Ponzi Scheme Managed Account Question - Courtenay House Trading Group

[Gorgedd]

To all investors you should get minimum 50%+ ~ of your funds back. (since he is offering groups 4% + 7.5% p/a) he would need to get more than 50% of investors capital to keep whatever scam he has got going on.
And expect it in 1-2 years minimum.
Those who think Courtenay/Tony I is 100% need a reality check.
A good way to start is creating a whatsapp group chat with all investors and getting lawyers involved,
it would make everything alot easier for everyone and have continuous updates.

Do you have money invested with Courtenay House? Could you please back up your claims with some evidence? We would all be extremely interested...

 

[Pani959]

Do you have money invested with Courtenay House? Could you please back up your claims with some evidence? We would all be extremely interested...

With the greatest respect, RebeccaT's comments are speculative at best. If the Court document we've seen is the basis of ASIC's approach, there is nothing to indicate any time frames or any percentages.

The first part of any strategy is to determine whether, as CHCTG has indicated, the capital is intact. If the capital is intact and indeed still held by CHCTG, investors' efforts should be directed at securing its expeditious return. If the capital is no longer being held by CHCTG, that information should be conveyed to investors immediately to limit any further complications associated with this situation.

 

[Peacekeeper]

Last week I asked CHCTG to send me a current statement and they provided it immediately. I suggest we all do that. Statement matched my records. Which means they have proper records of all investments and ASIC could access that as well. Whilst CHCTG license compliance issues are being investigated, which could be a lengthy process, ASIC could come to an arrangement with CHCTG to return all investor money. This could take place under ASIC supervision. If the total money available is less than the money owed to the investors, all investors should get proportionate figures back for the time being and ASIC could continue to recover the rest for Director's assets etc..

I know that this a simplistic view and legal matters are much more complicated. However, we all are simple people and invested our hard earned savings. We need to make an effort to make ASIC understand our situation whilst they are discharging their duty as a industry watchdog.

Like many in the forum, I never had any issues with CHCTG. If ASIC offers them an opportunity to return investor funds, they may voluntarily do that, obviously under ASIC supervision whilst the accounts are frozen. This will quickly bring to the surface actual fund available against total investment. If they are cleared by ASIC after the investigation, some of us may return to invest with them.

 

[Pani959]

Last week I asked CHCTG to send me a current statement and they provided it immediately. I suggest we all do that. Statement matched my records. Which means they have proper records of all investments and ASIC could access that as well. Whilst CHCTG license compliance issues are being investigated, which could be a lengthy process, ASIC could come to an arrangement with CHCTG to return all investor money. This could take place under ASIC supervision. If the total money available is less than the money owed to the investors, all investors should get proportionate figures back for the time being and ASIC could continue to recover the rest for Director's assets etc..

I know that this a simplistic view and legal matters are much more complicated. However, we all are simple people and invested our hard earned savings. We need to make an effort to make ASIC understand our situation whilst they are discharging their duty as a industry watchdog.

Like many in the forum, I never had any issues with CHCTG. If ASIC offers them an opportunity to return investor funds, they may voluntarily do that, obviously under ASIC supervision whilst the accounts are frozen. This will quickly bring to the surface actual fund available against total investment. If they are cleared by ASIC after the investigation, some of us may return to invest with them.

My current statement also showed funds as expected, Peacekeeper. Whatever compliance breach may have occurred in CHCTG's business practices, ASIC has choices. I have no doubt that had ASIC not intervened, our funds could have been requested IAW existing agreements.

 

[Ready]

G'day All,

I too, am caught up in this mess.

I agree we can all hope for the best, but believe we all know that we need to plan for the worst - together.

I also agree that a good way to start is by creating a private group chat with all investors. Whatsapp or something similar.

Kind Regards

 

[Guacamayo]

I recently spoke with an investigator involved with this case and was told that ASIC would be issuing more information in the coming 2 - 3 weeks (in other words, before the end of May).

If any Whatsapp group is created, please post all the details in this thread instead of private messaging each other the details.

 

[Pharaoh]

Without a shred of evidence Pharaoh & Toldyaso have been quick to call this a "ponzi scheme". Where is your evidence?
Also you both seem to think a 7.5% return is an impossible task. There are traders out there who can double that.
I think you both may end up with egg on your face.

