GUILTY Case# 2015-062 | naveen1020 vs bancdebinary.com

[naveen1020]

Intention or not, your trading style is far away from profitable. You didn't mention whether there were credited bonuses to your account by the time your balance had reached $100,000. If there were such bonuses, this explains why you had kept opening options. If you were trading with your balance only, then it is a must to request a withdrawal that consist of your initial deposit + % of your current profit. The rest you leave for trading. This is to secure your investment. Any expectations for substantial profits are not serious if you don't know how to manage your risk and save your investment.

Ok..Its pointless discussing. Again you bring in different topic. Also, it is so clearly mentioned (both in my posts and skype conversation) that the balance includes bonus. So you didn't read the case at all.

LOL They even had told you the truth. Yes, profitable traders could withdraw no more than 20% from the total deposits, th rest 80% are for the company. The more options you open, the higher is the chance to lose. Everything is "chance". One will make profit, another 20 will lose.

hmm.. % of payout in the sense, every option will have return payout %. eg: 81%, 79% etc,. So if we won we get 81% of investment and rest 19% will go to broker as part of commission. What is your above statement.. logic less...

This is what you should ask SpotOption. They will just laugh and won't answer your emails. This is just like asking a casino operator whether they really make profit from clients' deposits and losses. Don't you see that SpotOption even offer a slot machine for casinos, based on their binary options software? How you see a casino operator, buying and selling financial instruments?! And what is more, do casino operators have the proper license to buy and sell such instruments.
Binary options industry is a simple game of predictions, a very lucrative industry, I must say. With initial investment of $50,000 you can open your own BO brokerage. This is the minimum investment of Tradologic, a competitor of SpotOption. How I know this? I visit special trade fairs where both SpotOption and Tradologic have their stands.

Spot option offers a slot machine that is financial one. With analysis (technical and external indicators), experts can make out where it will move (ofcourse with probability)... this is not a roulette, where you can't make out anything.

ok..pointless discussion again and again on same thing. Come with web proof on your statement that Ideal good BO's are like casino's and placing a trade in BO is equivalent to playing roulette. Else, let's leave it. BO's earn money on commissions but few BO's are so greedy that they want to earn more, so simply take our money. Also, this is off topic.

Continue with your own logics.

 

[ruseneca]

Ok..Its pointless discussing. Again you bring in different topic. Also, it is so clearly mentioned (both in my posts and skype conversation) that the balance includes bonus.

From what you've uploaded here, it is a complete mesh. We cannot understand whether you have received a bonus and if yes, for which of your deposits. Now, since we know that your balance had a bonus and it was impossible to withdraw, everything is clear. You are just a bonus hunter and you rely on someone to help you wager that bonus in a week. It is impossible unless you or the person with the signals do not risk. The situation becames win or lose which is pure gambling. At least, for me, it is.

hmm.. % of payout in the sense, every option will have return payout %. eg: 81%, 79% etc,. So if we won we get 81% of investment and rest 19% will go to broker as part of commission.

Techically, Naveen, it is possible that the company with which you had lost some many funds reduces its risks by opening real market orders but this should be put in their license. But there's no such thing as "we pay 81% to clients and the rest 19% remain for the company", as noone pays 100% for an option. There's no binary options market which makes binary options companies to face greater risks. As a result, the "pressured shark" gets angry. If you can't swim with sharks, it is better to stay away from them. Instead, you are knocking on their door.

Spot option offers a slot machine that is financial one. With analysis (technical and external indicators), experts can make out where it will move (ofcourse with probability)... this is not a roulette, where you can't make out anything.

Financial platforms are quite different from what SpotOption offers. Since we are here to talk about your case with Banc de Binary, let's stick to it. With your loss of more than $77,000, you could have set a binary options company up and manage it as per your requirements.

ok..pointless discussion again and again on same thing. Come with web proof on your statement that Ideal good BO's are like casino's and placing a trade in BO is equivalent to playing roulette. Else, let's leave it. BO's earn money on commissions but few BO's are so greedy that they want to earn more, so simply take our money. Also, this is off topic.

Continue with your own logics.

