If the CFTC does this, say goodbye to retail forex in the USA

If I can't win with 100:1 leverage, then how come I'm up 20% for the year to date?

This market does not destroy anything, but fools and their money are soon parted, Forex trading or not.

MM


MORE LEVERAGE = STOPPING OUT FASTER.

THERE IS NO REASON TO USE MORE CAPITAL TO TRADE AN AMMOUNT -- IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO TRADE 10:1, USE THE CAPITAL -- TRADING 100:1 IS TOO RISKY!

THEY WANT YOU TO STOP OUT FASTER -- THE MARKET MAKING RETAIL BROKERS WANT YOU TO LOSE!

USE ONLY ESTABLISHED ECN BROKERS THAT OFFER NO LEVERAGE TRADES AS WELL AS FLEXIBLE LEVERAGE UP TO 10:1 !

THANK YOU CFTC FOR SAVING US FROM THE MARKET MAKERS!
 
Do ya really think a new trader will not wipe out his account just because your rule would limit the leverage available. I'm pretty sure both powered boats and sail boat will run aground if the skipper fails to do his due diligence.
 
>>made people poorer

Not really. If I buy, perhaps the seller is taking profit. If I sell, perhaps the buyer is playing a longer or shorter timeframe than I am -- we could both be winners or both be losers. The "zero sum game" argument is too simplistic to be valid.

That said, people are responsible for their own trading decisions. No one forces them to trade Forex and risk warnings are everywhere. Some people will only lose money, but it's their money to lose. Others will acquire the needed skills and do well. There is no need for a Forex nanny to make everyone use the plastic knives.

MM

...um yep everybody is taking profits ....maybe in your alternative universe.

and yes unfortunately people are generally stupid and safeguards are required. that is why you have cops on the roads for instance. this is a safeguard against financial suicide which most people commit with forex.
 
I hate to be the one to say it, but it's about time. Anything over 10:1 leverage is irresponsible and wreckless.

I've always supported the practitioner's guide for trading -- where professionals never trade with higher leverage than 10:1 -- and 10:1 is still high. I have always avoided brokers that do NOT offer flexible leverage. Brokers like MBTrading and Forex.com force you to use 100:1 because they want you to stop out earlier and lose more money and trade more and treat the FOREX market like your own little casino.

Thank you CFTC, for some sensible regulation in this wreckless market that destroys people's lives. You can not beat this market, and you should not be trading at more than 5:1 leverage -- and you should be using the market to hedge other investments rather than speculate carelessly in vain attempts to profit.

This is what the currency market is for!

No one forces a person to use all their leverage. Guess what? Stoplosses and a bit of math can easily let you exceed 10:1 while still controlling risk. Leverage alone isn't risk. The math is very simple and is clearly covered here...

https://www.forexpeacearmy.com/fore...2272-how-manage-risk-while-forex-trading.html

If you can't do the math and have to restrict yourself to 5:1, even with profits locked in, don't impose your personal limitations on the rest of the market. Even if 10:1 becomes law, reckless traders will still throw their money away. It will just take a small amount of extra time.

Good luck finding a broker in the USA if this passes. Most of them are fighting this and preparing contingency plans to pack up and leave the country if it passes.

You may be right. But again I am talking about the masses not the few who know how to make it work for them.
And your successful trades made most probably multiple people poorer faster.

If you feel that making profits trading is somehow stealing from other traders, give up trading - not just forex, but ALL trading. Is your position that limiting my chance to make profits is good, since it limits others' losses? If so, why not call for an end to all forms of trading. Even if a specific market isn't zero sum, ALL markets have at least a few people who flush their money down the toilet as fast as possible. There can be no chance of winning if there's no chance of losing in any market and under any market conditions.
 
Do ya really think a new trader will not wipe out his account just because your rule would limit the leverage available. I'm pretty sure both powered boats and sail boat will run aground if the skipper fails to do his due diligence.

he may but he won't be able to do it in one trade that a 100:1 leverage will effectively allow them to do. by the 10-20th trade perhaps he would have learned to trade better.

The forex market is like the stock market about 100 years ago. 100 years ago the US was littered with bucketshops that allowed you to leverage stock trades way beyond what we can today. that option went away with regulation in the 1900s. it is even illegal now to not pass a stock order to a central exchange in the US.

sooner or later this will happen with forex as well.
 
