Armadamarkets SCAM - Regular execution issues, account wiped out

tobeone

Private, 1st Class
Messages
67
Hello, I'm a trader, programmer, EA developer and fund manager, I had live accounts with several brokers before opening an account with Armadamarkets based on information I've got from internet (fast execution, DMA, LMAX liquidity, fastest broker in the world, best broker for news trading etc.)
I had regular order execution issues since the begining. When I first wrote about these issues they said it was their Liquidity Provider's error and as a problem was from their side, they have refunded me losses 2 times - a few hundreds of dollars in total.
I thought they were honest at least and I continued trading avoiding the most sensible pairs however (GBPUSD and USDJPY).

Here is an exemple of our conversation:

ბესო თურმანაული <bsovevo@gmail.com>
5 juin

à Armada
Hello I have a classic account with you: 2088525324
before 12:15 GMT (ADP Employment Change (May)) I opened two pending orders on USDJPY.
BUYSTOP:11125305 and SELLSTOP:11125300
SELLSTOP:11125300 didn't appear nor on the chart nor in the terminal (open orders) window.
I saw later in the history that It did close just too fast (it seems to me so).
I had a 5 pip SL on both orders but on SELLSTOP one I lost around 15 pips.(158 dollars).
I am a programmer too and after analyzing what happened it makes me very unhappy.

BECAUSE the same operations were done on a classic account: 2088529284
with exactly the same robot, with exactly the same parameters.
RESULTS: SELL: 11125299 and SELL: 11126033

I'am still satisfied by your service and I kindly ask you, please, do something to help me fix the loss and prevent it in the future. I had breakeven at 5 pips, 10 pip Trailing stop, SELLSTOP:11125300 was opened during less than 1 minute, as showed in the history. the price didn't move in this period from 93.44 to 93.54, this move doesn't appear on the chart at least. You can verify that.

Thanks for understanding.
With respect, B.SO
Armada Markets Support <support@armadamarkets.com>
5 juin

à moi
Good day,

Our investigation shows that stop-loss was caused on Classic account by one of our LP-s. As the problem was from our side, we have refunded the loss. Please let us always know if you notice something irregular.
Please See USDJPY refund: USDJPY Refund 2.JPG and GBPUSD refund: GBPUSD Refund 1.JPG

The main problem was that positions were closing in loss when price was moving towards opposite direction and/or BUYSTOP/SELLSTOP orders were opening well above/below the high/low of the day. I had a classic account with fixed spreads.
As Armadamarkets indicates on it's website fixed spreads can be raised during extreme market conditions or overnight trading sessions depending on liquidity: Spreads can be raisen.JPG

In fact I could verify how liquidity really affected trade execution performance because I was trading several accounts with exactly the same orders exactly the same time, price and other parameters. What I saw afterwards was shocking for me...
There's a story:
I was trading AUDUSD (usually a stable pair) with 10% risk per position and I lost two positions: 20% loss on investors' accounts.
There are trades from (ALFA) 15000 EUR account losing about 3000 EURO: Bautiaa Loss.JPG
It was a relatively newly opened account compared to another (BETA) investor's account with 4343 USD Balance.
On both (ALFA and BETA) accounts there were exatcly the same pending orders with same parameters.
As I mentioned, ALFA account lost 20% of it's balance and had no slippage at all.
on BETA account there were huge slippages on both orders. BUYSTOP order filled 5 pips above the high of the day.
Both SL triggered with 9 (BUYSTOP) and 28 (SELLSTOP) pips slippage and we're talking about the same trades
with the same broker just on different accounts.
Here you can see BETA trades: George Loss.JPG
Account's loss exceeded account's balance.
There is one important quote from Armadamarkets chat:
[18:28:39] 62.212.48.86: between two
[18:28:46] 62.212.48.86: client's orders
[18:28:49] 62.212.48.86: at the same price
[18:28:56] 62.212.48.86: which's executed first
[18:29:33] 62.212.48.86: maybe it's an average price for all orders at a X price
[18:29:34] Armada Markets Support: Do you mean, if you set sl or tp?
[18:29:51] 62.212.48.86: Let's say this
[18:30:09] 62.212.48.86: A client set a BUYSTOP order at 1.333
[18:30:20] 62.212.48.86: B client set a BUYSTOP order at 1.333 too
[18:30:45] 62.212.48.86: which order will be executed with less slippage if there's not anough sellers for them?
[18:31:21] 62.212.48.86: will both have same slippage?
[18:31:30] 62.212.48.86: or different
[18:32:24] Armada Markets Support: First order gets executed first, then the second if they both have the same price.
We can now compare these two orders based on all the information we have,
and this is what I wrote to Armadamarkets:
Besarion Turmanauli <bsovevo@gmail.com>
11 oct. (Il y a 4 jours)
à Armada


