Ponzi Scheme Managed Account Question - Courtenay House Trading Group

[Guacamayo]

I've asked this before, but would it be a good idea to set in motion a class action civil suit against Tony personally (assuming that all our invested funds are not returned by Courtenay House)? According to the court judgment, Tony may have been misusing some of his clients' invested funds for personal use. If that is indeed the case then I think a fair case could be made that Tony should return said funds back to clients.

 

[Pani959]

I've asked this before, but would it be a good idea to set in motion a class action civil suit against Tony personally (assuming that all our invested funds are not returned by Courtenay House)? According to the court judgment, Tony may have been misusing some of his clients' invested funds for personal use. If that is indeed the case then I think a fair case could be made that Tony should return said funds back to clients.

There are very few 'knowns' in this equation, so it may become necessary to take a litigious approach in due course; however, until there is some transparency generally this type of action may act to muddy the waters and cause undue delay. Viewed optimistically, the liquidator will open lines of communication with CHCTG's client base once they have an appreciation of the company's position.

 

[Pani959]

I emailed ASIC to ask them what is going on and they gave me a call and said we cannot reveal any more information than what we have listed on the site. I spoke to Candice Harris who can be contacted on candice.Harris@asic.gov.au and she requested that clients provide ASIC with any relevant financial documentation regarding Courtenay House. I haven't provided any as of yet as I am uncomfortable revealing this personal information. Have any other clients provided ASIC full documents of Courtenay House? I am also hesitant to join that facebook group since members can be publicly seen. But I believe everyone involved with Courtenay House should post any updates here on this thread.

In addressing the extent to which I may choose to share my confidential agreements with ASIC, I feel that extreme caution should be observed.

What's the question? Is Tony a good bloke? Answer is no by the way.

Reading through the judgement it seems that good bloke Tony may have been using your money to play the pokies amongst other things and is deemed a possible flight risk. Unbelievable. If you read the links that Pharaoh posted earlier you will have a fairly good idea what's coming.

Take Pharaoh's advice and tell ASIC everything you know or can, it will help to resolve this quicker and hopefully get these crooks put behind bars. The denial has to stop, its not a minor licencing issue, Courtenay House was a scam and will never trade again.

I suspect you may be incorrect in the guidance you have provided about 'telling ASIC everything you know', Toldyaso. In a conversation with one of ASIC's legal team yesterday, they now have what they need and do not require further input from 'the consumer' as we are known. ASIC's investigation, moving forward, will focus on breaches under the ACT. Collateral damage which has been caused to the consumer by these breaches will be managed by the liquidator.

 

[Lyla74]

I actually took the time to read the article Pharoah wrote and it is unfortunately very convincing and sounds very accurate, though we still need to remain positive that we haven't become victims of a ponzi scheme and that CHCTG are in fact genuine but only time will tell.

Hope so

 

[Peacekeeper]

ASIC just charged them, haven't found them guilty yet. In that case, ASIC aren't able to enforce liquidation. Does this mean CHCTG are in voluntary liquidation? If that is the case, what does that mean, good/bad?

 

[AsstModerator]

In addressing the extent to which I may choose to share my confidential agreements with ASIC, I feel that extreme caution should be observed.

I suspect you may be incorrect in the guidance you have provided about 'telling ASIC everything you know', Toldyaso. In a conversation with one of ASIC's legal team yesterday, they now have what they need and do not require further input from 'the consumer' as we are known. ASIC's investigation, moving forward, will focus on breaches under the ACT. Collateral damage which has been caused to the consumer by these breaches will be managed by the liquidator.

According to ASIC, they still want to hear from investors and anyone having relevant information...

http://asic.gov.au/courtenay-house

and

http://asic.gov.au/about-asic/media...-pty-limited-and-courtenay-house-pty-limited/

"5. Investor Communication with ASIC
ASIC will continue to keep investors in Courtenay House Trading Group and Courtenay House informed by updating and posting announcements on this dedicated website which can be found at http://asic.gov.au/courtenay-house.

ASIC would like to hear from investors who have current investments with Courtenay House Trading Group and/or Courtenay House, or have any information relevant to its investigation of those companies and their directors. To contact ASIC please email courtenayhouse.investor@asic.gov.au with your preferred contact details including telephone numbers so that ASIC's enforcement team can respond to you directly."


The FPA is always in favor of victims of a potential fraud sharing information with relevant regulators, especially any banking or money transfer information associated with a company under investigation. Until ASIC publicly says otherwise, the official viewpoint of the FPA is that all clients and anyone with any relevant information about Courtenay house should share all information they have with ASIC.

If ASIC already has all the information, no harm is done by more clients providing confirming evidence. If someone provides a piece of information ASIC does not already have, this could end up being a key piece of evidence.

Unless ASIC changes the information on their website to say they don't need any more evidence, I personally urge everyone with information about Courtenay House to share it with ASIC immediately.

 

[Septemberrain]

According to ASIC, they still want to hear from investors and anyone having relevant information...

http://asic.gov.au/courtenay-house

and

http://asic.gov.au/about-asic/media...-pty-limited-and-courtenay-house-pty-limited/

"5. Investor Communication with ASIC
ASIC will continue to keep investors in Courtenay House Trading Group and Courtenay House informed by updating and posting announcements on this dedicated website which can be found at http://asic.gov.au/courtenay-house.

ASIC would like to hear from investors who have current investments with Courtenay House Trading Group and/or Courtenay House, or have any information relevant to its investigation of those companies and their directors. To contact ASIC please email courtenayhouse.investor@asic.gov.au with your preferred contact details including telephone numbers so that ASIC's enforcement team can respond to you directly."


