shown multiple examples of Ponzi's that paid on time, every time for years. Big, well run Ponzi's only end in one of two ways:

1. The regulators step in. In cases like this, some of those profits some of you are happily spending can be clawed back. If the regulators get aggressive, they could even take an active interest in those who served as unofficial marketing officers for the scam. I hope they do.

2. Internal Collapse. The people behind Ponzi schemes don't live like monks. They skim a big chunk of money off the top each month. The also have to pay monthly dividends to investors and maintain nice offices to keep up the appearance of being a legitimate business. In the end, once outbound cash gets too close to inbound cash and there just aren't enough new investors to milk, they'll disappear into the night with all the money.

For those who say "I know the risks", that doesn't work so well. Sure, every investment has risks. However, a legitimate investment will clearly disclose those risks. Although there are exceptions, the majority of legitimate investment plans which go bad just end up losing some money, not in total instantaneous wipeouts of all assets. Your Ponzi "investment" is helping to keep a criminal enterprise afloat. Can you honestly say that each and every person who joins after you knows that it could disappear or be shut down with zero warning at any moment? Can you live with the fact that you know that each cent of profit you rake in was stolen from another investor (quite possibly a coworker in the case of Exential)? Can you live with the fact that you may have helped keep it afloat just long enough to wipe out some other person's life savings?

If you really have no ethics in your investment, why waste your time on a Ponzi when you can start a pyramid scheme? There's an old style one which works perfectly (until investors run out) and is based on the airline industry. Allow me to describe it to you:

There are 4 ranks on the plane. Pilot, Co-Pilot, Steward/Stewardess, and Passenger.

The total number of people per plane comes to: 1 pilot, 2 co-pilots, 4 steward/stewardesses, and 8 passengers.

You are get on the airplane as a passenger., recruited by a steward/stewardess. All new passengers pay a $1000 fee to the pilot. Once the pilot has collected $8000, he/she retires (but may return as a passenger).

The co-pilot above the person who recruited you is promoted to pilot. You now only have to recruit 2 new passengers to pay the new pilot $1000 each.

The new pilot collects a total of $8000 and retires. The copilot (who recruited you) becomes a pilot. You are promoted to co-pilot. Each of "your" passengers becomes a steward or stewardess and each recruits 2 passengers. If everyone does their job, the pilot collects $8000 and retires.

Finally, you move up to pilot. Within a few days, 8 passengers are recruited. Your $1000 became $8000 and all you had to do was recruit 2 people.

Guess what? It works, and it can keep working for a long time. Unlike a Ponzi, your money goes up 8 fold in a very short amount of time. There's no rule against signing onto multiple planes at once, and you can keep playing indefinitely.

Of course, it's obviously two things:
1. Illegal.
2. Unsustainable. Eventually, it becomes harder and harder to find new passengers.

So, if you don't mind a life of investment crime, you should just start a pyramid scam. If you don't mind being a criminal, at least you aren't as likely to destroy anyone's life, and everyone can fully understand how the so-called "investment" works instead of having some company make up BS excuses to explain unsustainable profits. Chances are that the prison time will be shorter too.

 

[totalpips]

Right team... seems like Exential / Tawadul has generated a load of interest over the last couple of months/weeks. Here is my version of dealing with them, from start to finish.

Opened a couple of accounts earlier this year. This was after looking at their history and speaking to one of their 'advisors'. As I've been around forex for a few years, I fired a multitude of questions at them, most were answered somewhat satisfactorily, however there were two questions where silence said more than an actual answer. I asked why does it take so long to conduct a withdrawal (in the stated terms 15 WORKING days) and why cant we have access to live view trades. The advisor looked at me like I had two heads and couldn't answer them. It takes me two days to withdraw an amount from most of the brokers I've used and 15 working days (effectively making it 3 weeks before money is released to your account), is backside puckering at the best of times. Also the ability (or in this case inability) to view lives trades as they happen ie investor access on MT4, was worrying.

I should have listened to my internal alarm bells at this stage, but seeing others make solid 7% returns month on month got the better of me. So I invested.

It took close to 7 days to setup the account, my part in all this took me one day to transfer money directly to them (why a managed forex account should actually physically hold your money was another alarm bell that I shouldn't have ignored), after which I was told I had to wait till the end of the month to get the best returns. So basically I waited until they were ready to begin trading my money. 6 days of no returns - well to be contrarian 6 days of no losses as well.

From there things went ok. I checked in daily to which I saw trades being taken and small increases in my overall equity. Things were looking great and I was looking forward to the end of the month, which I was told is when I should withdraw any profits. The first month whizzed by and in the end I received the stated 7% return. Alas it took 21 days (dont forget working days) to receive the amount withdrawn. The second month is where the problems began.

