Discuss FxOpen.com ( FxEgypt)

[fxfrench]

I'm not about it.
What I am about is: this wasn't prohibited when I did it. I didn't know I do any damage to your business. So while I respect your rights to protect yourself, I don't like the way you did it. It was just enough to ask me to stop it. No point to call me for rules violation and have me to beg you to release my money. I already explained it.

I don't know the details of your account or your troubles to withdraw but I will ask in the morning when the office is open. I am concerned though since we do not have a policy of being obstructive in that regard. If you would like to explain what happened in private, please email me manager@fxfrench.com and explain your withdrawal difficulties.

That's the point! I would rather ask you: why?
It works in tester but not realtime. I know, the tester is not reliable.
But it confirms the code functionality.
I modified the EA to enter at market instead of stops. But the orders don't get filled. Why? I take your Ask or Bid, add slippage...

If it is major news releases you are trading, I assume it would be the liquidity issue. When a major news release happens, most of the bigger liquidity sources dry up as the professional analysts decide what they are going to do. When the liquidity dries up, the spread widens, sometimes significantly as is normal in a supply/demand market. This would explain why you are not getting filled on news trades, especially if you would be subjected to excessive slippage (in excess of 100 pips for example because the next available liquidity is at a crazy price), in that case our server will not transmit the order so that you are saved from a significant loss.

But still there is something I don't get Mr FxFrench:

You provide quotes, you accept orders based on your quotes and then you say these orders are prohibited or illegal or else.

Few days after my account was blocked (and after some discussion with support) I got another message (this is the most important part of it):

"We provide our clients with a fixed spread that is subject to spikes (fast market price movement up and down) during market conditions prior to significant news releases or international events with economic consequences. These spikes are based on our feed providers widening their spreads during these certain market conditions. Stop orders that are placed right before such news releases or events can be triggered by the price movement caused by the widening of spreads. In an effort to minimize client problems as a result of these spikes, all accounts using the strategy of placing Buy Stop and Sell Stop pending orders just before significant releases, with prices that are very close to the current market price, will be blocked".

If you have tech issues with your providers why won't you fix it?
Why won't you simply stop accepting orders in such conditions?
Why do you put the blame on customers?

This is not a tech issue at all but it is how a market maker with fixed spread operates. A significantly widened spread on the real market, can affect the quoted prices within the market maker environment which may in extreme circumstances, spike around quite wildly. Again I don't know the full details of your account, but from what I see you have quoted here, the dealer (?) is explaining how he has decided to protect you from unfair spikes by denying a losing strategy from working at all. Afterall, straddling is a losing strategy. You may sometimes get lucky but overall, you will lose. Believe me I have tried every method under the sun to get it to work in the almost 10 years I have been trading personally in the market and I have yet to see a straddling method that a) works, and b) would be easy for a dealing desk dealer to effectively hedge for risk on the market.

If I lose due to my faults I don't blame any broker...
If my SL was triggered by just a pip or two I don't start shouting: "this is illegal broker activity to push prices to trigger my stop".
I simply correct my trading methods to avoid it happening in future.
But you take actions against your customers...

You are still free to devise a method that works in an ECN account that also takes into account liquidity issues. If you feel you have been accused of something I am sorry for that. I don't think there was any intention to offend.

I didn't say that. I said I don't like the way he occupies the forum. Pages long. Lots of promo stuff. This is what I don't like. Conversely I do like he assists FX Open customers here.

I am here to answer questions and to post relevant material as requested by my superiors. To be fair, our purely promotional activities are kept to a minimum on FPA forum as compared to other forum promotion activities that we engage in aren't they?

 

[Teodor Jackson]

Again I don't know the full details of your account, but from what I see you have quoted here, the dealer (?) is explaining how he has decided to protect you from unfair spikes by denying a losing strategy from working at all.

No. He didn't do it to protect me. He did it to prevent me.
Basically he says he was caught between my order and the market in losing position. So he simply decided to block me. The "customer protection" is just hypocrisy. Protect me against what? Profit?
But again - why won't you simply stop taking orders if you know they may trigger this kind of action?

