Market Traders Institute MTI / Next Step Financial

fxblasa

Recruit
Messages
1
The following is my personal opinion only & readers are advised to make their own independent research.

I have been with Market Traders Institute (MTI) / Next Step Financial for about a year. I fully second the comprehensive comments from Pavel Rombakh dated 21st Sept 2013 and most of the other comments I have read on this site. If only I had seen these comments a year ago before I joined.

The following is lengthy, but it should serve as a very serious warning to anyone considering parting with their money with this company. Buyers beware.

Following is the supportive evidence that MTI in my opinion is a disreputable company & their claims are a scam:

Refund Policy – a lot can be learnt about the company from their policy on this:

1. Jared Martinez (FX Chief) & Josh Martinez (FX Pathfinder) claim to be amazingly successful traders. They claim that everyone can master their skills & that their systems work very well. I would therefore expect that hardly need the income generated from the training they sell & that they would be ready to stand behind their product & rhetoric.

2. One would therefore expect that in the rare event that someone would want a refund, particularly when the product has not been used or has not performed according to the way it has been promoted, there would be no problem in getting a refund.

3. It takes time to realise that MTI are not what they make themselves out to be. A one year charting subscription which is included in the basic training package – the Ultimate Traders Package. After this first year subscription to their charting software costs something like $200 a month. Early on MTI offers a renewal package for 2 years charting software for $2,000. What a bargain. Before the 2 year period started I came to realise that MTI are not at all what they make themselves out to be. I requested that they refund at the least the payment for the charting subscription which had not yet begun. It took 4 weeks, many emails & phone calls & 3 levels of representatives to say that they offer no refunds but they were willing to offer other products for the same price as a special offer because I was so upset.

4. To join MTI one must first purchase the Ultimate Traders Package which is now listed on their site at $6,995. MTI gives a money back guarantee. Do not dream of being able to satisfy their conditions for this, these are onerous. You are given a 1 month money back guarantee which they are happy to extend to 3 months. To be eligible for the money back guarantee one must complete 16 modules plus tests along the way for each module & score at least 70%. Some of these modules are several hours long. One also must complete mentoring sessions held twice a week for 16 weeks each about 3 hours long. One also must join a full 2 day course, held monthly. This can be done online but one needs to register beforehand & join the live course. One would not typically join the 2 day course unless they have gone through all the other 16 modules of training etc. All this is not so clear beforehand. Once somebody has completed all this it is going to take time to realise it does not work so well, & that what one makes in a trade can easily be lost in the next. The average student is likely to think they need more help or practice. I do not think it is that easy for many to get through all this even in 3 months, especially if holding down another job & to realise that it does not work for them & probably not for most people.

5. What if you start the course & begin to realise it is not for you? What if you feel that the course has not lived up to your expectations? Well too bad. MTI will say they have had to invest many hours in you & they cannot refund you unless you complete the course & all the requirements in point 4 to prove you have really given it a chance. The fact is MTI does not invest anything in you at all during training. Everything is online & I had no contact with MTI or its representatives at all during the training period.

6. MTI loves & cares for you so much that they want to keep your money as a souvenir of your contact with them.

7. Once you have invested all this money in their basic product the Ultimate Traders Package & are surprised to find that you are going backwards you will be able to benefit from some of their 10 other products, average cost for each is about $2,500. One of these 10 or so courses is the Mastery course which for a mere $10,995. That is a product suite of over approximately $35,000 all up, on top of your Ultimate Traders Package for $6,995. There is more: MTI keep on bringing out new products all the time. During my year with MTI the System of the Month course & the Art of Yen courses were added to their suite. Would anyone spend $6,995 with a company if they would realise there are another 35K of products waiting for them? Does this not show that the Ultimate Traders Package, which promised the road to financial independence & outstanding results is not likely to bring this type of result & one will need to keep investing more money on more courses to educate oneself further? Does this sound like people who are very successful at trading & who genuinely want to help others & give back to the community as MTI claims it is?

8. There is no refund available on any of MTI’s systems because MTI deems these to be education. These systems are mostly black boxes which use some type of moving average crossovers as signals for when to buy or sell. There is little if any education in these & these systems are useless once one will stop the subscription to MTI’s charting package. Despite this and the disastrous results of their System of the Month FX180 JPY system, there is no refund available. More on this great product later.

Rating the products:

9. Ultimate Traders Package: I do not believe that there is anything in this product that is not readily available elsewhere for free or at a much lower price. It appears to be designed mostly for someone who knows nothing about FX & is very basic. This training includes trends, support & resistance, Fibonacci, retracements, consolidations, head & shoulders (which they call a king’s crown) all bread & butter stuff in the world of FX.

10. When one completes this Ultimate Traders Package course, MTI will have you believe that they are fully equipped to go out & make money after some paper trading practice. The student is in fact fully equipped to be part of the 90% dumb money that lose in the FX. I made hundreds of pips on 1 trade in a few hours only to give it all back & more over time.