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No one forces a person to use all their leverage. Guess what? Stoplosses and a bit of math can easily let you exceed 10:1 while still controlling risk. Leverage alone isn't risk. The math is very simple and is clearly covered here...

https://www.forexpeacearmy.com/fore...2272-how-manage-risk-while-forex-trading.html

If you can't do the math and have to restrict yourself to 5:1, even with profits locked in, don't impose your personal limitations on the rest of the market. Even if 10:1 becomes law, reckless traders will still throw their money away. It will just take a small amount of extra time.

Good luck finding a broker in the USA if this passes. Most of them are fighting this and preparing contingency plans to pack up and leave the country if it passes.



If you feel that making profits trading is somehow stealing from other traders, give up trading - not just forex, but ALL trading. Is your position that limiting my chance to make profits is good, since it limits others' losses? If so, why not call for an end to all forms of trading. Even if a specific market isn't zero sum, ALL markets have at least a few people who flush their money down the toilet as fast as possible. There can be no chance of winning if there's no chance of losing in any market and under any market conditions.

Why should I? I trade but do not delude myself like some others how good forex trading is for the world (i am on the winning end and there have been many more losers on the other end of my trades) and I don't whine to high heaven about how bad this is... It is indeed bad for me but it is good for most people.
 
Inform to CFTC Seceratry

I have already send the mail to head of CFTC regarding the issue. i thanks to FPA for doing such good job for trader carrier.....
 
New leverage ratios

Hi Everyone!

I had to come back again and talk about leverage levels because I'm more than a little miffed, in fact I'm seething with rage at Gensler's proposals regarding lowering the leverage ratios to 10:1.
I've tried to read through most of the posts here and agree with most of them and don't understand others.
One in particular that caught my eye was a gentleman that said he never traded higher than with 10:1 leverage levels. I think there were a few to this effect and others saying that anything over 10:1 was gambling. I don't really agree with that. The only reason that you would use such a low leverage is if you wanted to use a very large stop level and be able to ride out all the retracements that might happen on the way to making a profit. I'm hoping that they're not confusing leverage levels with margin levels because using anything higher than about 5 to 10% margin gets darn risky if you don't know what you're doing.
I am a day trader and will always be one. I am not interested in riding out any kind of retracements nor taking part in the carry trade.
The forex isn't outright gambling but it is not "investing" in any sense of the word. It is speculation, pure and simple. Nothing more, nothing less. Because it is rampant speculation it is recognized as one the most if not the most risky form of "investment". Being the most risky form of making money we should expect to get a very good return on our money and 10:1 just doesn't cut it.
I know that this may not be the place to do it but I think a refresher on leverage levels is in order. Now, I think about leverage levels in a little bit of a different way and after I'm finished I invite feedback. Please be kind and constructive as I am a delicate flower and don't like being yelled at. If you do I'll turn around and become a nasty bast***.
I'm going to be dealing only with mini accounts, only the EUR/USD with a fictitious broker who gives you a margin call when your capital gets down to 50%. We are going to go back to the good old days when you could buy one mini lot for either $25, $50, $100, $200, etc., for clarity's sake.
In this mini account let's say we have $16,000 and you can choose leverage anywhere from 400:1 down to 10:1.
What leverage does is two things and they are in an inverse relationship.
Firstly, it determines how much you pay per lot and subsequently your profit or loss PER PIP.
Secondly, it determines how far away you can set your stop levels before you get a margin call.
You're a newbie and have visions of sugar plums floating in your head and think 400:1 leverage is going to make you a millionaire overnight. Quite the contrary. Nothing but a very nasty trap for the unwary. If you come across a broker who offers you 400:1 leverage, tell them in no uncertain terms what you think of them, DO NOT SIGN WITH THEM, run as fast as you can away from them and tell all your friends to avoid them like the plague. Because they're nothing but the worst scam artists.
I'm going to be using an extreme example just so that it will be a little clearer. Hope I won't be talking down to anyone because that's not my intent. I just want to illustrate what that little so-and-so Gensler is proposing.

Example #1-400:1 leverage

Investment $4000, buys 160 lots at $25 per lot, profit/loss $160 per pip.
Usable margin $12000. Margin left till margin call, $4000

Now we have $4000 of wiggle room till we get a margin call from our friendly neighbourhood broker which means at $160 per pip we can only set a stop at less than 25 pips. At 25 pips we get a margin call because we're down to 50% of our account. See, higher leverage, less wiggle room.

At 200:1, using the same numbers, we can obviously only set less than a 50 pip stop. Little better, almost usable, but not great. 50 pip retracements are not unheard of.

