Forex and religion
- Thread starter Ricex
- Start date
Music Man
Corporal
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- 91
FWIW, I don't buy the "no value" argument regarding trading. Traders pay taxes and spend money in their local economies, as well as raising families. Also, the trading business contributes to the advancement of computer technology and applied mathematics. These are all positive contributions to society. Does a paparazzi or tabloid contribute more?
Aside from those general contributions, I know of successful traders who turn their profits into venture capital for green energy startups, as well as other positive ventures. The formation of venture capital is a huge contribution, creating jobs, etc.
The argument really boils down to the individual. It's not the money one makes, or even how one makes it (within legal bounds), but what one does with it that makes all the difference. No one is forced to be a greedy, selfish person, nor can you force someone to be a saint.
As for religion, well, I am pretty sure that no organized religion has it right. Too much politics.
MM
Aside from those general contributions, I know of successful traders who turn their profits into venture capital for green energy startups, as well as other positive ventures. The formation of venture capital is a huge contribution, creating jobs, etc.
The argument really boils down to the individual. It's not the money one makes, or even how one makes it (within legal bounds), but what one does with it that makes all the difference. No one is forced to be a greedy, selfish person, nor can you force someone to be a saint.
As for religion, well, I am pretty sure that no organized religion has it right. Too much politics.
MM
Ricex
Sergeant
- Messages
- 358
Hey MM nice to see you.
My idea of value is for example, a doctor who spends all day fixing people, gets paid and wether he puts his money under the floorboards or spends it on as many good causes as he can think of, he has at the end of the day still done something of value for society.
A taxi driver takes people from A to B, he's useful even if he doesn't spend his earnings. I believe it is important how you earn your money.
A forex speculator is of no intrinsic use to society, if they didn't exist it wouldn't be a problem. If some want to do positive things with their money that's fine, but that alone doesn't award them any real value.
My idea of value is for example, a doctor who spends all day fixing people, gets paid and wether he puts his money under the floorboards or spends it on as many good causes as he can think of, he has at the end of the day still done something of value for society.
A taxi driver takes people from A to B, he's useful even if he doesn't spend his earnings. I believe it is important how you earn your money.
A forex speculator is of no intrinsic use to society, if they didn't exist it wouldn't be a problem. If some want to do positive things with their money that's fine, but that alone doesn't award them any real value.
cowmadagan
Sergeant
- Messages
- 393
Well, a corollary to your idea, Rice, is that many researchers wouldn't do anything of value for society either.
I'm primarily aiming this at the ones who simply find more ways to get grants, like much of the experiments in psychology. A made up example of this is: 80% of people tested decide to quit our test of shocking them at five second intervals within the first hour once the voltage was at 50V or above.
Ken Wiber found nine distinct meanings of the word 'Religion' and from memory they were 1. a single or set of irrational beliefs, 2. the source of inspiration for the person's actions (like, science, music, or trading is his religion ) 3. a force that leads one to hypostitization or regression 4. a means to include more of Reality in one's sense of identity 5. A sociological movement that serves the society's needs more than the individual's 6. A sociological movement that serves to bring the society's sense of identity to include more of Reality....
erm...I think one was like a crutch...
I've got the book here if any one cares for the actual answers...
Cheers
I'm primarily aiming this at the ones who simply find more ways to get grants, like much of the experiments in psychology. A made up example of this is: 80% of people tested decide to quit our test of shocking them at five second intervals within the first hour once the voltage was at 50V or above.
Ken Wiber found nine distinct meanings of the word 'Religion' and from memory they were 1. a single or set of irrational beliefs, 2. the source of inspiration for the person's actions (like, science, music, or trading is his religion ) 3. a force that leads one to hypostitization or regression 4. a means to include more of Reality in one's sense of identity 5. A sociological movement that serves the society's needs more than the individual's 6. A sociological movement that serves to bring the society's sense of identity to include more of Reality....
erm...I think one was like a crutch...
I've got the book here if any one cares for the actual answers...
Cheers
Ricex
Sergeant
- Messages
- 358
That's true, but in your example your talking of researchers who are trying to either pervert a system for personal gain (grant money) or just happen to be doing some really bad research with no apparent value, I think that these two still remain a very small percentage of overall researchers who offer value and find new knowledge, at least that is their desire.