11. A general overview on the current 10 additional MTI products based on the few that I purchased & from what I have heard from MTI’s many promotions of their products:

o As above, MTI calls these products education: They encourage followers to continue their education. These systems have little to do with education. They are black box systems which basically say buy when indicators cross each other, or the price is above or below the indicator, plus throw in an RSI or whatever. The user has no idea what indicator / moving average is being used or the settings applied. The Ultimate Traders Package has little relevance to these systems & courses, most of which are about trading an indicator.

o How many systems does one need to trade successfully? There are systems that come with Ultimate Traders Package, several systems with each of their products but which can only be applied to specific currencies, so you need a different system for each currency. For example:

 3 products - The Dollar Index Product which trades the US basket of currencies & the Art of Yen product which trades the Yen basket of currencies. Are these so different that the same moving average type indicators will not work on each other. True every currency pair have different Daily Average Trading Ranges & different characteristics, but so do the currencies within each basket, be it US or Japanese pairs. I do not believe that the moving average type indicators used in these systems will not work equally for both baskets. On top of this the System of the month product has a system – FX180 - for trading the EURJPY – yet another system for a Yen currency pair which only works on the EURJPY.

 Why not show the real audited trade results over extended time for all these systems & let a customer buy the two indicators that show the most consistent promise. Why so many systems all promising amazing results? This does have the look & feel that this is all for the benefit of the customer. It smells like this is a way to take customers money by creating more & more of the same & marketing this as something different.

o Some of the products have significant overlap with each other. For example the Scalping course, Day Trader Course & Dollar Index courses have common ground. The Dollar index course trades the US basket of currencies based on the US Dollar index direction. The Day Trader Course uses a similar approach for day trading. The Scalping Course has similarities to the Day Trader Course – both are short term orientated, yet are 2 separate courses. As above the Art of Yen course is similar to the Dollar index course also.

o I believe that the systems being promoted carry significant risk & I have no confidence in these: For example MTI promote their Dollar Index course showing how one can make over 400 pips every day by combining the results for all 6 -7 currency pairs traded. What MTI do not tell you is that this works if the market is trending but not if it is going sideways. The system also involves taking a position on 6 or 7 US Dollar crosses which is a significant risk. Their results that they promote are based on the 6 -7 such positions which is effectively almost the same bet 6 -7 times. This is a significant risk if it does not work out. In a choppy market you could be whipped in and out. The Art of Yen course probably carries the same shortcoming.

o MTI’s rhetoric & promotion does not match the results for the products. They show you in hind sight how a wonderfully trending move would have made money on 6 – 7 currencies.

o System of the Month product: Each month for 6 months MTI produced another system for a different currency pair. The first system was called the FX180 for trading the EURJPY. The second was called FX Night also only for one currency. The System of the Month course was promoted as one that will make hundreds of pips every day (or every week – who can remember all the rhetoric?).

 This course has the look & feel of having been developed on the fly as MTI went along.

 The first 2 systems within this course appear to be complete failures & MTI put out a second version of each – thank you to all the MTI customers for helping try out these products on their live accounts.

 MTI runs a monthly 2 - 3 hour follow up session for this product. This session is about trying different parameters for the magical moving average type indicators to see which work best & then adjusting the parameters that you have for this system. It seems the systems were still in the experimental stage. I asked the presenter of this MTI follow up course to email us the revised parameters so that we did not have to sit through 2 -3 hrs of watching him apply various options to find the one that will supposedly work better from now on. Clearly the presenter did not have enough time to try these out before the presentation. I was told that I had to sit thru the session & that they would not be emailing the revised parameters.

 The FX180 EURJPY system – the 1st of the 6 systems in the course. What a beauty. It had 400 pip target, with a 100 pip stop. The system was back tested for 6 months & had outstanding results. The system was introduced around February / March 2013. Anyone that is not a beginner in FX would realise that this system was never going to work. Yes the EURJPY had been moving up like a rocket from October 2012 but such a rate of movement was not sustainable over the long term. The longer it had been going at this rate the greater the risk that this would not continue. Well surprise surprise, the EURJPY slowed down & anyone trading the system was going to be losing sometimes 100 pips at a time. Thanks again for trying this out guys.

 Fixing these 2 systems was not as easy as just changing the parameters of 400 pip target & 100 pip stop. It must have been so bad that they had to set up a revised version for both these 2 systems.

 Given the failure of these systems one can be forgiven for not having any confidence in this product of MTI (or any of their products or in MTI itself).

 As above asking for a refund for this system which by no measure lived up to any of the promises made by MTI, & despite the fact that closing the charting subscription renders the system useless, MTI will not refund the money for these system because these so called black box systems are “education”. Is MTI hard up for cash? Are they expecting a lot of requests for refunds? Is their own trading not providing them with enough amazing income?

o The Mastery Course for $10,995 from what I understand is predominantly a 3 day course dealing with psychology, understanding what kind of trader you are, with a few extra systems thrown in. While psychology is extremely important to succeed, a system that works will provide results & confidence & reduce the need for so much time on the psychology of trading.

Analyst on Demand & weekly sessions with trade recommendations:

12. MTI provides 19 hours of support via sessions with analysts called Analyst on Demand.

o I tried to use this many times. Each session is for a few hours. Every 45 minutes they have a 15 minute break. Whenever I had a question I had to wait for hours before it might be addressed & then most often they did not get to it in that session – so too bad.
o The analysts provide email alerts & recommendations. I have tried tracking these & checking the results & to me it appeared that it was about break even at best.
o I had requested that MTI provide an online list of all the recommendations & how these had worked, so this can all be transparent. MTI did not accept this suggestion.
o Analysts often gave conflicting recommendations to what was being promoted on the weekly sessions by the bigger “gurus” & between themselves. One would be advocating selling a currency pair while the other was saying to buy it.
o In a weekly session recorded on 30th September 2013, it seems that Jose was recommending a trade on the GBPAUD, in opposition to the FX Chief who was allowing purchasers of a new product to follow his trade recommendations for 2 weeks.
o Remember that in FX it is possible for both opposing recommendation to be stopped out & unsuccessful – so you do not even have a 50/50 chance.

