andreaspetrova
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Rizwan - You sound more like a competitor rather than a client, so we will ignore you. We need our money, not SL in jail.
Ponzi Scheme TadawulME / Exential Group:
- Thread starter samsam9000
- Start date
Guaranteed profits become guaranteed losses.
So you want him out so that he can trade again and give you your money back?
Question no. 1 - Do you really think he ran a legit forex trading company? If your answer is yes, end of discussion. Cant help you there buddy.
Additional questions: )
- Havent you seen your trading account statement? Did you see any legit transactions other than huge withdrawals? If you did see any trading transactions, does it matches your 7-11% monthly profit?
- Dont you think he had enough time to "make up for it", aka trade and give your money back? The delay in payment started in Sept 2015, and people waited and gave him enough chance. He was arrested only in Dec. 2016. You may argue that his office was closed by DED early 2016 but you dont need a physical office address to trade.
- When somebody borrowed money from you and they will not pay you back as per written contract, how are you going to force him/her to pay? Are you not going to get the aid of the authorities? And when you go to the authorities, aren't they going to advice you to get a lawyer?
Unfortunately, lawyers (especially in UAE) are expensive. and some are indeed taking advantage of this. But there's just no other way. Winning the court case and executing the order are two different activities. and while the first is already certain, the execution is the difficult (and almost impossible) part. Money is already out of the country, as expected, and its beyond the jurisdiction of UAE authorities. Im not a lawyer so i dont know how to proceed with this but logic alone will dictate that this is a complicated process. SL probably know this and maybe he doesnt really care if he rots in jail as long as his grandson's grandson are already rich. and they will refer to him as their great great grandpa who took them out of poverty. Disgusting.
And by the way, as early as September 2015 when the delay in payments started, we are already encouraging people to do the necessary actions and get the authorities involved because they clearly violated their contract. Before the delays, we were just informing everyone that EG ticks all the warning signs of a ponzi. But some guys, aka cheerleaders, says give EG some time bla bla bla as they are sure that EG is not a ponzi and its time to help EG. Based on the statements, huge withdrawals from the accounts happened in Jan-Feb 2016. So in other words, EG was actually able to siphon the money out because cheerleader says, "give them enough time".
andreaspetrova
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I understand you, very clearly. Wonder from where you have got this information, because here in Dubai neither the court nor the police have said nor say anything and as you and many rightly say, Lawyers have lied and cheated us. Lets leave it to the court to decide whether they are a ponzi or a scam. As of now nothing, they are still clean. Does it matter what we think, where the money is? where his wife is? where the trading money went? who has the money? What matters is what the court says and whatever came on newspapers are statements made by the same lawyers who have robbed so many friends of mine and i feel so sorry for them. If the money is out of the UAE, Me and friends thought about this, EG existed in Dubai for 6 long years and used banks to transfer profits, so the banks were aware. for almost 5 years EG has transferred profits, so we can even say, that the money is gone to clients accounts and not outside the UAE. Its rubbish that the money is outside the UAE, if it was, we are talking about the dubai courts, who are very efficient is finding such money.
Yes, when you have invested somewhere, specially forex, you must know the risk, involved. Unfortunately all were greedy and are suffering. Maybe we should have believed SL that he needs time to trade. Most of us are realizing it now. He still says it apparently, he cannot run away anywhere, until he pays us, not out of the country. so if he knows he can, why not give him that chance. What have we gained keeping him in jail for almost 8 months now. Nothing, just fake promises from lawyers and the police and court dont say anything. What if the court just says, he has stayed in for long and now he pays no one, imagine, what a state it would be.
Its been 8 months, nothing has happened, good nor bad. Maybe its a simple company problem, where the lawyers and these investigators, made it look like a fraud company, so that they can get as many clients as possible to con. And its evident today.
Its doesnt matter what we discuss or believe, we have no choice but go as per what the court says now. No one is helping us at the moment, even the lawyers are avoiding my friends calls and keeping their phones switched off. This situation is bad.
Cheerleaders aka frauds aka competitors aka lawyers aka clients aka SL, it doesnt matter who we all are now, we all have to wait and wait for how long we do not know. The truth is if SL gets sentenced no one sees their money ever, we have to move on, if SL gets released we have some hope left. This is the truth, face it!!!! If the money was somewhere so many lawyers and investigators and the police and the court and CID involved would find it, i guess 8 months are enough for a country like UAE, who solve murder cases in 24 hours.
I dont understand one thing, if SL does not care for his clients and has siphoned all the money outside the country and if his wife ran away with all the money, why is he not just giving up and says i dont have the money and he cannot pay and get the bloody sentence and stop wasting everyone's time. The case will rest in peace at least and we all will have our answers. He would just get a 3 years jail term maybe, like MMA forex, that guy said he has no money and got sentenced. If he had done that, he would have completed a year by now, For what is that man waiting. Very strange, i think for myself now, i do not think according to others.