Afterall, straddling is a losing strategy. You may sometimes get lucky but overall, you will lose. Believe me I have tried every method under the sun to get it to work in the almost 10 years I have been trading personally in the market and I have yet to see a straddling method that a) works, and b) would be easy for a dealing desk dealer to effectively hedge for risk on the market.

I've been using it on two demo accounts for 11 weeks. Over 65% winning trades. Profit factor 2.38 in fully automated trading and over 4.3 in managed trading.
I could test it on live account for just 30 days before it got locked. It shows 68% and 1.28 PF. Mainly due to some slippage and too short forward test period. But it general it confirms the demo performance.
Why do you say it's losing strategy?

 

[fxfrench]

Why do you say it's losing strategy?

One day you will get whipsawed out in both directions or slipped terribly. Then you might agree

 

[Teodor Jackson]

One day you will get whipsawed out in both directions or slipped terribly. Then you might agree

Sure. You're absolutely right.
If you overleverage. If you get greedy.
If you get overconfident and forget to collect account profit frequently.
If your broker forbids OCO execution so you're left with opposite order still pending while the first one fired...

"The prohibited strategy is:

1. Set up two STOP BUY/SELL orders in the same currency pair simultaneously with short TP and SL levels just before significant news on the market
2. Cancellation one of them just right now after one of orders is activated"

Is the second point is to ensure the customer won't escape the whipsaw you mentioned?

If you find your the EA working against you without any real control...
If you don't have supporting tools to qualify and manage the trade in realtime...

Looks like I unveiled my secrets. Not even half ;-)
And of course you need to take some time and learn the thing.
Fortunately FPA is great source of knowledge and historic examples.

I had few bad trades. One of them really bad on live - hit me when I was overexposed - greed, I doubled my base leverage ;-)
That's one of reasons it shows 1:28 PF while demos are much better. But still in profit. My Money Management handles the loses.

I still don't get why the market orders didn't work on ECN DEMO.
This is simulated trading. I got your quotes and immediately sent market order. Why did your server ignore my virtual order? Timing?

You know, it was just curiosity that made me to write this EA.
One of my colleagues asked why won't to straddle the spikes instead of trying to enter at market.
Well, why not?
I know it's very old and rather primitive technique but I was just curious if it works... Little I knew brokers fear it...

 

[Teodor Jackson]

Ok Teodore, all the best in your trading and try not to rush into too many battles; yah! : ) …..not long now to start of market trading time and we will need the energy and wits about us for a slice of that usd3 trillion pie; right? : )

Cheers!

Good point - indeed have enough of fighting. Not only losing energy but also the most precious thing in the world - lifetime.
It's enough every day I have to make my way trough overwhelming... brainlessness. If this is the right word.
And marketing lies everywhere ;-)

Mind you Red Cross had to help thousands of stranded passengers in Brussels, the heart of the proud European Community - its administrative capital city!
All the clerks and all the bureaucrats and all their regulations, all the king's horses and all the king's men could not do it... Only charity organization. What world do we live in?

I have to know not only about trading but also about marketing, advertising, banking, electricity, electronics, computing, networking, car engineering, health care, carpentry, even plumbing... I had to fix my washing machine myself because nobody had been willing to do it for money in reasonable time. In a center of one of modern European capital cities.
Too much for one :-|

Hey, FX Open hiked spreads and limit/stop levels three fold this week.
So I have this week off - thanks guys, it wasn't my plan but I appreciate it
The Greed may wait.
This made my post back to FX Open topic ;-) Not for long...

My other broker is so sleepy it's hard to find anything moving there...

Well, the Asian session was really nice Sunday/Monday but usually I'm well asleep during that time... Hope you managed some pips on the Chinese rate hike dip - this was almost textbook action.

Things may gather momentum right from the 3rd January. Some say they may start another round of debt fear driven deleveraging.
Hmm... deleveraging from Euro and delevraging from Greenback?
Everything goes to Asia nowadays. And it looks it's going to stay there for much longer than anyone expected. Not years - decades.
China is buying Europe dirt cheap...
I don't blame them - it's the Europe that dumps itself so why won't to take this opportunity? Especially if you're about 5-10 years timeframe?
We'll see.