There is another too important question for me:
It's about same trades at the same time on two different accounts and it's very technical:

Metatrader A/N: 2088532598
Account owner: BETA
Order: 15414985 * (CAME FIRST!)
Lotsize: 6.52
Open Price: 0.9426 (Slippage is 16 pips compared to order below)
Stop Loss at: 0.9451 (-25 pips)
Stopped at: 0.9478 (-52 pips) (Slippage is 26 pips compared to order below)
Total loss is 42 pips bigger compared to order below

Metatrader A/N: 2088529284
Account owner: ALFA
Order: 15414987 *
Lotsize: 18.23
Open Price: 0.9442
Stop Loss at: 0.9451 (-9 pips)
Stopped at: 0.9452 (-10 pips) (No slippage at all)

I see NO logic beyond this and please, refund Order #15414985.
This is last and final thing I ask you.
Here's what they answered:
Armada Markets Support
14 oct. (Il y a 1 jour)
à moi

Good day, there were no technical errors regarding this order(s), therefore we cannot compensate that. Your 6.52 lot order was executed on the real market exactly with the same price [ME: same price as indicated in MT4 statement], as you can see from our own statement in the attachment.
I can attach more that 5 files to this post, I'll add them to the folowing post. in fact the statemnt is a square picture showing a price where SELLSTOP #15414985 stopped out.
When I tried to get more serious answer I got this:
Armada Markets Support
12:16 (Il y a 10 heures)
à moi

Hello, we provide only execution, we do not intervene into trading process, there were no technical errors and those trades were accepted and filled by other counter-parts and therefore we cannot compensate anything.
Please help me get a refund for (BETA) account as it was wiped out for no reason (I think, extreme market conditions must be extreme market conditions for every account) and when all other accounts traded at normal prices this account's balance became negative in seconds...
 

safrty

Private
Messages
24
Hello , I am person who opened an account in Armadamarkets and I'm thinking that Armadamarkets SCAMMED my account #2088532598.
2 times there were problems on my account: first time they refunded money and the second time they took all the money plus some more...
I am not a professional trader, I am a normal man who don't know any of this technical words and etc. I know only one thing: somehow I lost all my deposit + for this nearly one week I nearly received a nervous shock, I already learned some lessons from trading at Forex. If they really scammed me, they should return my lost money and be punished, so that such kind of thing never happens to anybody (no one is not so strong, someone can also lose more than 50 000 and have a heart attack for armadas fault )
From my side I can add only 2 mails which I sent to armada + their answers: short mails not even explaining why they took everything (all money)
**********************

First version

From: Armada Markets Support [mailto:support@armadamarkets.com]
Sent: Friday, July 05, 2013 4:04 PM
To: **************
Cc: support@armadamarkets.com
Subject: Re: Execution error on trade
Good day, we have refunded that loss and made a deposit, as this trade was closed by take-profit.

Best regards,
Andres
Client Support
Armada Markets

On 05.07.2013 15:18, ME wrote:
Dear Sir/madam
Hello ,
I am *********** ,my live account number is 2088532598 in Armada , I am investor of *********** and my account is connected to his account, I had same exe same execution error on trade #12223646.
Please, refund me the loss if possible, Thank you.

Sincerely , ***********

Second version

From: Armada Markets Support [mailto:support@armadamarkets.com]
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 11:28 AM
To: ************
Cc: support@armadamarkets.com
Subject: Re: Execution error
Hello, there were no technical error, therefore Armada is not obligated to compensate general trades which have been successfully accepted and executed with real market prices.

Best regards,

Andres
Client Support
Armada Markets
ARMADA MARKETS | ECN Broker | Forex Trading | Partner of LMAX

On 10.10.2013 16:32, ME wrote:
Dear Sir/madam
Hello ,
I am Giorgi Merabishvili ,my live account number is 2088532598 in Armada , I am investor of ********** and my account is connected to his account, I had same execution error on trade # 15415019 and 15414985 . By this technical error (-4759.6$) I lost all amount 4343 $ and now in minus more 416.06 $ .

Please, refund me the loss if possible, Thank you.