It is the same as accepting a tiny percentage of doctors don't care, but generally doctors do care and affirm there value to society.
It is in regard to this 'value to society' that I find the clash between forex and this zealous interpretation of the value that god puts upon accumulating wealth.
Why? when so obviously our society is deciding that this sort of trading is not to it's liking, based on it's perceived association with true blue capitalism, financial crisis, individualistic and greed mentalities, are we to believe that god has another idea. God is rewarding what society currently finds abhorent. It's normally the other way round isn't it?
He's an interesting guy Cowmad, I like his 'holon' ideas, everything " a whole unto itself, and as a part of some other whole"........ cool.
Music Man
Corporal
- Messages
- 91
This reminds me of a discussion I had on another (non-FX) board regarding good and evil. My observation is that lots of what people refer to as "good" or "evil" is just food-chain relativism -- what's good for the trout is bad for the mayfly.
Notions of good and evil that are not related to physical survival are in the service of human ideas and abstractions. Is there such a thing as good and evil that exists outside the minds of humans? Most would say yes, but details vary from culture to culture.
How does one seek the even more abstract "societal good" and how is "society" an entity that has the power to discern existential good and evil?
No one questions the value of those who buy and sell widgets. Why is trading in one item more or less valuable than another?
Anyway, every time you place a trade, you perform a service to the entity on the other side of the trade. They wanted to sell, so you bought. Someone else wanted to buy, so you sold. Buying and selling... a market, even in currencies. That's an intrinsic value to society, as it greases the wheels of international commerce. It may not be of value according to someone's religious beliefs, but I probably do not share those beliefs.
And even if I did, I might observe that talents are given to be used. It should be pleasing to God for singers to sing, painters to paint and traders to trade.
MM
Notions of good and evil that are not related to physical survival are in the service of human ideas and abstractions. Is there such a thing as good and evil that exists outside the minds of humans? Most would say yes, but details vary from culture to culture.
How does one seek the even more abstract "societal good" and how is "society" an entity that has the power to discern existential good and evil?
No one questions the value of those who buy and sell widgets. Why is trading in one item more or less valuable than another?
Anyway, every time you place a trade, you perform a service to the entity on the other side of the trade. They wanted to sell, so you bought. Someone else wanted to buy, so you sold. Buying and selling... a market, even in currencies. That's an intrinsic value to society, as it greases the wheels of international commerce. It may not be of value according to someone's religious beliefs, but I probably do not share those beliefs.
And even if I did, I might observe that talents are given to be used. It should be pleasing to God for singers to sing, painters to paint and traders to trade.
MM
Eric Alyea
Master Sergeant
- Messages
- 363
What’s the point
bad timing let cowmadagain go 1st
bad timing let cowmadagain go 1st
Last edited:
cowmadagan
Sergeant
- Messages
- 393
Good answer MM,
The only thing that I might add is about your good and evil bit.
You've touched on the fact that good and evil are subjective, but you didn't address the mistake of moral relativism. For example, it's a bad call to say that the Athenian men had sex with boys and that's ok for them and not for us (or worse that it should be reinstituted). The fact is that pedophilia leads to huge trust issues in the child, which can be of the form of eating disorders or mental regression, and you can't say there's even an upside to that.
That shows that some moral codes are better than others, but the wisdom of moral relativism is that a code can't be complete. For that we need to find principles rather than laws, and intuition rather than prescribed actions.
What I mean is, the principle of equanimity can be paired with the lack of necessity for a trout vs mayfly dynamic, and that ethically blows away any narcissistic code. Of course, this pairing can be overused due to poor math skills and over-reliance on government, and we call that socialism.
Applied equanimity in my opinion requires that we don't maliciously cause harm for enjoyment, and since death is inevitable the trout eating the mayfly is ok as long as it doesn't cause and slowly watch the mayfly dying. Again it's only ok for the trout to eat the mayfly because of the pairing of a lack of a reason for the trout to sacrifice itself completely by not eating, and the implicit necessity to eat.
I think the rest of your post was particularly good as I think too many things in this world (like oil companies) are regarded with attention paid only to their bad side and ignoring the good.
The only thing that I might add is about your good and evil bit.