Trading with binary options, Naveen, is how you manage your risk. If you don't care for the risk, you are gambling on the markets. If you don't have any information, you are gambling on the markets. If you lose one or two times and continue to make deposits and you keep loosing, it is pure gambling.
It doesn't matter whether you are trading with Forex broker, bank or binary options company.
I completely understand your will to win but your chances would be higher if you have entered a real casino with $77,000 on hand, instead of betting on someone to "trade for you" or guide you. There are so many ways to convert that gambling to a simple trading with binary options ( just like me ), but you preferred to gamble on markets and do whatever others say.

My final words for this case...

You have made so many mistakes that broker's only chance is to benefit from your mistakes. There's no actual cheating or scamming. It was your idea or to invest in markets and instead of real trading, your choice was to gamble the funds by requesting additional bonuses on top of your deposits, thus reducing the chance for profit withdrawal. Instead of staying away from markets after your first loss, you had continued to make deposits with the same "broker", expecting a full recovery for a week ( something impossible ) and once again applied for a bonus instead of trading with your deposit, realize some minor profit and request a withdrawal.
For me, the company has nothing to do with that case since they just acted as they always act with a client with intention to make a deposit.

There's nothing more I could say regarding this case.

 

[naveen1020]

From what you've uploaded here, it is a complete mesh. We cannot understand whether you have received a bonus and if yes, for which of your deposits. Now, since we know that your balance had a bonus and it was impossible to withdraw, everything is clear. You are just a bonus hunter and you rely on someone to help you wager that bonus in a week. It is impossible unless you or the person with the signals do not risk. The situation becames win or lose which is pure gambling. At least, for me, it is.

.

I will leave it here as its divergent ideas.

Techically, Naveen, it is possible that the company with which you had lost some many funds reduces its risks by opening real market orders but this should be put in their license. But there's no such thing as "we pay 81% to clients and the rest 19% remain for the company", as noone pays 100% for an option. There's no binary options market which makes binary options companies to face greater risks. As a result, the "pressured shark" gets angry. If you can't swim with sharks, it is better to stay away from them. Instead, you are knocking on their door.

.

Have you ever opened a trade with binary option. There is a % payout for every option.

Ok.. I won't discuss further on your baseless points, as you just repeat same old things and never answered any of my questions (since you don't have proof to back up your arguments, as I did).

It's they who promised all ... profits, bonus, recovery, VIP access etc,...

let's leave it here.

 

[ruseneca]

I will leave it here as its divergent ideas.

In fact, these are two similar ideas. It depends how you act and whether you transform gambling to trading.

Have you ever opened a trade with binary option. There is a % payout for every option.

Are you kidding? I know what binary options are. Last year, I also had a problem with a BO company who scammed me and several people. I was just too profitable. My case here.

It doesn't matter what is the percent of profit that BO platforms pay to you. Casinos pay you 2 x your bet in case you win on a roulette. This is 100% profit for you. If BO platform pay 79%-81%, it doesn't mean that the rest % remains for them just because they do not make profit from your option and casinos do not make profit from your bet but from losing your money with them. The only way they can make a profit is being a real market participant. Then, if you buy a call option ( expecting that the price will go up ), they will sell. Thus, if you lose, they will win double. Now, do you remeber what I wrote above - 95% losing traders and only 5% profitable. Therefore, it won't be a problem when someone wins because losses are more than wins.
There's no problem at all if traders trade with a market maker or a bank. If you are a successful, your balance will grow disregarding of the broker. That's why it is senseless to argue that your broker is guilty for something when broker didn't open your positions, you did. Wether alone or with the help of someone, it doesn't matter. By buying an option, you expect something or you simply bet and wait for the final result, just like you bet with a bookmaker.

It's they who promised all ... profits, bonus, recovery, VIP access etc,...

Everyone will make promises but at the end of the day, by investing, you are the man in charge who is responsible for caiptal's grow. If you are a good investor, you will make a fortune. If not, you will lose.
You had received anything you need to make a good profit and you just gambled your chance. You could have managed the capital properly and with discipline and patience, you could have succeeded. Instead, your choice was to make a profit for week and that is with a bonus on your account.
Well, do not expect to make millions from $77,000 just within a single week! These are my final words...