Sincerely , ********
 

Andrew_arm

ArmadaMarkets Representative
Messages
38
Response from Armada

One of the policies of Armada Markets is not to discuss or share client details publicly.

If a trader chooses to trade economic news releases then he does this at his own risk. At the release of economic data currency rates often change hundreds of times within a second. There is no guarantee that the first order that arrives at the market gets always a better rate than the rest of the orders. Trading the news is extremely speculative and there are no certainties. Therefore we see that some of our professional traders enter the market not at the exact moment of the news release but a few seconds later when the liquidity is deeper.

Slippage depends on market conditions and we do not have the power to limit slippage dynamics or cover excessive slippage with our own capital as this is not how the real markets work. Every trader must clearly understand what risks are associated with news trading. Around the world there are no liquidity providers who would guarantee us that the slippage that our traders get would be within certain boundaries. Also, there are no liquidity providers out there who would guarantee that orders that arrive at the same time get executed at the same rate or that the first order would always get a better rate. This would be a perfect environment that unfortunately does not exist in reality.

As a transparent company we have already shared specific execution details with you and have exchanged multiple emails with you on how the real markets work during the news releases. Thank you.
 

tobeone

Private, 1st Class
Messages
67
Thanks for your reply.

I'm talking about another person's account and my objective is to defend interests of traders who might suffer in future.
Herewith I'll make sure I understand your opinion as well.

First of all I dislike any trials of generalization and trivialization I saw in your post because it may hide real problems and therefore prevent us to find real solutions, I think.
You said in your post that:
At the release of economic data currency rates often change hundreds of times within a second.
and also:
There is no guarantee that the first order that arrives at the market gets always a better rate than the rest of the orders
Whathever the trade frequency was LMAX ASK price had to jump from somewhere below 0.9452 to 0.9478 (making minimum 27 pips gap) and than jump back 26 pips at exactly 0.9452 to fill the next SL order with zero slippage. SL[0.9451] of SELLSTOP#15414985 triggered at 0.9478 and SL[0.9451] of SELLSTOP#15414987 triggered at 0.9452.
The LMAX ASK tick by tick (trade by trade) chart you (Armadamarkets) provided shows that ASK Price really hit 0.9477 (not 0.9478 anyway) and no matter how quickly it came back, it didn't even approach 0.9452 price level during quite some time (not even visible on the chart).
It means that SL[0.9451] of SELLSTOP#15414987 triggered at 0.9452 before the price reached 0.9477 level and after that SL[0.9451] of SELLSTOP#15414985 (FIRST ORDER) triggered at 0.9478 (without ASK price hitting the level).
It's only one pip difference but it shows the nature of the whole problem, for some accounts orders get filled on prices where there are no trading activities.
Here's the screenshot of LMAX ASK tick by tick price from Armadamarkets: audusd tick chart ASK LMAX.jpg
I suggest that either you (Armadamarkets) don't understand why exactly this happens and you need to investigate and fix it or it's what you do deliberately. In both cases you have to acknowledge your errors and refund the damage suffered by your clients.
Let me show you again what your chat operator said to me:
[18:32:24] Armada Markets Support : First order gets executed first, then the second if they both have the same price.
and I have a chat transcript from LMAX saying the same:
Dear Besarion,
Thank you for contacting us.
Please find below the chat script you requested:
11:18:45) Balazs: Hi there! How can I help?
(11:18:52) Visitor: Hello
(11:19:18) Visitor: On your website there's a text line
(11:19:35) Visitor: LMAX: precise, consistent, reliable trade execution
(11:19:56) Visitor: which sound very interesting so I wanted to have more precise information
(11:19:58) Visitor: if it's possible
(11:20:13) Balazs: Ok
(11:20:21) Balazs: Please specify your question?
(11:20:43) Visitor: Let's take a scenario where there are two BUYSTOP orders at a 1.333 price level
(11:21:04) Visitor: Which order gets executed first
(11:21:04) Visitor: ?
(11:22:24) Balazs: The order execution speed depend on your location, your internet connection
(11:22:56) Balazs: I can confirm that the average latency for a trade to be executed when it arrive to our Exchange is 3 milliseconds.
(11:23:47) Balazs: We are an Exchange a neutral and transparent trading venue.
(11:23:59) Visitor: yes, it's very fast, in execution I mean which pending order gets filled first, if orders are already opened
(11:25:49) Balazs: Just a second please I double check it with my colleague.
(11:26:32) Visitor: Thanks
(11:28:50) Balazs: The orders that arrive first to our Exchange get filled first.
(11:28:56) Balazs: first in first out.
(11:29:25) Visitor: Right, exellent, If I understand you well
(11:29:56) Balazs: I can give you a link to our legal documents:
(11:30:17) Visitor: if there are not enough sellers for the two orders, first order gets filled at a better price and second order - at a same or worst price?
(11:30:32) Balazs: Apply For an LMAX Professional Account|LMAX Professional
(11:30:47) Balazs: In the text on this web stie you will find PDF files.
(11:30:56) Balazs: about the order execution policy ect.
(11:31:18) Visitor: Thanks, I really need to have answer on this very question as fast as possible
(11:31:33) Balazs: ok
(11:31:47) Balazs: The orders are always get filled at the best available price.
(11:32:04) Balazs: that mens that the first order in your example gets filled at the price.
(11:33:00) Balazs: and then the second one ( if there is not enough volumes) gets filled at the next best price available.
(11:33:23) Visitor: Thank you! I'll read the documents you mentioned too later
(11:33:28) Visitor: Have a nice day!
(11:33:56) Balazs: Have a nice day.
(11:34:22) Visitor: Can I have a transcript of this chat?
(11:35:06) Balazs: Yes you can.
(11:35:21) Balazs: please provide me with a mail addres where I can send it.
(11:35:25) Balazs: address*
 