I wish I could go for nice journey to Asia.
I mean something longer, much longer much better than the standard 10 days tourists excursion: 3 AM plane take off, landing in a middle of a day, bus, hotel, lunch, bus, sightseeing, photos, souvenirs, dinner, bus, hotel, night, lousy breakfast, bus... awful.
I already picked some places in various countries.
But when I look at the list of all the places I know (or rather map on G...Earth), I have a feeling not in my lifetime...
I'm not about all the plastic tourist stuff, you know...

Talk to much. Time to sleep. Take care all of you.

Cheers
ALX

 

[Teodor Jackson]

Mr FxFrech,

You hiked spreads and limits three fold for the holiday week. In fixed spread accounts.
Ok, no problem, I don't have to trade it.
BUY it also affects the MT4 tester - it takes trading parameters from the latest known broker set.
Now I'm not only prevented from trading but I also cannot use the tester to develop my toys...

 

[fxfrench]

I know it's very old and rather primitive technique but I was just curious if it works... Little I knew brokers fear it...

If you found a way to make it work, you might scare the dealing desk a little That is why you are allowed to trade this style on an ECN account where it will not damage anything. At least FXOpen gives you the option!

Mr FxFrech,

You hiked spreads and limits three fold for the holiday week. In fixed spread accounts.
Ok, no problem, I don't have to trade it.
BUY it also affects the MT4 tester - it takes trading parameters from the latest known broker set.
Now I'm not only prevented from trading but I also cannot use the tester to develop my toys...

You could try testing on an ECN demo. Apart from unpredictable spreads and conditions, everything is unaffected pretty much. At least until the little liquidity that is left goes on holiday.

 

[Teodor Jackson]

You could try testing on an ECN demo. Apart from unpredictable spreads and conditions, everything is unaffected pretty much. At least until the little liquidity that is left goes on holiday.

Well, it's not that easy. I don't know if you ever wrote any MT4 automation...
I have a long and very good quality history collected on live fixed spread feed.
I don't have it on ECN and I won't have it as your server doesn't store enough 1 minute bars. Tech limitation.
The next thing is the feed timing. The live fixed is GMT+2 no DST.
The ECN seems to be GMT+2 DST. Am I right?
If you flip DST on/off I have absolutely no way to detect it on history data:-(
In effect if I time the trading to work say on Tokyo Lunch Time or London to US transition I may be one hour off sync. Which may turn good trade into bad trade.

Besides price action is different and that affects 99.9% of software - you know, it's blind. I works of if... then.
You may have a gap on ECN feed and just a ripple on fixed in the same time or other way round. Enough to trigger bad trade.
Stops may not work on ECN, I saw that happen many times...

Fortunately I found a way to work around this issue ;-) I mean the special trading parameters.

 

[fxfrench]

Well, it's not that easy. I don't know if you ever wrote any MT4 automation...
I have a long and very good quality history collected on live fixed spread feed.
I don't have it on ECN and I won't have it as your server doesn't store enough 1 minute bars. Tech limitation.
The next thing is the feed timing. The live fixed is GMT+2 no DST.
The ECN seems to be GMT+2 DST. Am I right?
If you flip DST on/off I have absolutely no way to detect it on history data:-(
In effect if I time the trading to work say on Tokyo Lunch Time or London to US transition I may be one hour off sync. Which may turn good trade into bad trade.

Besides price action is different and that affects 99.9% of software - you know, it's blind. I works of if... then.
You may have a gap on ECN feed and just a ripple on fixed in the same time or other way round. Enough to trigger bad trade.
Stops may not work on ECN, I saw that happen many times...

Fortunately I found a way to work around this issue ;-) I mean the special trading parameters.

I have done a little mql programming, but basic stuff.

Your dilemma is to find a way to make things work ok on ECN since Market Makers are not going to like this EA at all. ECN is your only choice really.

If you can get it to work on ECN, you would clean up.

 

[Teodor Jackson]

I have done a little mql programming, but basic stuff.

Your dilemma is to find a way to make things work ok on ECN since Market Makers are not going to like this EA at all. ECN is your only choice really.

If you can get it to work on ECN, you would clean up.

I didn't say I'm about this particular EA
Actually this one is put on hold.
But I have other toys. Not that controversial ;-)