 

[naveen1020]

In fact, these are two similar ideas. It depends how you act and whether you transform gambling to trading.

These two are much different. For you its gambling and for me its investment. As said, experts can analyse the trends unlike roulette (you talk with proof).

Are you kidding? I know what binary options are. Last year, I also had a problem with a BO company who scammed me and several people. I was just too profitable. My case here.

It doesn't matter what is the percent of profit that BO platforms pay to you. Casinos pay you 2 x your bet in case you win on a roulette. This is 100% profit for you. If BO platform pay 79%-81%, it doesn't mean that the rest % remains for them just because they do not make profit from your option and casinos do not make profit from your bet but from losing your money with them. The only way they can make a profit is being a real market participant. Then, if you buy a call option ( expecting that the price will go up ), they will sell. Thus, if you lose, they will win double. Now, do you remeber what I wrote above - 95% losing traders and only 5% profitable. Therefore, it won't be a problem when someone wins because losses are more than wins.
There's no problem at all if traders trade with a market maker or a bank. If you are a successful, your balance will grow disregarding of the broker. That's why it is senseless to argue that your broker is guilty for something when broker didn't open your positions, you did. Wether alone or with the help of someone, it doesn't matter. By buying an option, you expect something or you simply bet and wait for the final result, just like you bet with a bookmaker.

If all the traders win, still a good BO can survive but not a casino. (you talk with proof, as I sent below the proof of where good BO's make money on commissions). Else leave it.

How do Binary Option Brokers Make Money? | Best Binary Broker
The main source of income for brokers is obviously through commission on the trades. Investors are generally recommended on investments and trading strategies by the brokers who want to have a good amount of commission for the firm.

This matters more.. "Wether alone or with the help of someone, it doesn't matter." Its they who promised they will guide, else I wouldn't have opened any account.

This is exactly as shared by Truthseeker30
https://youtu.be/sxRStrx8xtc

But these brokers, where our trades/money is not lost with market but goes directly to their pockets are scam brokers.

Everyone will make promises but at the end of the day, by investing, you are the man in charge who is responsible for caiptal's grow. If you are a good investor, you will make a fortune. If not, you will lose.
You had received anything you need to make a good profit and you just gambled your chance. You could have managed the capital properly and with discipline and patience, you could have succeeded. Instead, your choice was to make a profit for week and that is with a bonus on your account.
Well, do not expect to make millions from $77,000 just within a single week! These are my final words...

You are repeating again and again same old story. Here I purely followed his advise and don't ever say, you gambled... you gambled etc... This is the default tone, I hear from brokers to cover their mistakes. He said, he can recover in a wk for VIP accounts.

===============
As per this simple analogy.
This firm offered with all sorts of stories and ask to enter a road. After enter, they will rob and kill us. As per you its my mistake to enter that road.

I know, its my mistake to trust them and enter that road. But here I am highlighting my experience and would like to warn everyone not to enter that road and if possible to regulators to close that road as they rob.
================

I know, again you will repeat the same.

 

[Pharaoh]

Ruseneca, I suggest you download the evidence files and read the text of the chats. A broker pushing a client to lie to a credit card company to get the limit increased so more money can be deposited alone is horribly unethical. Read the full text of those chats.

You can't expect every person out there to be able to trade and to know that broker advice in a case like this usually equates to fiscal suicide. Con men make money by gaining the confidence of their investors. It's only later that the investor learns how much of what he's been told is a lie.

Should the investor have been more wary? Of course! But that doesn't absolve the person manipulating the money from the investor and leading him into losing it all.

 

[ruseneca]

If all the traders win, still a good BO can survive but not a casino. (you talk with proof, as I sent below the proof of where good BO's make money on commissions). Else leave it.

These are 2 links:here and here. It's worth reading, go through the whole website and make sure you won't do the same mistake by processing deposits to BO brokers, forex brokers, any kind of investment firms, HYIPs, LYIPs etc...You are not a man who really understands how the markets go. Someone wins, someone lose. If everyone wins, it is not a market!
In order to invest, you must have some information and from your case, we see that you just put your money on the black when your "broker" put theirs in the red. The final result - red ( for your credit cards, of course ).