13. The 3 sessions held weekly on current markets:
o These have long spiels about purchasing products thankfully mostly held at the end of the session
o On occasion the whole session is taken up with a sale or product spiel
o The sessions typically go through 2 currencies by first looking at the monthly chart for a 20 year period. It often will pick the top of the range based on this. MTI have made some amazing calls with this, but it is not that simple. They have also been very wrong. Just because there is a 3rd hit on the chart in 20 years does not mean the currency is going to turn around. It could take 8 months of challenging this area before a turnaround will happen, aside from the possibility that it may break through the resistance / support. Whose to say things have not changed in 20 years? At the end of the day you really do not know much from such a call - not even the basic direction.
o The 2 currencies highlighted are usually pretty much the same bet for example the AUDJPY & NZDJPY
o At the end of the day after all the brilliance of what one has learnt in the courses, when it comes down to it, the 3 weekly sessions are all about entering on a counter trend line break. Often the presenter then shows how this would have worked the past 5 times on a currency pair – so there is no reason this should not continue forever. The only problem with this is that the more times this has happened the higher the risk it is about to reverse, you will enter & be stopped out.

MTI Support:

14. I received a “personal invitation” from the FX Chief no less, to join the Mastery Class. I wrote back that I was in the red & first wanted to see some results. I never heard back from the caring Chief again.

15. I wrote several times to my account rep that I was not doing well & I got back words of encouragement over the phone & via emails. If my stops were hit, then why not have bigger stops. So I had bigger stops - which were then taken out for bigger losses.


Faith based trading – the cult:

16. There are elements of MTI creating a little bit of a religion out of their group:
o MTI presenters always talk about believing in the product. Owing it to yourself & family. All this serves to keep people in the fold for longer.
o Jarred Martinez is called the FX Chief. He is made out to be something so amazing & it is the greatest honour to have him present. When the Chief does present on one of the 3 weekly sessions, he just flogs off one of their products. Does this make him the Chief flogger?
o Jared & Josh Martinez make themselves out to be extremely successful traders. Jared is the head of Analyst on Demand, which sends out trading alerts. Where their trading alerts? Josh has sent out a few alerts – mostly in the months when the EURJPY was shooting up like a rocket. Aside form this there were very few. One was successful & the other was wrong. If they are that good why don’t they send out trading alerts? Are they worried about something?

Conclusions:
17. I have no confidence in MTI’s credibility.
18. I believe that they make their money from selling their many products
19. I believe that they significantly exaggerate their products performances. Their verbal rhetoric does not match their contract documentation
20. I believe that they deliberately keep encouraging people not to give up, when for many this may be a very good idea
21. I do not believe that MTI has succeeded with their students more than the said average in the FX market, where it is believed that more than 90% lose or do not make any money.
 

4xjimo

Recruit
Messages
4
good read i will will pass this on, i have some issues with MTI , they have no integrity, they over promise and under deliver

4xjimo
 

JuanCarlos

Recruit
Messages
1
Couldn't agree more with what's written here. I took one of their one month trials for $500 and after 4 weeks I demanded my refund. Today I received a call from them and apparently next week they will issue my refund.

One more thing MTI did that made me very uncomfortable was their insistence in solving my problems by taking remote control of my computer. I never allowed it because I just don't do that, common sense. The most simple thing to solve and they wanted to take control of my computer right away. Rude and invasive to say the least.

I've read that they charge non agreed full quotes on credit cards and after what I lived with them I don't doubt they do, it's a good thing I used paypal to pay the $500.

As the author of the post writes, don't take our words for granted, do your own research and please be very careful with this company.
 

1wildhorse

Private, 1st Class
Messages
434
highly informative post.i sat though about 2 of their presentations(the emails basically said that they would be telling us what direction a particular pair would be going),endured about an hour of prefabricated crap where they used charts to backfit amazing results,before they went on to make their predictions-about 1 minutes worth- 1 was correct the other was horribly wrong.and all this for an amazing 'discounted' price of $7k?i think not....thanks for bringing in a more detailed view of this apparently sham company.....
 

npetit1

Recruit
Messages
3
MTI Forex

What a load of hogwash and rubbish! Although 2 years old I did the complete course in just over 2 months. Started 12th November last year and finished end January and I have two jobs! Completed all 16 lessons with a passmark in excess of 70% viewed 10 hours of analysts on demand and the Financial freedom recordings 24hours worth. I found customer service and support top notch and ALWAYS replied. Within 2 weeks of my refund request I received the full amount back on my card. I give the company 100/100. Don't believe this guy below! BTW if it wasn't for my hectic work schedule as a teacher I would have stuck with them!



The following is my personal opinion only & readers are advised to make their own independent research.

I have been with Market Traders Institute (MTI) / Next Step Financial for about a year. I fully second the comprehensive comments from Pavel Rombakh dated 21st Sept 2013 and most of the other comments I have read on this site. If only I had seen these comments a year ago before I joined.

The following is lengthy, but it should serve as a very serious warning to anyone considering parting with their money with this company. Buyers beware.

Following is the supportive evidence that MTI in my opinion is a disreputable company & their claims are a scam:

Refund Policy – a lot can be learnt about the company from their policy on this:

1. Jared Martinez (FX Chief) & Josh Martinez (FX Pathfinder) claim to be amazingly successful traders. They claim that everyone can master their skills & that their systems work very well. I would therefore expect that hardly need the income generated from the training they sell & that they would be ready to stand behind their product & rhetoric.