The FPA is always in favor of victims of a potential fraud sharing information with relevant regulators, especially any banking or money transfer information associated with a company under investigation. Until ASIC publicly says otherwise, the official viewpoint of the FPA is that all clients and anyone with any relevant information about Courtenay house should share all information they have with ASIC.

If ASIC already has all the information, no harm is done by more clients providing confirming evidence. If someone provides a piece of information ASIC does not already have, this could end up being a key piece of evidence.

Unless ASIC changes the information on their website to say they don't need any more evidence, I personally urge everyone with information about Courtenay House to share it with ASIC immediately.

Hi Pharaoh and Asstmoderator,

You guys seem to have quiet a lot of understanding regarding this and thank you for your input. I just want to ask. I have been doing as much reading as possible and without stating the obvious if we have a look at the AMH Product Disclosure Statement which is couple of years old. link below

http://www.amhonline.com.au/courtenayhousecapital/Courtenay House Capital Investment Fund_6.pdf

Looks like Courtenay Trading House Group was legitimately trading on Scheme Number 155 250 433 which I believe is AMH's AFSL license and Halifax as the broker.

So obviously this trading with the monthly returns scheme (as I can see most of the investors in this forum are including myself) on their own without a license? I mean that would mean they setup their own bank fund to get everyone's money to exchange in. Would AMH have dropped them because they were doing that? Why didn't they just do the trade under AHM's license if it was a licensing issue.

I mean I know ASIC won't disclose much and its just waiting game until court date in September but surely there can be more information provided.

Historically speaking and from anyone's experience does anyone know of a company that has been trading without a license and doing some other dodgies on the side and or company that did end up a Ponzi Zcheme in Australia and got their money back? I guess every case is different just trying not to lose hope yet until more information is provided.

There was a big pyramid scheme here in Australia with a guy called Karl Solomon Froggy and Orange and I'm certain most people lost their money.

 

[Guacamayo]

Just a thought, has anyone asked Courtenay House for a copy of their member's registry, which, according to ASIC should have a list of all the company's clients. It would make client organization far easier for any potential future action.

Also, could someone with access to the Courtenay House Clients facebook group please mention to the admin that there are a number of clients of Courtenay House who have still not been granted access to the group and their requests to join have been pending for over 2 days.

 

[MightyOwl]

Hello guys

ASIC has requested more information from investors , and would like other clients to send it to them, please send it to them ASAP too: Courtenayhouse.Investor@asic.gov.au

I confirm that ASIC has received the documentation you sent. Thank you for sending this material through.

Other documentation and information that would assist:
Any Investment Management agreements between you and Courtenay House.
Any recent correspondence between you and Courtenay House.

If there are any other investors who you believe would like to assist ASIC, it would be great if they could send through the above documents to assist with ASIC's Investigation. Also, the details of the dates and amounts that they have invested would be of assistance.

At the time the best thing clients can be doing is supporting the ASIC investigation since they have frozen the funds and providing the information they ask for could help them speed up the investigation and hopefully get an resolution sooner, also i believe the moderators trying to help also have said to help asic as much as you can.

The situation is unfortunate to all investors supporting the ASIC investigation 100% and waiting for ASIC update/court date is pretty much the only thing we can do now.

All the best to everyone involved in this.

 

[MightyOwl]

Also here is the CHTCG email sent the other day from there lawyers , CHCTG can no longer reply about this situation and can only issue responses through there lawyers now, not all clients are on the mailing list so some of you may not got it

they have basically confirmed they will no longer be trading/offering services as they won't be getting there own license now regardless what happens with this situation, so on my previous post and this one, support asic and hope you can get as much money as you can back as the company will be redundant in the future.



Dear Valued CHCTG clients
You recently received an email from us concerning recent developments.
ASIC has concerns about the contents of that email and has directed that we advise you of the following matters. Please note that this email is from our lawyers and we are unable to reveal any more information at this point.
1. The funds held by us are the subject of a freezing order obtained by ASIC.
2. That freezing order was obtained on the basis of a number of matters ASIC is investigating which include, but are not limited to, issues relating to the holding of an Australian Financial Services Licence (AFSL).
3. Under the freezing orders obtained by ASIC, we are not able to perform any financial services for the duration of those orders.
4. In the circumstances, we will not be transitioning to our own AFSL.
5. Whilst Mr Iervasi, Mr Sipina and Mr Papoulias are legally represented, neither Courtenay House Capital Trading Group Pty Ltd or Courtenay House Pty Ltd are legally represented in the proceedings brought by ASIC.
We appreciate that you are likely to have a lot of questions about these matters. Could we please ask that you contact ASIC with your queries.
Please note that as and when I have more information, I will send everyone an email with an update.

I would like to request @ asstmoderator and @Pharaoh to please give your opinion on this email if you have the time - thank you.

Also on the rates they were offering it was 1.5% first 50k, additional 50k lots was 4%, and they only paid 7.5% intrest a month if you had 200k+ invested and only allowed 7.5% on $50,000 there investment scheme was confusing AF, they were also known pay clients less on alot of months, e.g 2.5-3% instead of the projected 4%. so basically people were getting different rates ranging from 1.5 to 7.5% and you were awarded with higher rates with the more money you put in.

Also with the special trading offers i have heard of some people getting there capital back plus 15% profit for 1month of trading only so no idea how they managed that.