Month two saw an initial slow start - trades were being taken that defied logic and very small amounts were being added. Towards the end of the month, there were days of no updating on the backend portal... This was fine, as Exential have a commission structure and if under the stated amount is earned then you do not pay any commission and I thought if they keep this up, I will actually receive a bigger payout this month then previous, once commission exclusion is factored into the amount. I diligently watched the results and strangely on the last day leading up to the cutoff for the month, there were a significant amount of 'successful' trades taken that tipped me over the commission threshold. Literally $25 dollars over the commission threshold. I was a little pissed at this, as the difference between what could have been and what was, was very very different. Again, it could have been a great trading day, but looking a the small results throughout the month and days of no trading, it seemed very weird that on the day of cutoff, trades were taken to tip me over the threshold.

Month three saw much of the same as month two. Days of no trading, very small results and then in the run up to cutoff a flurry of 'successful' trades, to grab the commission.

It was at this point I decide my risk tolerance wasn't up to the a: the way trades magically appeared just before commission cutoff day and b: I had absolutely no control over a massive amount of money of my own.

I initiated complete withdrawals from the company. This is where things get a little squirrely and I am so glad I managed to get my funds out. My first account was returned just on the stated time of 20 days (yikes - yes 20 days to withdraw the entire capital and any profit earned during that time - also this is working days, just like the profit withdrawal).. The second you withdraw your capital, they then block access to the portal... This is another issue I had, as I wanted to ensure that I was correctly paid for any profit earned, but I could no longer gain access to the backend to view previous trades and results. So for 30 days I sat blindly waiting for capital and profit to be returned. Eventually it came with some profit. I have no idea whether this was correct or not as I couldn't check.

The second account closure took a great deal longer then the 20 days to be returned to me. I sent emails daily to ask where the money was, which I got either vague responses or no response at all. In the end after closer to 35 working days I declared I would have to engage the local authorities to investigate the non return of my capital. Within 5 minutes I had a response and the same day the capital was returned to me.

So eventually I managed to get my capital and a couple of months profit out.

Ok so is it a scam? Well you have to judge for yourself... I feel very fortunate to be out of it.. Too many inconsistencies, to little transparency and issues with payments and capital returns. I have spoken to people still in it and asked them are they not worried that its a scam. They have said they don't care - so long as the scam lasts for 11 months, they make their capital and anything else is pure profit. That in itself is a little disconcerting.

For me I wont say either way whether or not its a scam. Read through the reviews and see for yourself. Would I recommend the service to others? - no not given my experience. Maybe their administration and communication is poor, but for me I would rather have complete control over my money...

 

[Tutankhamun]

Pharaoh/Totalpips - interesting insights from you both, thanks for sharing.

What would be your view regarding the oversight by the financial regulators in the UAE?

Do you not think they would be all-over an investment scheme like this ?
I cannot imagine the UAE authorities being too tolerant about allowing such a scheme to carry on, especially if there are potentially a large number of their elite airline crew involved.

Totalpips - if I am understanding correctly, then I guess you actually made money out of your whole Exential experience ? By my calculations, around US$ 10,000 - is that correct ?

Tutankhamun

 

[totalpips]

Pharaoh/Totalpips - interesting insights from you both, thanks for sharing.

What would be your view regarding the oversight by the financial regulators in the UAE?

Do you not think they would be all-over an investment scheme like this ?
I cannot imagine the UAE authorities being too tolerant about allowing such a scheme to carry on, especially if there are potentially a large number of their elite airline crew involved.

Totalpips - if I am understanding correctly, then I guess you actually made money out of your whole Exential experience ? By my calculations, around US$ 10,000 - is that correct ?

Tutankhamun

I did make a little money out of it, certainly not 10K, but a little over my initial investment.... I was always dubious about them, but seeing as I had a number of colleagues having accounts I decided to push ahead (for a couple of months)... I have since spoken to my colleagues about Exential and both are still waiting on payouts for this month. A little over 1 week delayed. With all sorts of vague responses about bank delays, holidays blah blah blah. I have advised both of them to withdraw the money asap, given that this thread has absolutely taken off with mostly negative reports... does indeed seem like its all about to crash down around peoples collective ears.

The local authorities here are relaxed about most things. Nothing will be checked until a formal complaint is made and this in itself is not an easy process. I did say to them that I would go to the local authorities, which as mentioned saw the return email and the capital in my account within hours.. Its funny though as I was speaking to my colleagues they mentioned that since then Exential has sent a message to all clients saying that threats can see their account blocked and will not return the money any quicker (they mentioned that it is there contractual right - hiding behind a vague contract????) Not sure if this was a direct response by them on my actions but it seems like there could be more behind this i.e. they do not want to be investigated any any shape or form.... if they had nothing to hide, then a little investigation wouldn't upset them surely?