2. One would therefore expect that in the rare event that someone would want a refund, particularly when the product has not been used or has not performed according to the way it has been promoted, there would be no problem in getting a refund.

3. It takes time to realise that MTI are not what they make themselves out to be. A one year charting subscription which is included in the basic training package – the Ultimate Traders Package. After this first year subscription to their charting software costs something like $200 a month. Early on MTI offers a renewal package for 2 years charting software for $2,000. What a bargain. Before the 2 year period started I came to realise that MTI are not at all what they make themselves out to be. I requested that they refund at the least the payment for the charting subscription which had not yet begun. It took 4 weeks, many emails & phone calls & 3 levels of representatives to say that they offer no refunds but they were willing to offer other products for the same price as a special offer because I was so upset.

4. To join MTI one must first purchase the Ultimate Traders Package which is now listed on their site at $6,995. MTI gives a money back guarantee. Do not dream of being able to satisfy their conditions for this, these are onerous. You are given a 1 month money back guarantee which they are happy to extend to 3 months. To be eligible for the money back guarantee one must complete 16 modules plus tests along the way for each module & score at least 70%. Some of these modules are several hours long. One also must complete mentoring sessions held twice a week for 16 weeks each about 3 hours long. One also must join a full 2 day course, held monthly. This can be done online but one needs to register beforehand & join the live course. One would not typically join the 2 day course unless they have gone through all the other 16 modules of training etc. All this is not so clear beforehand. Once somebody has completed all this it is going to take time to realise it does not work so well, & that what one makes in a trade can easily be lost in the next. The average student is likely to think they need more help or practice. I do not think it is that easy for many to get through all this even in 3 months, especially if holding down another job & to realise that it does not work for them & probably not for most people.

5. What if you start the course & begin to realise it is not for you? What if you feel that the course has not lived up to your expectations? Well too bad. MTI will say they have had to invest many hours in you & they cannot refund you unless you complete the course & all the requirements in point 4 to prove you have really given it a chance. The fact is MTI does not invest anything in you at all during training. Everything is online & I had no contact with MTI or its representatives at all during the training period.

6. MTI loves & cares for you so much that they want to keep your money as a souvenir of your contact with them.

7. Once you have invested all this money in their basic product the Ultimate Traders Package & are surprised to find that you are going backwards you will be able to benefit from some of their 10 other products, average cost for each is about $2,500. One of these 10 or so courses is the Mastery course which for a mere $10,995. That is a product suite of over approximately $35,000 all up, on top of your Ultimate Traders Package for $6,995. There is more: MTI keep on bringing out new products all the time. During my year with MTI the System of the Month course & the Art of Yen courses were added to their suite. Would anyone spend $6,995 with a company if they would realise there are another 35K of products waiting for them? Does this not show that the Ultimate Traders Package, which promised the road to financial independence & outstanding results is not likely to bring this type of result & one will need to keep investing more money on more courses to educate oneself further? Does this sound like people who are very successful at trading & who genuinely want to help others & give back to the community as MTI claims it is?

8. There is no refund available on any of MTI’s systems because MTI deems these to be education. These systems are mostly black boxes which use some type of moving average crossovers as signals for when to buy or sell. There is little if any education in these & these systems are useless once one will stop the subscription to MTI’s charting package. Despite this and the disastrous results of their System of the Month FX180 JPY system, there is no refund available. More on this great product later.

Rating the products:

9. Ultimate Traders Package: I do not believe that there is anything in this product that is not readily available elsewhere for free or at a much lower price. It appears to be designed mostly for someone who knows nothing about FX & is very basic. This training includes trends, support & resistance, Fibonacci, retracements, consolidations, head & shoulders (which they call a king’s crown) all bread & butter stuff in the world of FX.

10. When one completes this Ultimate Traders Package course, MTI will have you believe that they are fully equipped to go out & make money after some paper trading practice. The student is in fact fully equipped to be part of the 90% dumb money that lose in the FX. I made hundreds of pips on 1 trade in a few hours only to give it all back & more over time.

11. A general overview on the current 10 additional MTI products based on the few that I purchased & from what I have heard from MTI’s many promotions of their products:

o As above, MTI calls these products education: They encourage followers to continue their education. These systems have little to do with education. They are black box systems which basically say buy when indicators cross each other, or the price is above or below the indicator, plus throw in an RSI or whatever. The user has no idea what indicator / moving average is being used or the settings applied. The Ultimate Traders Package has little relevance to these systems & courses, most of which are about trading an indicator.

o How many systems does one need to trade successfully? There are systems that come with Ultimate Traders Package, several systems with each of their products but which can only be applied to specific currencies, so you need a different system for each currency. For example:

 3 products - The Dollar Index Product which trades the US basket of currencies & the Art of Yen product which trades the Yen basket of currencies. Are these so different that the same moving average type indicators will not work on each other. True every currency pair have different Daily Average Trading Ranges & different characteristics, but so do the currencies within each basket, be it US or Japanese pairs. I do not believe that the moving average type indicators used in these systems will not work equally for both baskets. On top of this the System of the month product has a system – FX180 - for trading the EURJPY – yet another system for a Yen currency pair which only works on the EURJPY.

