a rising scam broker

[goldenwings]

hi all, i have this experience, last week on friday i decided to close my mt4 just one-two hours before new york closing time. then i woke up next day with my stop out happened. the broker said that it was because of widen spread, and they sent me the tick log of their own version. the reality of my charts shows different thing, the highest price for eu on closing bar was at 1.11610, meanwhile the broker said that based on their tick log the price of ask went to 1.11790.
in this case, where can we seek more proof as we can not have our own tick logs.
do you people think this is the sign of the scam ?
many thanks

 

[Pharaoh]

Spreads can widen around market open and close. Also, gaps often happen over the weekend.

On your broker and a competing broker, check the 1 minute charts for any signs of price spikes for the last 2 hours and first 2 hours of trading.

 

[goldenwings]

Spreads can widen around market open and close. Also, gaps often happen over the weekend.

On your broker and a competing broker, check the 1 minute charts for any signs of price spikes for the last 2 hours and first 2 hours of trading.

hi Friend, thanks for the info.

i have checked as you told, i found no spike / widen spread of EU to 1.11790 on friday one hour before closing time.
it showed the highest was at 1.11610 on that broker.
so, can i judge that the broker had committed to scam ??

i think this is very sensitive issue for us as the traders, i wonder why only you gave the comment. is it because i gave wrong judgment or, people do not know and understand about this problem ??? or people have known this matter, but can not do anything ??
i mean, with this over slippage but we do not the proof of that over slippage, then brokers can cheat us, and anytime we have position especially when we close our mt4, they can easily say to us that it is because of slippage, and they give us an excuse of market volatility.

i hope people will give more comments, whether to say i am wrong, or the broker, or just give comments that they also just know about this kind of manipulation, so i can know that many people actually do not know about this matter.
we have weakness position to fight with brokers, because they can always give an excuse of slippage.

thanks

 

[RahmanSL]

My ex-broker ICMarkets a.k.a I-See-Bucketshop gave me the following reply to my query which is similar to yours:

Since these were sell/short orders - the trades were triggered by the "ask" price at the time. The historic "ask" price is not visible on the MT4 chart because MT4 charts are based on the Bid price.
Please also note that the USDRUB currency pair is an exotic currency pair and hence the spread will tend to be widen significantly during the hours for which it is not actively traded. Moreover these events had occurred at the beginning of the trading week i.e. when there are lower number of banks/liquidity providers providing prices. The illiquid and wide spread conditions can also be deciphered via the price data for the period on the 1 minute chart i.e. it was intermittent and patchy in nature.
*the bloomberg charts are also that of the Bid price, most charts by default show the bid price. Price will also differ for various execution venues as different liquidity providers/banks are involved in various venues

BID and ASK Prices and cTrader/MT4 charts -

· cTrader/MT4 Charts only show the Bid Price

· Correspondingly, Sell Stops/limits and Sell orders are executed at the Bid Price.

· Whereas, Buy Stops/limits and Buy orders are executed at the Ask (or Offer) Price. The Ask price is not visible on the ctrader/MT4 candle chart historically.

. The difference between the Bid and the Ask is the Spread

So if you enter a ‘buy’ order

It is opened at the Ask price and

Closed at the Bid price


If you enter a ‘sell’ order

It is opened at the Bid price and

Closed at the Ask Price........................

........and they attached a whole bunch of charts to "explain" my query which was simply "Why were the pending orders (pre-set at approx levels), on another trading account with them, not triggered IF the price did went up to the levels they "claimed" which caused stop-out to the other trading account?"

Is your broker ICMarkets a.k.a I-See-Bucketshop by any chance??

 

[goldenwings]

My ex-broker ICMarkets a.k.a I-See-Bucketshop gave me the following reply to my query which is similar to yours:

Since these were sell/short orders - the trades were triggered by the "ask" price at the time. The historic "ask" price is not visible on the MT4 chart because MT4 charts are based on the Bid price.
Please also note that the USDRUB currency pair is an exotic currency pair and hence the spread will tend to be widen significantly during the hours for which it is not actively traded. Moreover these events had occurred at the beginning of the trading week i.e. when there are lower number of banks/liquidity providers providing prices. The illiquid and wide spread conditions can also be deciphered via the price data for the period on the 1 minute chart i.e. it was intermittent and patchy in nature.
*the bloomberg charts are also that of the Bid price, most charts by default show the bid price. Price will also differ for various execution venues as different liquidity providers/banks are involved in various venues

BID and ASK Prices and cTrader/MT4 charts -

· cTrader/MT4 Charts only show the Bid Price

· Correspondingly, Sell Stops/limits and Sell orders are executed at the Bid Price.