To top my comments off... I would have no faith or trust in this outfit, not just from my own experiences, but the current worry pervading the current account holders, it seems like everyone is trying to get out... I have told my colleagues to get out asap... as you don't want to be the last one holding the proverbial baby... Hey if its not a scam, then surely someone from Exential will front up and open the books so to speak and once that happens, business continues..

Good luck for those still in it, as I mentioned in my first post I am lucky and glad to be out... As for elite flight crew, well Emirates crew members are the same as any worker here - underpaid, under appreciated just a faceless number... sad but true. Ask those building the current glut of high rise towers in the midday sun...

 

[chicken.or.beef]

Tutankhamun,

There is no oversight by the financial regulators in the UAE as Exential is only registered as a ordinary business entity, not a financial entity.

The authorities cannot do anything, as they are unaware. Only an official complaint by an investor would both inform the authorities and open an investigation.

As exential have up to recently been paying out, no one has probably raised a complaint to date.

Notice how quickly Totalpips was able to recoup his money when he mentioned he will go to the authorities:

"The second account closure took a great deal longer then the 20 days to be returned to me. I sent emails daily to ask where the money was, which I got either vague responses or no response at all. In the end after closer to 35 working days I declared I would have to engage the local authorities to investigate the non return of my capital. Within 5 minutes I had a response and the same day the capital was returned to me."

If you are having trouble getting your money, this strategy might still work.

I am just curious about the current reason emailed to clients regarding delays in paying out money.

Why would a so called "regulated" and "audited" FX company in the UAE have to open and use a SME bank account in Australia of all places?

If you would like to share your experiences, there is a reporter currently looking into exential.

"Hey, I'm working on a story on potential ponzi schemes, is anyone who is concerned about this operation free to meet up to discuss this in person? Won't publish names. My email is nwebster@thenational.ae. Thanks Nick"

Well done Totalpips! - you are probably one of the last lucky ones.

 

[totalpips]

Tutankhamun,

There is no oversight by the financial regulators in the UAE as Exential is only registered as a ordinary business entity, not a financial entity.

The authorities cannot do anything, as they are unaware. Only an official complaint by an investor would both inform the authorities and open an investigation.

As exential have up to recently been paying out, no one has probably raised a complaint to date.

Notice how quickly Totalpips was able to recoup his money when he mentioned he will go to the authorities:

"The second account closure took a great deal longer then the 20 days to be returned to me. I sent emails daily to ask where the money was, which I got either vague responses or no response at all. In the end after closer to 35 working days I declared I would have to engage the local authorities to investigate the non return of my capital. Within 5 minutes I had a response and the same day the capital was returned to me."

If you are having trouble getting your money, this strategy might still work.

I am just curious about the current reason emailed to clients regarding delays in paying out money.

Why would a so called "regulated" and "audited" FX company in the UAE have to open and use a SME bank account in Australia of all places?

If you would like to share your experiences, there is a reporter currently looking into exential.

"Hey, I'm working on a story on potential ponzi schemes, is anyone who is concerned about this operation free to meet up to discuss this in person? Won't publish names. My email is nwebster@thenational.ae. Thanks Nick"

Well done Totalpips! - you are probably one of the last lucky ones.

Thanks C.o.B., yeah I feel very fortunate.. it has all the warning signs of being a scam, but yes greed and whispers in my ear, let me get into it... luckily sanity prevailed and I got out while I could... My colleagues have significant amounts invested with them and if this turns south, would absolutely ruin them... talking circa 5 accounts...

Thats a long time to recover... interesting that a reported is investigating.... perfect timing perhaps????

 

[totalpips]

Also, from my own dealings here previously I would only (and will do now) deal with Financial companies operating solely out of DIFC... Google it if you aren't sure about it, but it seems to be the only authority that is properly regulated (to global standards)... I am probably wrong, but that's my two cents...

 

[sweater]

Tutankhamun,

There is no oversight by the financial regulators in the UAE as Exential is only registered as a ordinary business entity, not a financial entity.

The authorities cannot do anything, as they are unaware. Only an official complaint by an investor would both inform the authorities and open an investigation.

As exential have up to recently been paying out, no one has probably raised a complaint to date.

Notice how quickly Totalpips was able to recoup his money when he mentioned he will go to the authorities:

"The second account closure took a great deal longer then the 20 days to be returned to me. I sent emails daily to ask where the money was, which I got either vague responses or no response at all. In the end after closer to 35 working days I declared I would have to engage the local authorities to investigate the non return of my capital. Within 5 minutes I had a response and the same day the capital was returned to me."

If you are having trouble getting your money, this strategy might still work.

I am just curious about the current reason emailed to clients regarding delays in paying out money.