 Why not show the real audited trade results over extended time for all these systems & let a customer buy the two indicators that show the most consistent promise. Why so many systems all promising amazing results? This does have the look & feel that this is all for the benefit of the customer. It smells like this is a way to take customers money by creating more & more of the same & marketing this as something different.

o Some of the products have significant overlap with each other. For example the Scalping course, Day Trader Course & Dollar Index courses have common ground. The Dollar index course trades the US basket of currencies based on the US Dollar index direction. The Day Trader Course uses a similar approach for day trading. The Scalping Course has similarities to the Day Trader Course – both are short term orientated, yet are 2 separate courses. As above the Art of Yen course is similar to the Dollar index course also.

o I believe that the systems being promoted carry significant risk & I have no confidence in these: For example MTI promote their Dollar Index course showing how one can make over 400 pips every day by combining the results for all 6 -7 currency pairs traded. What MTI do not tell you is that this works if the market is trending but not if it is going sideways. The system also involves taking a position on 6 or 7 US Dollar crosses which is a significant risk. Their results that they promote are based on the 6 -7 such positions which is effectively almost the same bet 6 -7 times. This is a significant risk if it does not work out. In a choppy market you could be whipped in and out. The Art of Yen course probably carries the same shortcoming.

o MTI’s rhetoric & promotion does not match the results for the products. They show you in hind sight how a wonderfully trending move would have made money on 6 – 7 currencies.

o System of the Month product: Each month for 6 months MTI produced another system for a different currency pair. The first system was called the FX180 for trading the EURJPY. The second was called FX Night also only for one currency. The System of the Month course was promoted as one that will make hundreds of pips every day (or every week – who can remember all the rhetoric?).

 This course has the look & feel of having been developed on the fly as MTI went along.

 The first 2 systems within this course appear to be complete failures & MTI put out a second version of each – thank you to all the MTI customers for helping try out these products on their live accounts.

 MTI runs a monthly 2 - 3 hour follow up session for this product. This session is about trying different parameters for the magical moving average type indicators to see which work best & then adjusting the parameters that you have for this system. It seems the systems were still in the experimental stage. I asked the presenter of this MTI follow up course to email us the revised parameters so that we did not have to sit through 2 -3 hrs of watching him apply various options to find the one that will supposedly work better from now on. Clearly the presenter did not have enough time to try these out before the presentation. I was told that I had to sit thru the session & that they would not be emailing the revised parameters.

 The FX180 EURJPY system – the 1st of the 6 systems in the course. What a beauty. It had 400 pip target, with a 100 pip stop. The system was back tested for 6 months & had outstanding results. The system was introduced around February / March 2013. Anyone that is not a beginner in FX would realise that this system was never going to work. Yes the EURJPY had been moving up like a rocket from October 2012 but such a rate of movement was not sustainable over the long term. The longer it had been going at this rate the greater the risk that this would not continue. Well surprise surprise, the EURJPY slowed down & anyone trading the system was going to be losing sometimes 100 pips at a time. Thanks again for trying this out guys.

 Fixing these 2 systems was not as easy as just changing the parameters of 400 pip target & 100 pip stop. It must have been so bad that they had to set up a revised version for both these 2 systems.

 Given the failure of these systems one can be forgiven for not having any confidence in this product of MTI (or any of their products or in MTI itself).

 As above asking for a refund for this system which by no measure lived up to any of the promises made by MTI, & despite the fact that closing the charting subscription renders the system useless, MTI will not refund the money for these system because these so called black box systems are “education”. Is MTI hard up for cash? Are they expecting a lot of requests for refunds? Is their own trading not providing them with enough amazing income?

o The Mastery Course for $10,995 from what I understand is predominantly a 3 day course dealing with psychology, understanding what kind of trader you are, with a few extra systems thrown in. While psychology is extremely important to succeed, a system that works will provide results & confidence & reduce the need for so much time on the psychology of trading.

Analyst on Demand & weekly sessions with trade recommendations:

12. MTI provides 19 hours of support via sessions with analysts called Analyst on Demand.

o I tried to use this many times. Each session is for a few hours. Every 45 minutes they have a 15 minute break. Whenever I had a question I had to wait for hours before it might be addressed & then most often they did not get to it in that session – so too bad.
o The analysts provide email alerts & recommendations. I have tried tracking these & checking the results & to me it appeared that it was about break even at best.
o I had requested that MTI provide an online list of all the recommendations & how these had worked, so this can all be transparent. MTI did not accept this suggestion.
o Analysts often gave conflicting recommendations to what was being promoted on the weekly sessions by the bigger “gurus” & between themselves. One would be advocating selling a currency pair while the other was saying to buy it.
o In a weekly session recorded on 30th September 2013, it seems that Jose was recommending a trade on the GBPAUD, in opposition to the FX Chief who was allowing purchasers of a new product to follow his trade recommendations for 2 weeks.
o Remember that in FX it is possible for both opposing recommendation to be stopped out & unsuccessful – so you do not even have a 50/50 chance.

13. The 3 sessions held weekly on current markets:
o These have long spiels about purchasing products thankfully mostly held at the end of the session
o On occasion the whole session is taken up with a sale or product spiel
o The sessions typically go through 2 currencies by first looking at the monthly chart for a 20 year period. It often will pick the top of the range based on this. MTI have made some amazing calls with this, but it is not that simple. They have also been very wrong. Just because there is a 3rd hit on the chart in 20 years does not mean the currency is going to turn around. It could take 8 months of challenging this area before a turnaround will happen, aside from the possibility that it may break through the resistance / support. Whose to say things have not changed in 20 years? At the end of the day you really do not know much from such a call - not even the basic direction.
o The 2 currencies highlighted are usually pretty much the same bet for example the AUDJPY & NZDJPY
o At the end of the day after all the brilliance of what one has learnt in the courses, when it comes down to it, the 3 weekly sessions are all about entering on a counter trend line break. Often the presenter then shows how this would have worked the past 5 times on a currency pair – so there is no reason this should not continue forever. The only problem with this is that the more times this has happened the higher the risk it is about to reverse, you will enter & be stopped out.