At 100:1, using the same numbers we can almost set a 100 pip stop before a margin call. Fairly workable if you're a day trader and are happy scalping for the 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 pip profits. Sometimes you luck out with the 100 pip profits. That's a good trade as far as I'm concerned. In and out of the market. Want nothing to do with retracements or rollovers at market close. Wham, bam, thank you maam! Takes my money and gets ready to fight another day. Voila! Mois!

Now, Gensler's proposal; 10:1 leverage.

Using the same numbers with a $4000 investment you can buy, ta da! all of four lots but you can set a 999 pip stop before a margin call. I must be special! Talk about lucky me! WOW!

Now, if you have oodles of cash and you are other than a day trader you want to be able to set large stops so as to ride out the retracements and there is nothing wrong with that but not my style.

The whole point of this diatribe is that if Gensler gets his way and sets leverage at 10:1, firstly, each lot will cost us MUCH MORE. MUCH, MUCH MORE! Less profit per pip but we can set humongous stops to our hearts content. What an advantage! Is he ever a nice guy! Always thinking of the underdog. Yeah, right. I hope you're all noticing the hint of sarcasm that I'm subtly trying to sneak in here and there.
It will make the domestic forex industry the exclusive domain of the very rich, who also probably will not put up with it and who in all probability will also elect to trade offshore.
Gensler isn't doing anyone any favours. If his leverage changes go through it will, without a shadow of a doubt, kill the domestic forex industry overnight and I, for one, will definitely trade in another jurisdiction.
There are bigger issues here. It's not so much about us as individual traders but really the retailers that are at serious risk of going out of business and having to lay off an enormous number of good, reasonably honest, hardworking people who don't deserve such a terrible fate. Especially in these times of high unemployment and lack of job security and scarcity. Why that little friggin' jackass would want to risk that, I have no idea.

This is really about the survival of the domestic forex industry.

Fight this tooth and nail with everything you've got. This really is serious sh**! Much worse than that bloody crap that came down from those bastards at the NFA!
I hope this helps a little bit with leverage. Please give me feedback if you think it appropriate.
I really do wish all of you the very best in 2010.
Health, happiness, abundance, prosperity and of course God's blessing to you all.

Sincerest regards,

Armin R.
 
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No one forces a person to use all their leverage. Guess what? Stoplosses and a bit of math can easily let you exceed 10:1 while still controlling risk. Leverage alone isn't risk. The math is very simple and is clearly covered here...

https://www.forexpeacearmy.com/fore...2272-how-manage-risk-while-forex-trading.html

If you can't do the math and have to restrict yourself to 5:1, even with profits locked in, don't impose your personal limitations on the rest of the market. Even if 10:1 becomes law, reckless traders will still throw their money away. It will just take a small amount of extra time.

Good luck finding a broker in the USA if this passes. Most of them are fighting this and preparing contingency plans to pack up and leave the country if it passes.



If you feel that making profits trading is somehow stealing from other traders, give up trading - not just forex, but ALL trading. Is your position that limiting my chance to make profits is good, since it limits others' losses? If so, why not call for an end to all forms of trading. Even if a specific market isn't zero sum, ALL markets have at least a few people who flush their money down the toilet as fast as possible. There can be no chance of winning if there's no chance of losing in any market and under any market conditions.



Wrong.

The math isnt the same. I love how youre trying to talk your way out of the fact that borrowing 10x as much money to trade with is not taking more risk.

It has nothing to do with "doing the math". If you trade by borrowing 100x the amount of money you use, its ridiculous and out of control.

MANY brokers force you to use 100:1, dont be ignorant.

CFTC is finally doing some sensible regulation. No one should be trading more than 10:1 -- and you are RIDICULOUS for trying to say that trading with high leverage is not riskier than trading with lower.

everyone, if you borrow 100x the money you have, this is TOO RISKY . dont listen to such nonsense from this Pharoah guy -- the math is simple, you borrow more money, you stop out faster and it is riskier, dont do it. 10:1 max!

These kinds of high leverage only benefit the market makers and brokers. ONLY. no one else.
 
I have a question I'm not sure about.

If this change takes place and 10-1 leverage is mandated, how will this affect our margin requirments?

Currently it seems the money we put up is just a deposit and we are required to maintain full margin to absorb any drawdowns, and this is understadable at such high leverage. But, in reality we arent buying anything. All Forex trades are a zero sum transaction, we buy one equity and sell anouther, and are simply responsible for any changes in the exchange rates. Unlike other markets, there is no tangible equity involved. Any money we pay for this privelage sits in out brokers account as a deposit against losses. In truth, what this limitation says is that we will soon be required to put up 1000 pips as a security deposit. Will we also be required to maintain a full margin against any losses?

This seems like a case of double jeopardy to me.
 
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