Why would a so called "regulated" and "audited" FX company in the UAE have to open and use a SME bank account in Australia of all places?

If you would like to share your experiences, there is a reporter currently looking into exential.

"Hey, I'm working on a story on potential ponzi schemes, is anyone who is concerned about this operation free to meet up to discuss this in person? Won't publish names. My email is nwebster@thenational.ae. Thanks Nick"

Well done Totalpips! - you are probably one of the last lucky ones.

Yes..Australia...why? my take...they might have operation in Australia and probably money that will be used for payouts are coming from the new recruits in that place IF exential is really a ponzi.. But tell me..would there be still a time to get out at this moment and recover the capital? This might raised panic over the investor and pulling out of investment might pour to which exential cannot handle, again IF exential is ponzi..

To me, it is the best time to prove themselves otherwise to boost investor confidence or let the run to end the agony...

 

[SilentSpectator]

Yes..Australia...why? my take...they might have operation in Australia and probably money that will be used for payouts are coming from the new recruits in that place IF exential is really a ponzi.. But tell me..would there be still a time to get out at this moment and recover the capital? This might raised panic over the investor and pulling out of investment might pour to which exential cannot handle, again IF exential is ponzi..

To me, it is the best time to prove themselves otherwise to boost investor confidence or let the run to end the agony...

Lol, they could now be targetting the Qantas Crew. Remember that Emirates recently established partnership with Qantas. With 14 flights between the two countries daily, I wouldn't be surprised if this scheme managed to board unnoticed on an A380.

 

[Pharaoh]

Tutankhamun, I can't speak on behalf of the UAE regulators, but I have closely watched how US regulators deal with these things.

The CFTC doesn't have the manpower to go out and check on each and every company in existence. Even if a Ponzi is registered with them (most aren't), it's not hard to provide paperwork to keep the regulators at bay (Ask Madoff). The thing that can draw regulatory attention is complaints. The drawback is that few people who are getting paid regularly will want to risk the golden goose by asking for a regulatory opinion.

There was a fascinating piece on American Greed about a US Ponzi (Oxford Group - related to Universal Brokerage Fx) that was involved in the collapse of Crown Forex. The Ponzi's owners were spending money too wildly and were looking for more investors. They tried to hire a banker. The banked took one look and knew what it was. He took his concerns to the government, but the government needed evidence before being able to make a decisive move. A simple audit could make all the cash disappear. The banker went undercover and got the evidence. This is why a well run Ponzi in almost any country can survive for a very long time. As long as it looks good enough and there's more money flowing in than out, it can keep paying on time for years.

I had no idea about the banker, but had been following UBFX and Crown closely enough that I volunteered to write the Scam article for the FPA when the story broke:

https://www.forexpeacearmy.com/comm...ook-and-patrick-kiley-partners-in-crime.8136/

The UBFX/Crown/Oxford scam was so long ago that I forgot this excellent quote in reply to one of my posts by Marc Trimble, one of UBFX's associates:

First, it is extremely irresponsible to write about things of which you have no knowledge, especially on the internet. Comments like "I think it might be a scam" may fall under Federal Internet Harrassment laws when delivered in the context of a website that is meant to review services. I'd caution against expressing/intimating contempt before one investigates.

It's funny how that same guy was hip deep in the scam operation while making up Federal rules to try to silence any criticism.

Marc also backed up the completely fictitious "successful" trading by one of the guys who got a well-deserved prison sentence:

I have known Pat Kiley for 12+ years and am familiar with the UBXF trading methodology. I have visited their Headquarters; and being an old commodities trader, I can honestly say that I am impressed with their program and trading methods. There are no huge swings, draw-downs or any gut wrenching trading . Slow and steady wins the race. While their trading methodologies are not "sexy", they work year in and year out.

I wonder how Marc managed to avoid getting tossed in the slammer along with the rest of them. I'll risk another Federal Internet Harassment arrest and speculate that he probably broke down during his first interrogation and agreed to provide evidence in exchange for immunity.


Let me finish by quoting something very relevant I wrote in that article:

"An essential skill of a conman is to be able to deal with dissent. In this case, Marc Trimble's first reaction was to make a bogus legal threat. Many people will immediately go silent rather than risk facing something like “Federal Internet Harassment Laws”. There are no laws with that title, but it's designed to sound frightening. When a conman realizes that fear won't work, he tries insulting people who argue with him, telling them that anyone with half a brain will realize that the con is legit. A conman will do anything to silence or discredit any dissent. A conman also ignores inconvenient questions and then tells people “wait, it will all be ok” once things start to go wrong. Marc Trimble's words would suit any conman quite well."

Consider this when looking at some of the responses I've gotten in this thread and in other threads for "investments" which later turned out to be Ponzi's.