MTI Support:

14. I received a “personal invitation” from the FX Chief no less, to join the Mastery Class. I wrote back that I was in the red & first wanted to see some results. I never heard back from the caring Chief again.

15. I wrote several times to my account rep that I was not doing well & I got back words of encouragement over the phone & via emails. If my stops were hit, then why not have bigger stops. So I had bigger stops - which were then taken out for bigger losses.


Faith based trading – the cult:

16. There are elements of MTI creating a little bit of a religion out of their group:
o MTI presenters always talk about believing in the product. Owing it to yourself & family. All this serves to keep people in the fold for longer.
o Jarred Martinez is called the FX Chief. He is made out to be something so amazing & it is the greatest honour to have him present. When the Chief does present on one of the 3 weekly sessions, he just flogs off one of their products. Does this make him the Chief flogger?
o Jared & Josh Martinez make themselves out to be extremely successful traders. Jared is the head of Analyst on Demand, which sends out trading alerts. Where their trading alerts? Josh has sent out a few alerts – mostly in the months when the EURJPY was shooting up like a rocket. Aside form this there were very few. One was successful & the other was wrong. If they are that good why don’t they send out trading alerts? Are they worried about something?

Conclusions:
17. I have no confidence in MTI’s credibility.
18. I believe that they make their money from selling their many products
19. I believe that they significantly exaggerate their products performances. Their verbal rhetoric does not match their contract documentation
20. I believe that they deliberately keep encouraging people not to give up, when for many this may be a very good idea
21. I do not believe that MTI has succeeded with their students more than the said average in the FX market, where it is believed that more than 90% lose or do not make any money.
 

VincentR

Private
Messages
10
The following is my personal opinion only & readers are advised to make their own independent research.

I have been with Market Traders Institute (MTI) / Next Step Financial for about a year. I fully second the comprehensive comments from Pavel Rombakh dated 21st Sept 2013 and most of the other comments I have read on this site. If only I had seen these comments a year ago before I joined.

The following is lengthy, but it should serve as a very serious warning to anyone considering parting with their money with this company. Buyers beware.

Following is the supportive evidence that MTI in my opinion is a disreputable company & their claims are a scam:

Refund Policy – a lot can be learnt about the company from their policy on this:

1. Jared Martinez (FX Chief) & Josh Martinez (FX Pathfinder) claim to be amazingly successful traders. They claim that everyone can master their skills & that their systems work very well. I would therefore expect that hardly need the income generated from the training they sell & that they would be ready to stand behind their product & rhetoric.

2. One would therefore expect that in the rare event that someone would want a refund, particularly when the product has not been used or has not performed according to the way it has been promoted, there would be no problem in getting a refund.

3. It takes time to realise that MTI are not what they make themselves out to be. A one year charting subscription which is included in the basic training package – the Ultimate Traders Package. After this first year subscription to their charting software costs something like $200 a month. Early on MTI offers a renewal package for 2 years charting software for $2,000. What a bargain. Before the 2 year period started I came to realise that MTI are not at all what they make themselves out to be. I requested that they refund at the least the payment for the charting subscription which had not yet begun. It took 4 weeks, many emails & phone calls & 3 levels of representatives to say that they offer no refunds but they were willing to offer other products for the same price as a special offer because I was so upset.

4. To join MTI one must first purchase the Ultimate Traders Package which is now listed on their site at $6,995. MTI gives a money back guarantee. Do not dream of being able to satisfy their conditions for this, these are onerous. You are given a 1 month money back guarantee which they are happy to extend to 3 months. To be eligible for the money back guarantee one must complete 16 modules plus tests along the way for each module & score at least 70%. Some of these modules are several hours long. One also must complete mentoring sessions held twice a week for 16 weeks each about 3 hours long. One also must join a full 2 day course, held monthly. This can be done online but one needs to register beforehand & join the live course. One would not typically join the 2 day course unless they have gone through all the other 16 modules of training etc. All this is not so clear beforehand. Once somebody has completed all this it is going to take time to realise it does not work so well, & that what one makes in a trade can easily be lost in the next. The average student is likely to think they need more help or practice. I do not think it is that easy for many to get through all this even in 3 months, especially if holding down another job & to realise that it does not work for them & probably not for most people.

5. What if you start the course & begin to realise it is not for you? What if you feel that the course has not lived up to your expectations? Well too bad. MTI will say they have had to invest many hours in you & they cannot refund you unless you complete the course & all the requirements in point 4 to prove you have really given it a chance. The fact is MTI does not invest anything in you at all during training. Everything is online & I had no contact with MTI or its representatives at all during the training period.

6. MTI loves & cares for you so much that they want to keep your money as a souvenir of your contact with them.

7. Once you have invested all this money in their basic product the Ultimate Traders Package & are surprised to find that you are going backwards you will be able to benefit from some of their 10 other products, average cost for each is about $2,500. One of these 10 or so courses is the Mastery course which for a mere $10,995. That is a product suite of over approximately $35,000 all up, on top of your Ultimate Traders Package for $6,995. There is more: MTI keep on bringing out new products all the time. During my year with MTI the System of the Month course & the Art of Yen courses were added to their suite. Would anyone spend $6,995 with a company if they would realise there are another 35K of products waiting for them? Does this not show that the Ultimate Traders Package, which promised the road to financial independence & outstanding results is not likely to bring this type of result & one will need to keep investing more money on more courses to educate oneself further? Does this sound like people who are very successful at trading & who genuinely want to help others & give back to the community as MTI claims it is?