Pharaoh

Colonel
Messages
19,840
It usually works better if the person with the issue is the one who files the complaint.
 

Andrew_arm

ArmadaMarkets Representative
Messages
38
Response from Armada

Orders are executed at market rates and during the news releases market rates change a great number of times within a single second.

Our liquidity pool consists of 18 liquidity providers currently, so the liquidity provider that you were referring to is not our only liquidity provider.

We have already provided you the execution reports as proofs.

Trading the news is one of the riskiest strategies and during extreme news-driven market volatility slippage figures are often higher or much higher than usual. This is common knowledge among traders and one of the reasons why most traders avoid news-trading.

This is our final message on this matter and we kindly ask to consider the risks that are associated with news-trading strategy. Thank you.
 

Master Yoda

Captain
Messages
2,929
Orders are executed at market rates and during the news releases market rates change a great number of times within a single second.

Our liquidity pool consists of 18 liquidity providers currently, so the liquidity provider that you were referring to is not our only liquidity provider.

We have already provided you the execution reports as proofs.

Trading the news is one of the riskiest strategies and during extreme news-driven market volatility slippage figures are often higher or much higher than usual. This is common knowledge among traders and one of the reasons why most traders avoid news-trading.

This is our final message on this matter and we kindly ask to consider the risks that are associated with news-trading strategy. Thank you.
Are you using VDP?

Maybe the issue is that your anti-scalping system is too harsh? did you provide the trader the quotes history report by tick?
 

tobeone

Private, 1st Class
Messages
67
This is our final message on this matter and we kindly ask to consider the risks that are associated with news-trading strategy. Thank you.
I understand risks associated with it and I'm doing this for almost a year now. What I'm talking about is something completely different than a slippage and I always accepted slippage as normal and tried to reduce it by a variety of risk-reduction methods because I'm a programmer also and I have a clear understanding of how the trading software and liquidity providers work. You were calling yourself as a probably best broker for news trading, this is why I chosen your platform. And what risk are you talking about, that on SAME TRADES one account can lose 20% and the second account - 110%?

Our liquidity pool consists of 18 liquidity providers currently, so the liquidity provider that you were referring to is not our only liquidity provider.
The way you connect these 18 liquidity providers is, I think, completely weird and useless, because there is a complete imbalance between your client's accounts, complete instability and they get completely different prices from each other, when situation in the market changes you handle it incorrectly and illogicaly.

I am talking about BUYSTOP and SELLSTOP orders on two accounts.
This means 6 orders on each account: (Stop order (Open), Limit Order (TP), Stop Order (SL) for BUYSTOP and same for SELLSTOP).
ALL THE FOUR INDEPENDENT ORDERS with different prices on BETA account (no TP's hit) were filled on much worse prices (ALL OF THEM!) than the 4 analogical orders on ALFA account, is this an accident?

I can provide data from four more Armadamarkets Classic accounts with SAME ORDERS losing about 20% - 25% each,
this accounts for 16 more orders opening and closing in normal price ranges: 20 orders in total - talk about market depth.
 
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