· Whereas, Buy Stops/limits and Buy orders are executed at the Ask (or Offer) Price. The Ask price is not visible on the ctrader/MT4 candle chart historically.

. The difference between the Bid and the Ask is the Spread

So if you enter a ‘buy’ order

It is opened at the Ask price and

Closed at the Bid price


If you enter a ‘sell’ order

It is opened at the Bid price and

Closed at the Ask Price........................

........and they attached a whole bunch of charts to "explain" my query which was simply "Why were the pending orders (pre-set at approx levels), on another trading account with them, not triggered IF the price did went up to the levels they "claimed" which caused stop-out to the other trading account?"

Is your broker ICMarkets a.k.a I-See-Bucketshop by any chance??

hi Rahman, do you think your previous broker had cheated you ?
my position was stopped out and the broker gave me the screen shot of their own tick logs which we can not have that proof.
this is my first experience with this kind of self claimed broker of slippage, can we just keep quite and be so generous to brokers ? do other traders understand this kind of situation or not actually ?
is there a solution for this unfair practice towards traders ?
thanks

 

[RahmanSL]

This type of cheating/fraud is very difficult to prove because on MT4 trading platform, brokers can use the built-in Virtual Dealer Plugin to manipulate their client's trades as they wish.

There is an article on the types of rouge brokers at Mt4 Virtual Dealer Plug-In: The Perfect Forex Scam? - AuthenticFX which posted:

"One of the major questions for your forex broker - if they use Metatrader, and most do - may be whether they have installed the Metaquotes virtual dealer plug-in.

This powerful piece of forex broker manipulation software allows them to do virtually anything to your trades before, during and after they have been set in motion.

Some of the nasty things this plug-in is capable of doing are:

1) Widening spreads in order to trigger stops
2) Ignoring, modifying or deleting outstanding (pending) orders
3) Configuration for the automated widening of spreads, limits and stock levels prior to news announcements
4) On-the-fly reduction of leverage to force liquidation of large positions the broker's customer may have open

.......for more info, read their article.

Yes, I am very sure I-See-Bucketshop a.k.a ICMarkets used the Virtual Dealer plugin to manipulate my trading accounts with them, but like I have mentioned, that type of unethical actions are very difficult to prove.

As to whether your broker manipulated your trading account or not, I really don't know because (unlike my case) you do not have another trading account with the same broker, and with same or approx pending orders preset at approx level to compare whether the price did went to the levels they claimed which is not shown & recorded on MT4 trading platform time frames.

 

[goldenwings]

This type of cheating/fraud is very difficult to prove because on MT4 trading platform, brokers can use the built-in Virtual Dealer Plugin to manipulate their client's trades as they wish.

There is an article on the types of rouge brokers at Mt4 Virtual Dealer Plug-In: The Perfect Forex Scam? - AuthenticFX which posted:

"One of the major questions for your forex broker - if they use Metatrader, and most do - may be whether they have installed the Metaquotes virtual dealer plug-in.

This powerful piece of forex broker manipulation software allows them to do virtually anything to your trades before, during and after they have been set in motion.

Some of the nasty things this plug-in is capable of doing are:

1) Widening spreads in order to trigger stops
2) Ignoring, modifying or deleting outstanding (pending) orders
3) Configuration for the automated widening of spreads, limits and stock levels prior to news announcements
4) On-the-fly reduction of leverage to force liquidation of large positions the broker's customer may have open

.......for more info, read their article.

Yes, I am very sure I-See-Bucketshop a.k.a ICMarkets used the Virtual Dealer plugin to manipulate my trading accounts with them, but like I have mentioned, that type of unethical actions are very difficult to prove.

As to whether your broker manipulated your trading account or not, I really don't know because (unlike my case) you do not have another trading account with the same broker, and with same or approx pending orders preset at approx level to compare whether the price did went to the levels they claimed which is not shown & recorded on MT4 trading platform time frames.

hi Rahman, yes i remember about that article.
well before i read your issue with icmarkets, i thought that the majority of scam brokers are those from russia and ukraine, but icmarkets is from australia, so my assumption was wrong.
i really wonder do other traders acknowledge the over slippage or not ? or for so long, traders just do not recognize this issue and think that it was their mismanagement, miscalculation.
is there really a true ecn broker ?