8. There is no refund available on any of MTI’s systems because MTI deems these to be education. These systems are mostly black boxes which use some type of moving average crossovers as signals for when to buy or sell. There is little if any education in these & these systems are useless once one will stop the subscription to MTI’s charting package. Despite this and the disastrous results of their System of the Month FX180 JPY system, there is no refund available. More on this great product later.

Rating the products:

9. Ultimate Traders Package: I do not believe that there is anything in this product that is not readily available elsewhere for free or at a much lower price. It appears to be designed mostly for someone who knows nothing about FX & is very basic. This training includes trends, support & resistance, Fibonacci, retracements, consolidations, head & shoulders (which they call a king’s crown) all bread & butter stuff in the world of FX.

10. When one completes this Ultimate Traders Package course, MTI will have you believe that they are fully equipped to go out & make money after some paper trading practice. The student is in fact fully equipped to be part of the 90% dumb money that lose in the FX. I made hundreds of pips on 1 trade in a few hours only to give it all back & more over time.

11. A general overview on the current 10 additional MTI products based on the few that I purchased & from what I have heard from MTI’s many promotions of their products:

o As above, MTI calls these products education: They encourage followers to continue their education. These systems have little to do with education. They are black box systems which basically say buy when indicators cross each other, or the price is above or below the indicator, plus throw in an RSI or whatever. The user has no idea what indicator / moving average is being used or the settings applied. The Ultimate Traders Package has little relevance to these systems & courses, most of which are about trading an indicator.

o How many systems does one need to trade successfully? There are systems that come with Ultimate Traders Package, several systems with each of their products but which can only be applied to specific currencies, so you need a different system for each currency. For example:

 3 products - The Dollar Index Product which trades the US basket of currencies & the Art of Yen product which trades the Yen basket of currencies. Are these so different that the same moving average type indicators will not work on each other. True every currency pair have different Daily Average Trading Ranges & different characteristics, but so do the currencies within each basket, be it US or Japanese pairs. I do not believe that the moving average type indicators used in these systems will not work equally for both baskets. On top of this the System of the month product has a system – FX180 - for trading the EURJPY – yet another system for a Yen currency pair which only works on the EURJPY.

 Why not show the real audited trade results over extended time for all these systems & let a customer buy the two indicators that show the most consistent promise. Why so many systems all promising amazing results? This does have the look & feel that this is all for the benefit of the customer. It smells like this is a way to take customers money by creating more & more of the same & marketing this as something different.

o Some of the products have significant overlap with each other. For example the Scalping course, Day Trader Course & Dollar Index courses have common ground. The Dollar index course trades the US basket of currencies based on the US Dollar index direction. The Day Trader Course uses a similar approach for day trading. The Scalping Course has similarities to the Day Trader Course – both are short term orientated, yet are 2 separate courses. As above the Art of Yen course is similar to the Dollar index course also.

o I believe that the systems being promoted carry significant risk & I have no confidence in these: For example MTI promote their Dollar Index course showing how one can make over 400 pips every day by combining the results for all 6 -7 currency pairs traded. What MTI do not tell you is that this works if the market is trending but not if it is going sideways. The system also involves taking a position on 6 or 7 US Dollar crosses which is a significant risk. Their results that they promote are based on the 6 -7 such positions which is effectively almost the same bet 6 -7 times. This is a significant risk if it does not work out. In a choppy market you could be whipped in and out. The Art of Yen course probably carries the same shortcoming.

o MTI’s rhetoric & promotion does not match the results for the products. They show you in hind sight how a wonderfully trending move would have made money on 6 – 7 currencies.

o System of the Month product: Each month for 6 months MTI produced another system for a different currency pair. The first system was called the FX180 for trading the EURJPY. The second was called FX Night also only for one currency. The System of the Month course was promoted as one that will make hundreds of pips every day (or every week – who can remember all the rhetoric?).

 This course has the look & feel of having been developed on the fly as MTI went along.

 The first 2 systems within this course appear to be complete failures & MTI put out a second version of each – thank you to all the MTI customers for helping try out these products on their live accounts.

 MTI runs a monthly 2 - 3 hour follow up session for this product. This session is about trying different parameters for the magical moving average type indicators to see which work best & then adjusting the parameters that you have for this system. It seems the systems were still in the experimental stage. I asked the presenter of this MTI follow up course to email us the revised parameters so that we did not have to sit through 2 -3 hrs of watching him apply various options to find the one that will supposedly work better from now on. Clearly the presenter did not have enough time to try these out before the presentation. I was told that I had to sit thru the session & that they would not be emailing the revised parameters.

 The FX180 EURJPY system – the 1st of the 6 systems in the course. What a beauty. It had 400 pip target, with a 100 pip stop. The system was back tested for 6 months & had outstanding results. The system was introduced around February / March 2013. Anyone that is not a beginner in FX would realise that this system was never going to work. Yes the EURJPY had been moving up like a rocket from October 2012 but such a rate of movement was not sustainable over the long term. The longer it had been going at this rate the greater the risk that this would not continue. Well surprise surprise, the EURJPY slowed down & anyone trading the system was going to be losing sometimes 100 pips at a time. Thanks again for trying this out guys.