You've touched on the fact that good and evil are subjective, but you didn't address the mistake of moral relativism. For example, it's a bad call to say that the Athenian men had sex with boys and that's ok for them and not for us (or worse that it should be reinstituted). The fact is that pedophilia leads to huge trust issues in the child, which can be of the form of eating disorders or mental regression, and you can't say there's even an upside to that.
That shows that some moral codes are better than others, but the wisdom of moral relativism is that a code can't be complete. For that we need to find principles rather than laws, and intuition rather than prescribed actions.
What I mean is, the principle of equanimity can be paired with the lack of necessity for a trout vs mayfly dynamic, and that ethically blows away any narcissistic code. Of course, this pairing can be overused due to poor math skills and over-reliance on government, and we call that socialism.
Applied equanimity in my opinion requires that we don't maliciously cause harm for enjoyment, and since death is inevitable the trout eating the mayfly is ok as long as it doesn't cause and slowly watch the mayfly dying. Again it's only ok for the trout to eat the mayfly because of the pairing of a lack of a reason for the trout to sacrifice itself completely by not eating, and the implicit necessity to eat.
I think the rest of your post was particularly good as I think too many things in this world (like oil companies) are regarded with attention paid only to their bad side and ignoring the good.
Eric Alyea
Master Sergeant
- Messages
- 363
better timing, that's the point
What’s the point.
Ok you nut case’s, this is enough take it to, and keep it out side the Mess Hall and duke it out.
My point not the good and evil stuff, covered in the duality of self below, actually does cross over and relate to Forex,.... Finally, and I wish it was someone else not me that would say this.
What’s the point. The “Point” is that there is "ONE" singularity observance.
The common shared “Reality” you and I have dreams, visions, hope’s, but when the gavel strikes on the Judges bench (or the candles are history on the charts) a consensus will be made, singularity observance.
Take a coin heads or tails, two sides.
Head’s one side (1st dimension) {Ricex}
Tail’s the other side (2nd dimension) {cowmadagan}
Look at it’s edge, 2 side’s together as one (3rd dimension) {them with opposing idea’s here}
If you hold it (in your hand and your mind) and move it (in both) you have two things together (actually one observed in the same time space continuum).
Time transition (4th dimension)
Visual observance of physical Time transition (5th dimension)
Intentional controlling input on physical transition (6th dimension)
I’m bored and want to end a fight not start one.
If I go into the math of the collapse and manifestation of the many world’s theory into the singularity of communal observance, you would know that the “I will” divided by the “I won’t” equals the “I might” just like Ohm’s law
Ohm's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It’s not magic, just collective materialization.
Get on with trading hug your family (or what ever you grab to get your joy in your life) and be happy,. This is as good as it get’s
The aggregate compilation on (9th dimension) is reality
What’s the point.
Ok you nut case’s, this is enough take it to, and keep it out side the Mess Hall and duke it out.
My point not the good and evil stuff, covered in the duality of self below, actually does cross over and relate to Forex,.... Finally, and I wish it was someone else not me that would say this.
What’s the point. The “Point” is that there is "ONE" singularity observance.
The common shared “Reality” you and I have dreams, visions, hope’s, but when the gavel strikes on the Judges bench (or the candles are history on the charts) a consensus will be made, singularity observance.
Take a coin heads or tails, two sides.
Head’s one side (1st dimension) {Ricex}
Tail’s the other side (2nd dimension) {cowmadagan}
Look at it’s edge, 2 side’s together as one (3rd dimension) {them with opposing idea’s here}
If you hold it (in your hand and your mind) and move it (in both) you have two things together (actually one observed in the same time space continuum).
Time transition (4th dimension)
Visual observance of physical Time transition (5th dimension)
Intentional controlling input on physical transition (6th dimension)
I’m bored and want to end a fight not start one.
If I go into the math of the collapse and manifestation of the many world’s theory into the singularity of communal observance, you would know that the “I will” divided by the “I won’t” equals the “I might” just like Ohm’s law
Ohm's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It’s not magic, just collective materialization.
Get on with trading hug your family (or what ever you grab to get your joy in your life) and be happy,. This is as good as it get’s
The aggregate compilation on (9th dimension) is reality
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