Another "true believer" in free money. Usually people make comments like this in Ponzi scheme threads before the regulators step in.

Although it is impossible to prove a Ponzi scheme until the regulators step in or it collapses, the warning signs are painfully obvious to anyone who bothers to look.

For example, 7+% per month, each and every month without regards to market conditions is a certain sign of one of 2 things:

1. Person/company making the offer is deluded by some short term successes.
2. Person/company making the offer is lying and intends to separate you from your money.

In case 2, if payments are made regularly and on time, it's a Ponzi. If you want to learn more about how easy these scams are to spot, I've written an article on the subject here:

Ponzi Schemes and HYIPs - Free Money Traps

Don't believe me? Call up any regulator and ask if they can recommend a company that offers 7% per month without fail. Then call a licensed accountant. Finally call the fraud department at your local police department. If you want the laughter you get to be twice as loud, tell them that "newbie24" says it's possible to make twice that.

Let's do a little math. I'll sign up for one of Newbie24's 14% per month accounts on January 1st. If I invest $100, and re-invest the interest, at the end of 12 months, I've got $500 - guaranteed without regard to market conditions.

After 4 years, I'd have $312,500. At the end of 8 years, I'd have $39,062,500
This raises 2 questions:

1. Has anyone heard of someone collecting this kind of return each and every month without fail for 8 years? Anyone seen someone invest $100 in a plan for a new baby and have the kid turn into a multi-millionaire by age 8?

2. If you accept the premise that this kind of return is possible, I assume you would also accept the premise that the President of the United States would be able to apply the power of the US government to determine in advance several such programs which are legitimate. Why didn't Bill Clinton, George Bush (second one - first was only in for 4 years) or Barrack Obama insert 1 million dollars into such an investment upon taking office? My $100 investment would have yielded over $39 million. A 1 million dollar investment would have added 4 more zeros to that. $390,000,000,000 - That's 390 billion - quite a nice surprise to drop into the treasury when leaving office. Heck, if a President was sure of this, why not invest 1 Billion. That would mean the surprise at the end of 8 years in office would be over 390 trillion dollars. The deficit would be ended. Taxes would be ended. The US would own the world.

Wake up. There are good investments for those who are willing to dig for them. There is no such thing as unlimited free money. The greater the return, the larger the risk. Anyone telling you otherwise is either terribly uninformed or doesn't care what happens to you as long as you put your money in first.

 

[Goliath]

Obviously at this point, everyone needs to disregard "pharoah's" comments. He is clearly totally unhelpful. Evidently he's American and the rules are different in the US. I would like to highlight to all the Courtenay House clients the desperate need to ensure that ASIC are aware that there are human beings involved in this situation. And their charter to the Australian people, Australian tax payers, that their number one priority is the client. Regardless of any of Courtenay house wrongdoing, their behaviour and attitude to the individuals in this situation is abhorrent. We are in fact the people who are facing hardship due to their actions. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. Let's make sure that ASIC know that the Australian people won't stand for behaviour like this from the public service. They are here to serve us, the consumer against wrongdoing and yet will not communicate with us. No one deserves to suffer because an organisation who is there to protect investors will not take action in the consumers favour. I will stand in front of the ASIC office in Sydney and protest if that's what it takes. Enough of the rhetoric and let's see some action!

 

[Abc321]

Hey all, we too have invested heavily into CHCTG. We have just written to ASIC to request a release of funds.
If anyone knows how to create a private "investor only" thread on some kind of app I'd be interested to know. I believe what's app is the best or a closed group Facebook page. Tony's lawyers are not doing the investors any favours as they haven't done the right thing and sent us an email to confirm funds are safe etc and asic are also keeping us in the dark. I really believe we need to look at a class action to have our funds released. Asic can still investigate but our funds need to be released. Please get in touch we need to get the ball rolling

 

[JAM90]

I actually took the time to read the article Pharoah wrote and it is unfortunately very convincing and sounds very accurate, though we still need to remain positive that we haven't become victims of a ponzi scheme and that CHCTG are in fact genuine but only time will tell.