 Fixing these 2 systems was not as easy as just changing the parameters of 400 pip target & 100 pip stop. It must have been so bad that they had to set up a revised version for both these 2 systems.

 Given the failure of these systems one can be forgiven for not having any confidence in this product of MTI (or any of their products or in MTI itself).

 As above asking for a refund for this system which by no measure lived up to any of the promises made by MTI, & despite the fact that closing the charting subscription renders the system useless, MTI will not refund the money for these system because these so called black box systems are “education”. Is MTI hard up for cash? Are they expecting a lot of requests for refunds? Is their own trading not providing them with enough amazing income?

o The Mastery Course for $10,995 from what I understand is predominantly a 3 day course dealing with psychology, understanding what kind of trader you are, with a few extra systems thrown in. While psychology is extremely important to succeed, a system that works will provide results & confidence & reduce the need for so much time on the psychology of trading.

Analyst on Demand & weekly sessions with trade recommendations:

12. MTI provides 19 hours of support via sessions with analysts called Analyst on Demand.

o I tried to use this many times. Each session is for a few hours. Every 45 minutes they have a 15 minute break. Whenever I had a question I had to wait for hours before it might be addressed & then most often they did not get to it in that session – so too bad.
o The analysts provide email alerts & recommendations. I have tried tracking these & checking the results & to me it appeared that it was about break even at best.
o I had requested that MTI provide an online list of all the recommendations & how these had worked, so this can all be transparent. MTI did not accept this suggestion.
o Analysts often gave conflicting recommendations to what was being promoted on the weekly sessions by the bigger “gurus” & between themselves. One would be advocating selling a currency pair while the other was saying to buy it.
o In a weekly session recorded on 30th September 2013, it seems that Jose was recommending a trade on the GBPAUD, in opposition to the FX Chief who was allowing purchasers of a new product to follow his trade recommendations for 2 weeks.
o Remember that in FX it is possible for both opposing recommendation to be stopped out & unsuccessful – so you do not even have a 50/50 chance.

13. The 3 sessions held weekly on current markets:
o These have long spiels about purchasing products thankfully mostly held at the end of the session
o On occasion the whole session is taken up with a sale or product spiel
o The sessions typically go through 2 currencies by first looking at the monthly chart for a 20 year period. It often will pick the top of the range based on this. MTI have made some amazing calls with this, but it is not that simple. They have also been very wrong. Just because there is a 3rd hit on the chart in 20 years does not mean the currency is going to turn around. It could take 8 months of challenging this area before a turnaround will happen, aside from the possibility that it may break through the resistance / support. Whose to say things have not changed in 20 years? At the end of the day you really do not know much from such a call - not even the basic direction.
o The 2 currencies highlighted are usually pretty much the same bet for example the AUDJPY & NZDJPY
o At the end of the day after all the brilliance of what one has learnt in the courses, when it comes down to it, the 3 weekly sessions are all about entering on a counter trend line break. Often the presenter then shows how this would have worked the past 5 times on a currency pair – so there is no reason this should not continue forever. The only problem with this is that the more times this has happened the higher the risk it is about to reverse, you will enter & be stopped out.

MTI Support:

14. I received a “personal invitation” from the FX Chief no less, to join the Mastery Class. I wrote back that I was in the red & first wanted to see some results. I never heard back from the caring Chief again.

15. I wrote several times to my account rep that I was not doing well & I got back words of encouragement over the phone & via emails. If my stops were hit, then why not have bigger stops. So I had bigger stops - which were then taken out for bigger losses.


Faith based trading – the cult:

16. There are elements of MTI creating a little bit of a religion out of their group:
o MTI presenters always talk about believing in the product. Owing it to yourself & family. All this serves to keep people in the fold for longer.
o Jarred Martinez is called the FX Chief. He is made out to be something so amazing & it is the greatest honour to have him present. When the Chief does present on one of the 3 weekly sessions, he just flogs off one of their products. Does this make him the Chief flogger?
o Jared & Josh Martinez make themselves out to be extremely successful traders. Jared is the head of Analyst on Demand, which sends out trading alerts. Where their trading alerts? Josh has sent out a few alerts – mostly in the months when the EURJPY was shooting up like a rocket. Aside form this there were very few. One was successful & the other was wrong. If they are that good why don’t they send out trading alerts? Are they worried about something?

Conclusions:
17. I have no confidence in MTI’s credibility.
18. I believe that they make their money from selling their many products
19. I believe that they significantly exaggerate their products performances. Their verbal rhetoric does not match their contract documentation
20. I believe that they deliberately keep encouraging people not to give up, when for many this may be a very good idea
21. I do not believe that MTI has succeeded with their students more than the said average in the FX market, where it is believed that more than 90% lose or do not make any money.
Thanks.. So , so " on the nail."
You sure nailed it there .
If only I had read this a year ago.
Luckily it's only cost me $500. Odd bucks , and a big "told you SO!" from the wife - which just gave her more canon fodder in AntiFx trading arguments .
But they are still hasselling me for that 6.5gs + even after I told them within 30 days I wanted out ...
Huan Feliciano- .... "I'll wash my hands of it..." his quote to me if I wanted out with full refund. BS !
 

avan1984

Recruit
Messages
1
you guys didn't learn MTI strategy well, I am mti student, I sign up and learnt their strategy . 60 days later i tried the refund policy and i was refunded fully not a single cent short.

their credibility is good
strategy is good
cut your learning curve by 10years is true

just that you need to learn and study and practice to perfect it thats all so stop flaming mti
 
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