I dont understand if SL rots in jail, how will he get grandsons and make them rich. Sorry, wanted to add some humor. is it possible? haha sorry. If Exential was a ponxi, why did banks, support them for so many years with the withdrawal transactions of millions of dirhams within the UAE? for years now, until the problem started> Think about it. Food for thought
andreaspetrova
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For your information, In 2016 when the Office was closed by DED, these same lawyers had mentioned on The express and National that the authorities have shut down their trading. And if the authorities in Dubai has shut down their trading, how could they trade? Common sense. I guess we got carried away with what these newspapers spoke, these editors should be questioned, if the news they published had or has been supported by any strong proofs or just written, if just written, trust me this is dubai, the editors are getting into deep deep deep trouble. Nick Webster and Mazhar Farooqui, both expats and could have sold themselves to these lawyers to make money. But the cop told me, they have got high orders to investigate now, and they will not tolerate dubai name getting spoilt. Hoping this mess ends. I am surprised that these two editors are the only ones who write articles. Everyone rushed to authorities without thinking too early, and thats why all are suffering. If you say that they have done the right choice, they have made the competitors happy and their lives more miserable.
How is it beyond the jurisdiction of the UAE authorities if the money is sent out, did SL not use the banks registered with central bank of UAE to transfer the money. Stop speaking things which dont make sense, i guess now we have become smarter and understand this game well. So even if i agree with u, they cant get the money, there are no assets in the UAE, his wife was not asked to come back. What is the solution, pay 30000 $ to lawyers for telling us that SL will remain in jail? Are you kidding me? conned, we have been conned, i have realized the only person who can help us is SL. take it or leave it. your lawyers can do nothing for you.
We clients must report all of this to the police, maybe its the lawyers who keeping SL inside as much as possible to charge their clients for each trip they make to the court and police station and giving stupid excuses now. Caught in their own lies looks like. Now its time to show us the money. Someone said the money was with relatives and friends now, next who, SL's grandparents?
Again, if you still dont believe that EG was a ponzi, i really cant help you there. Go back to all the pages and see all the debates that happened before. Cheerleaders main argument is that "EG is giving out money, and thats all that matters". Pure greed and disregard of logic.
The court will not formally say that "EG is a ponzi". It will not happen. But the fact that the court ordered SL to pay back (and he cant), DED closed their office, its already tantamount to saying that EG is not legit. Dont be too naive.
But I also agree with you. I dont understand why there's not definite judgement on SL (but then again, some people say that theres already a judgement done and SL is ordered to pay, or else face certain time in prison).. Maybe this is beyond us. Maybe there are big personalities involved. Or maybe its just to keep it silent because a multimillion dollar scam like this will hurt the image of this country. These are all just opinions.
Dont blame the banks as well. EG got a valid trade license (which by the way say that they are just brokers, and not main players in trading), a valid office location, and khalas, the bank will accept all their money. But maybe you have a point. Maybe the banks did have a role to play as they may became lenient with complying with KYC policies. This I am not sure. But pointing fingers at the bank is already moot.
In a ponzi, not all money will go to the fraudster. Of course, those who have joined in earlier have benefited to this scheme. I've heard about this scheme in 2009 and at that time, they even have posted in their website that its a guaranteed 7-11% MONTHLY profit on top of the guaranteed return of capital within 20 days from withdrawal. No legit forex company will do that. Forex has indeed significant risk. However, when you have companies who guarantees this (in writing), you eliminated the forex risk. it becomes a risk of people not honoring their contract, and the only way to enforce this is via court. (I think i've writtent this statement more than 10 times in this forum. Where have you been?
The victims are the ones who are at the bottom of the pyramid. Hence, in some countries, clawback procedures are employed in order to trace and recover the money that went to those who are on the top of the pyramid. However, I think clawback procedures are not enforced in this country.
If the money is in UAE, yes, authorities would be able to freeze everything and probably resolve this in less than a month. But the problem is the money is not here anymore. The statement that the authorities/investigators does not know where the money is may not be correct (i am not sure about this). They probably know where the money was transferred (I think it is in one of the companies in Australia or the islands owned by SL). However, this is beyond their jurisdiction. You cant just order the bank in Australia to give you the bank account records of their clients. In some countries, bank secrecy law can only be lifted in extreme cases. Unfortunately, ponzi scheme that happened in other countries is not one of them. So they are stuck.Get it? its not as simple as you think.
So yes, SL was able to siphon some of the remaining money outside UAE. And yes, his grandson's grandson are rich. For those who does not believe in karma, this is a logical (yet very bad) move to
Have you not heard of people getting a loan here in UAE, transferred the money out of UAE, and ran away to their home country? Its already difficult to go after them even if its just in GCC countries or countries where UAE have bilateral agreements.
There is really no concrete solution on how to get your money back. You have to understand that paying lawyers will help you clear things out and give justice to what happened. But they will not guarantee that you will get your money back. If lawyers promised you this, then yes, they are also fraudsters.
Good bye for now
I think our discussion is no longer helpful To be fair, he had enough time to disappear. He did say repayments would start Jan 2017. He was asking for more patience. Don't say he had plenty of time, we don't know that. He only had plenty of time to run away.
8 months is nothing. This will drag on for years.
I suggest, move on, forget about it. Lesson learnt and maybe one day you will hear some news. I suggest in future, only invest in something you understand. Don't follow other people into investments or to lawyers.