 

[RahmanSL]

For me, especially since my issue with I-See-Bucketshop, ALL brokers who offer MT4 trading platform to their clients are suspect and we, as Traders, have to be well aware of their ability to misuse the Mt4 Virtual Dealer Plug-In.

So, in essence, whether they are regulated by some well know Regulator(s) or not does not prevent them from using the Mt4 Virtual Dealer Plug-In against their clients as aptly demonstrated by ASIC regulated I-See-Bucketshop with my trading accounts.

Funny you mentioned "Russian brokers" because I too share similar sentiments about them BUT yet I am still with a Russian regulated broker (EXNE..) for over 4 years now.
Yes it's true that they are market makers and they openly admitted to that fact..... BUT the broker has NEVER EVER manipulated any of my multiple LIVE trading accounts the way that ASIC regulated broker I-See-Bucketshop did to my trading accounts. I think that Russian broker is in the business for the long haul as their Support/Representative adequately, and without fear, address all issues that their clients have post in open forums. In contrast, I-See-Bucketshop hides behind ASIC to take pop-shots at their clients' issues.

As for true ECN brokers, I really don't know who they are as ALL claimed to be "true ECN" and we know what that means....just claims and nothing more!

=========================

I forgot to add that withdrawal request with that Russian broker takes (depending on the numbers of deposit transactions) anywhere from a few minutes to under an hour to show up in my SKRILL account....and from my SKRILL account, money shows up in my bank account (international wire transfer) under 48 hours. So, all in all, not bad at all for a none ASIC regulated broker

 

[Gladiator76]

Yes, spreads increase a lot around market closing and opening. Now, if you placed a buy order, then this should not affect you since you already payed for the spread when you placed your order. But, if you placed a sell order, then it is possible that your stop loss got hit because of the increased spreads.

 

[goldenwings]

For me, especially since my issue with I-See-Bucketshop, ALL brokers who offer MT4 trading platform to their clients are suspect and we, as Traders, have to be well aware of their ability to misuse the Mt4 Virtual Dealer Plug-In.

So, in essence, whether they are regulated by some well know Regulator(s) or not does not prevent them from using the Mt4 Virtual Dealer Plug-In against their clients as aptly demonstrated by ASIC regulated I-See-Bucketshop with my trading accounts.

Funny you mentioned "Russian brokers" because I too share similar sentiments about them BUT yet I am still with a Russian regulated broker (EXNE..) for over 4 years now.
Yes it's true that they are market makers and they openly admitted to that fact..... BUT the broker has NEVER EVER manipulated any of my multiple LIVE trading accounts the way that ASIC regulated broker I-See-Bucketshop did to my trading accounts. I think that Russian broker is in the business for the long haul as their Support/Representative adequately, and without fear, address all issues that their clients have post in open forums. In contrast, I-See-Bucketshop hides behind ASIC to take pop-shots at their clients' issues.

As for true ECN brokers, I really don't know who they are as ALL claimed to be "true ECN" and we know what that means....just claims and nothing more!

=========================

I forgot to add that withdrawal request with that Russian broker takes (depending on the numbers of deposit transactions) anywhere from a few minutes to under an hour to show up in my SKRILL account....and from my SKRILL account, money shows up in my bank account (international wire transfer) under 48 hours. So, all in all, not bad at all for a none ASIC regulated broker

the problem is we all to busy to study the market, maybe we use most of our time to analyze market, and we are too tired to learn about broker tricks to cheat traders. and we are too sleepy to recognize that when we close our mt4, that's when the brokers start to steal.

yeah, today i also start to use exne,, my friend said that it is the best choice amongst bad options.
well, you know all brokers would provide same chart, but the stealing chance is when they have this excuse of slippage, especially when we close our mt4, they know when we do it.

forex peace army is really our home to declare war against those scammers, they are not even worthy to be called as broker, they are stealer.
now, we the people must stand together and demand for our rights, for fair practice, we are outnumber those brokers. let's imagine, we can be united, and declare to stop trading until mt4 and brokers can provide tick logs for traders.
can it be achieved or is it just crazy dream ??