This is exactly as shared by Truthseeker30
https://youtu.be/sxRStrx8xtc
But these brokers, where our trades/money is not lost with market but goes directly to their pockets are scam brokers.

What you just said was that almost 98% of brokers are scamming people. Brokers really rely on a mixture between a "market maker" and "ECN/STP" technologies. The mixture is simple, you want to trade low amounts, then you can trade. They just send an average order to the liquidity provider, thus hedging their financial risks and decrease financial exposures.Higher orders they just route to a liquidity provider. Anyway, your case is whether smone has really tried to scam or cheat you, it's not how the brokers operate...

You are repeating again and again same old story. Here I purely followed his advise and don't ever say, you gambled... you gambled etc... This is the default tone, I hear from brokers to cover their mistakes. He said, he can recover in a wk for VIP accounts.

Man, this is a selling person. He can tell you that you will win a billion US dollars in a single week because he is the expert. And you should not trust such people because they try to sell their service to you. If they don't sell it, they simply reduce their monthly paychecks! They don't care whether you will win or you will lose.

Ruseneca, I suggest you download the evidence files and read the text of the chats. A broker pushing a client to lie to a credit card company to get the limit increased so more money can be deposited alone is horribly unethical.

I did read them, @Pharaoh, and what shocked me most was not that a broker pushes a client to do something but the fact that the client himself lied the bank several times and asked for a check of limits on his/her credit cards by allowing someone on Skype to try to process a $10,000 transacion. It's the most naive thing I have ever read in a criminal case ever!

You can't expect every person out there to be able to trade and to know that broker advice in a case like this usually equates to fiscal suicide. Con men make money by gaining the confidence of their investors. It's only later that the investor learns how much of what he's been told is a lie.

But what I see here is a person who begs for having another bonus without making a deposit. The broker himself tries to explain several times that it is impossible to add a bonus unless trader makes a new deposit. It is ridiculous to think that you might recover, even for 3 months, unless you are ready to risk it all. At the moment that someone starts to earn and send a profitable signals, the trader decides to trade alone by gambling on markets which is a good reason for the broker to exclude him/her from a so-called CEO group. ( Perhaps these are the billionares who lost their money with the company ).

Should the investor have been more wary? Of course! But that doesn't absolve the person manipulating the money from the investor and leading him into losing it all.

Both signal providers had had both profitable and losing options which is the reality. Noone could ever have 100% profitable orders or 100% losing ones. It is simple! You either learn how to lose or you just leave the markets. Brokers are not ( and cannot be ) responsible for our loss. We take our decisions, we open our orders, we analyze the market. If they offer some additional services, it must be again our deicision whether to follow their analyzes or signals.

 

[naveen1020]

this is a selling person. He can tell you that you will win a billion US dollars in a single week because he is the expert. And you should not trust such people because they try to sell their service to you. If they don't sell it, they simply reduce their monthly paychecks! They don't care whether you will win or you will lose

This itself is a scam and I am surprised there are people like you, who support. It is like, there are brokers, who kill us and you support, their duty is to kill us and you shouldn't go. Here I am highlighting that such brokers shouldn't exist, who tell stories.

1. Your linke How do binary options brokers make money? | BinaryOptions.net, clearly mentioned what I described, that BO's make money mainly on commissions.

But what I see here is a person who begs for having another bonus without making a deposit. The broker himself tries to explain several times that it is impossible to add a bonus unless trader makes a new deposit. It is ridiculous to think that you might recover, even for 3 months, unless you are ready to risk it all. At the moment that someone starts to earn and send a profitable signals, the trader decides to trade alone by gambling on markets which is a good reason for the broker to exclude him/her from a so-called CEO group2.

Initially they begged to deposit and later I did to add bonus for what I deposited. Don't comment without reading the case properly. I asked for bonus for what I deposited and what they promised. This is clearly mentioned in my first post as well.

Excluded me from CEO group, since he again asked me to deposit another 10k, which I didn't. I already mentioned this in one of my above post and you again repeat the same old things, as you don't have any valid points. Also, what is CEO group and non CEO group. This is just gimmicks.


Attached is the option for your reference.
"Investment advice (e.g unsuitable advice)" and "Quality or lack of information provided to the client " are considered to be scam.