The authorities will probably give him a sentence to save their face. SL will do his time and not pay you back.
If he does start paying back then, I hope, people will be patient and give him a chance to clear his name. The guy from MMA is paying people back.
8 months is nothing. This will drag on for years.
I suggest, move on, forget about it. Lesson learnt and maybe one day you will hear some news. I suggest in future, only invest in something you understand. Don't follow other people into investments or to lawyers.
The authorities will probably give him a sentence to save their face. SL will do his time and not pay you back.
If he does start paying back then, I hope, people will be patient and give him a chance to clear his name. The guy from MMA is paying people back.
Pharaoh
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All Hail Bingo, bringer of defeatist wisdom! Follow his advice. Sit on your hands. Do nothing. Don't bother to share facts with the police and authorities. Don't file reports. Abandon all hope.
Of course, if you ran a Ponzi scheme and mistimed your disappearance (as many Ponzi schemers have done), following Bingo's advice is exactly what you would want victims to do. The less evidence submitted, the fewer complaints to the authorities, and less people getting stories to the press would make it easier for you to escape with more stolen money and would also likely result in a lighter sentence - both of which will only encourage you and others to victimize more people in the future.
Happily for the world, most people reading this aren't the criminal scum who create Ponzi schemes or their lackeys. Most of your are innocent victims who want to see justice served. The best way to do this is to bring every scrap of evidence to the police and the courts. Make certain that your name and details are counted before this goes to trial. When declaring sentence, judges do look at the amount of money and the number of victims. The more publicity you can focus on this issue, the more likely someone who knows more about where some of that money went is to come forward. Every little bit helps. Any person reading this may be the tipping point in whether Sydney gets out a year earlier or a year later. Every one of you publicly sharing your story may trigger a chain of events which could lead to more money being recovered. Every one of you who shares your story may be the one who warns some other innocent person not to fall for some future Ponzi scheme.
If you were victimized and chose to say and do nothing, that's the same thing as saying "Not only am I ok with being ripped off, but I want criminals to face the smallest penalty possible. I think it's ok if criminals like this do the exact same thing to my friends, my coworkers, and my family."
Of course, if you ran a Ponzi scheme and mistimed your disappearance (as many Ponzi schemers have done), following Bingo's advice is exactly what you would want victims to do. The less evidence submitted, the fewer complaints to the authorities, and less people getting stories to the press would make it easier for you to escape with more stolen money and would also likely result in a lighter sentence - both of which will only encourage you and others to victimize more people in the future.
Happily for the world, most people reading this aren't the criminal scum who create Ponzi schemes or their lackeys. Most of your are innocent victims who want to see justice served. The best way to do this is to bring every scrap of evidence to the police and the courts. Make certain that your name and details are counted before this goes to trial. When declaring sentence, judges do look at the amount of money and the number of victims. The more publicity you can focus on this issue, the more likely someone who knows more about where some of that money went is to come forward. Every little bit helps. Any person reading this may be the tipping point in whether Sydney gets out a year earlier or a year later. Every one of you publicly sharing your story may trigger a chain of events which could lead to more money being recovered. Every one of you who shares your story may be the one who warns some other innocent person not to fall for some future Ponzi scheme.
If you were victimized and chose to say and do nothing, that's the same thing as saying "Not only am I ok with being ripped off, but I want criminals to face the smallest penalty possible. I think it's ok if criminals like this do the exact same thing to my friends, my coworkers, and my family."
Pharaoh
Brigadier General
- Messages
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But he's not tried and sentenced yet. All the money has not yet been accounted for. Until then, any efforts to discourage people from providing every scrap of evidence to the police and prosecutors only help him to escape some or all of the penalty he deserves.
The same reason I cared in many other threads about Ponzi schemes. Again and again, I get told that since I haven't invested, I can't possibly know anything about whether or not a company is a Ponzi. The simple fact is that Ponzis are very easy to spot, once you know what you are looking for. Spotting them isn't magic. Anyone who cares to read can learn how to do it here:
Ponzi Schemes and HYIPS - Free Money Traps
And the reason I'm so aggressive going after Ponzi schemes and other scams is simple. It doesn't matter how many times I or anyone else says "Don't invest money you can't afford to lose", once promises of high returns come in, people make bad decisions. I don't even want to know what percent of people invested in Exential lost most or all of their life savings. If that number is 1, that's 1 too many. Add in that some people likely took out loans, referred relatives who invested heavily, etc., and the financial devastation this sort of scam can and does cause for individuals and families is huge.
While a scam is running I put up with the insults and attacks because I know there are at least a few potential investors who will understand what I'm saying. If I can convince one person to not jump in or even convince someone to limit the size of their "investment" in an obvious scam, I've done a good thing.
Once the scam unravels, I do everything I can to point people towards reporting all the information to the authorities. The more info the police and prosecutors have, the greater the odds of a longer sentence and the better the chances of money and knowing collaborators will be found. The more guilty people charged and convicted combined with enough evidence to support longer sentences, the fewer such scams will be created.
I want the world to be safer for investors. I consider exposing scams and helping people report scams to be a public service.