 

[ruseneca]

This itself is a scam and I am surprised there are people like you, who support. It is like, there are brokers, who kill us and you support, their duty is to kill us and you shouldn't go.
1. Your linke How do binary options brokers make money? | BinaryOptions.net, clearly mentioned what I described, that BO's make money mainly on commissions.

Naveen, neither of FPA members do support such people and their cold calls and I am not an exception. Since you agreed on making several deposits just because of a bonus which you thought that it could recover your account, it might not be a problem for you to receive such calls. It doesn't seem to me that you really have a problem with that. It's the opposite, you are calling the company with questions whether you can receive bonuses to recover your losses and allow them to even try to process a transaction from your credit cards. What if they succeed because your bank has decided to lift the limits?!

The links that I sent do not actually state what you are writing. Did you check them up?! It is stated that most BO brokers rely on probabilities rather than cheating clients or opening opposite real market orders because they increase their risks by doing that! Read between the lines...
Here's another link from Forbes. It is an article where it is perfectly stated how do binary options operate and why this business is so lucrative.
If you successfully manage your risk:reward ratio and collect as much information as possible, if you are carefull in what you're doing and you are patient, there's no doubt you can gain profit. This is the way to turn gambling into trading. If you just rely on someone else and let him/her telling you what to do, you just gamble and here's your biggest mistake. Unlike casinos, where you just rely on probabilities and chances, in the binary options trading you could successfully manage your risks which you have't done. That's why me and the "broker" ( from the chat history ) call this gambling and not investing. You have just acted like playing in a casino.
By "investing" more than $70,000, you should have been more prepared and instead of expecting some profit, you should have expected that you can lose these $70,000 because statistically, the chance to lose them is much more higher than the chance to win a several percents above your total sum of deposits.
I hope that you understand why I take this case seriously. The percent of traders who think that they can gain profits from financial markets ( disregarding of their form ) is much more than these, who think they can lose their savings. The total difference: 95% of traders lose ( these who think they can gain profit ) and only 5% of traders win because they invest wisely and with cautious because in the very next moment, they can be at the zero point.

Initially they begged to deposit and later I did to add bonus for what I deposited. Don't comment without reading the case properly. I asked for bonus for what I deposited and what they promised. This is clearly mentioned in my first post as well.

Excluded me from CEO group, since he again asked me to deposit another 10k, which I didn't. I already mentioned this in one of my above post and you again repeat the same old things, as you don't have any valid points. Also, what is CEO group and non CEO group. This is just gimmicks.

From what I understood till that moment, they had promised you a bonus once you make a deposit. You've made it, you've opted in for a deposit bonus and lost ( this is several times ). Then you've been transferred to the CEO group where you cry for another bonus to recover your losses and leave all profits to the broker ( some nonsense here ). A man explains to you 100 times ( one just get sick from the repetitiveness ) that it is not possible to credit you with a bonus since you've lost your previous deposits and in order to receive a bonus, you must make a new deposit with at least $10,000 in the balance so that they can credit you with such. After so many lies, you process a $10,000 deposit and they credit you with a bonus on top of your $10,000! After several profitable deals, you start to gamble again ( by opening several options with a total loss of about $5,000 which is 50% of your balance when you just don't have any information whether price is going up or down ). You've missed your chance to be in that so-called "CEO group", where you can have some piece of helpful information. Then, you have been asked again to make a deposit so that you can cover your losses which you completely refuse...

Please, tell us where I am wrong? Which part is not true and how did the company actually cheated you?!
Providing you with signals is not cheating at all. Noone has ever given you an investment advice

If I tell that Banc de Binary really cheated you and accept the fact that they are guilty, I must assume that the first person with whom you dealt with is working for that company( there's some proof that he works there, at the very end of the chat convos, although we can argue on that ) and he had intentionally lead you to losing all of your account funds. Then another question comes in...why you stick to that company and you continue to make deposits with them, accumulating losses every time. Shouldn't you stay away from such company which tries to scam you?! Shouldn't you tell your wealthy friends that this company somehow cheated you, instead of promising to refer some of them ?
Once, you tell us that the company cheated you and all you want is people to know that and stay away from it. In the other time, you promise to advertise the company so that you can withdraw or partially recover your losses.
What are you exactly trying to say?!

"Investment advice (e.g unsuitable advice)" and "Quality or lack of information provided to the client " are considered to be scam.

There's a difference between advice ( investment advice ), financial planning, signal ( both free or paid ) and portfolio ( or account ) management.
You have been provided with a signal service which does not include risk management. It is your duty!

 

[naveen1020]

Unlike casinos, where you just rely on probabilities and chances, in the binary options trading you could successfully manage your risks which you have't done. That's why me and the "broker" ( from the chat history ) call this gambling and not investing. You have just acted like playing in a casino.

Now, you changed your story, where earlier you purely compared it with roulette and now you are saying, you can successfully manage..hmm..

Again.. same old story.. you gambled.. you gambled... when I followed his advise. I will leave your topic here.

From what I understood till that moment, they had promised you a bonus once you make a deposit. You've made it, you've opted in for a deposit bonus and lost ( this is several times ). Then you've been transferred to the CEO group where you cry for another bonus to recover your losses

Same old story.. I made a deposit and asked for deposit bonus as per what they promised. As they changed tone after deposit, I sent those statements, to get my rightful deposit. Read my earlier posts or chat before comment. Also gave ~100% and not 125% as what they promised before deposit.

Read the case or chat properly before comment. You keep on referring to the things, I lost..I lost.. but never referred to the things what they promised where I just followed their advise.

you start to gamble again ( by opening several options with a total loss of about $5,000 which is 50% of your balance when you just don't have any information whether price is going up or down ). You've missed your chance to be in that so-called "CEO group", where you can have some piece of helpful information. Then, you have been asked again to make a deposit so that you can cover your losses which you completely refuse...

Again.. some nonsense.. Read the case properly and just don't give some invalid reasons since you don't have any valid points.
Does your statement makes any sense. I clearly mentioned and gave proof where broker made a loss of ~125k and how can my account balance is just double of 5k.
Why you are not referring to the loss made by broker, which is ~125k by giving wrong signals..

Again, what is CEO group and non CEO group. They removed me from CEO group, since I didn't deposited another 10k. Read the case properly.

Please, tell us where I am wrong? Which part is not true and how did the company actually cheated you?!
Providing you with signals is not cheating at all. Noone has ever given you an investment advice

This is where the views differ with you. Shouldn't provide wrong signals (of course I don't expect 100% correct but if they can't give atleast 70% correct, unfit for that job), and tell all sorts of stories with VIP accounts, risk free trades...etc..,

Then another question comes in...why you stick to that company and you continue to make deposits with them, accumulating losses every time. Shouldn't you stay away from such company which tries to scam you?! Shouldn't you tell your wealthy friends that this company somehow cheated you, instead of promising to refer some of them ?
Once, you tell us that the company cheated you and all you want is people to know that and stay away from it. In the other time, you promise to advertise the company so that you can withdraw or partially recover your losses.
What are you exactly trying to say?!

I wonder what you read the chat.. Its so clearly mentioned that I will tell my other friends, if they recover my account and if I withdraw. Its normal, that if brokers are good and we are profitable, we will inform others. This happened before they emptied my account.

[23/3/2015 6:23:10 PM] naveen_k: I can gaurantee.. to get 4 others with ~50 to 100k colleagues.. if I can cover my losses
....
[25/3/2015 3:50:11 PM] Danny Goldman: Get someone on board this month, why wait
[25/3/2015 3:50:42 PM] naveen_k: I have to show them results.. as proof
[25/3/2015 3:50:47 PM] naveen_k: of withdrawal..
[25/3/2015 3:50:51 PM] Danny Goldman: Ok.

There's a difference between advice ( investment advice ), financial planning, signal ( both free or paid ) and portfolio ( or account ) management.
You have been provided with a signal service which does not include risk management. It is your duty!

Ok.. pointless discussion.

As said in simple...

They promised that I can make profits by depositing with them (VIP accounts, risk free trades etc...) and they will guide. Did I got profit with their advise. Just yes or no (Don't drag it)..The simple answer is no.

Let's leave the topic here as this will go endless.