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GUILTY Case# 2011-011 | m4re vs www.avafx.com

Discussion in 'Guilty Verdicts' started by m4re, Feb 11, 2011.

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Based on the available evidence, do you believe that AvaFX is guilty?

Poll closed Mar 20, 2011.
  1. Guilty

    80 vote(s)
    96.4%
  2. Not Guilty

    3 vote(s)
    3.6%
  1. m4re

    m4re Recruit

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    Original FPA Traders Court Submission by m4re:

    I am submitting the case against: www.avafx.com

    My Case is: Avafx refuses to pay me my profits because they say I was trading outside the market and so violated their terms and conditions. Further they say I was trading illegally, and that is what I can not understand. How can a simple click on buy or sell make you an illegal trader. They owe me 1460€ of profit, at least they returned my deposit. I was in contact with them over their chat service and e-mail and I had to wait for a week to get my investigation findings which I will present as evidence. On their chat service they simply said that my profit will be removed, which means they don t pay out profits. I hope you can try to resolve this case at FPA, because they will not give me my profits and I really don t know what to do. Every time I ask about my withdrawal they give me their terms and conditions. To this day I have not received my profits.
    Please help.

    New thread in the Scam Alerts Folder:
    www.forexpeacearmy.com/forex-forum/scam-alerts-folder/13704-ava-fx-scam.html#post56399

    Review is submitted by m4re on 02/04/11

    The company was first contacted about the issue on 01/27/11, the last contact was on 02/09/11

    Details: 1st mail i got that was suspicious:
    Dear ,

    Thank you for trading with AvaFX.com

    Multiple trades were executed in prices outside of the market.

    In accordance with our Terms & Conditions, the P/L of those trades has been removed from your account.

    If you'd like further assistance in this matter please email us: trading-practices@avafx.com

    2nd
    Dear Mr. ,

    Thank you for the email. Our Compliance team is currently investigating your claim and we will get back to you with a full response within 24-hours.

    Regards,

    Steven Freedman

    3rd mail was the investigation findings and I will post the results as evidence:

    Dear Mr. ,

    Our Dealing room has now completed their investigation regarding the trading activities in your account (TP-722364).
    After closely analyzing your trading history a clear pattern of arbitrage was identified – where price differences were been exploited to generate illegal profits. Please review two attached graphs showing market rates Vs rates traded on Ava platform.

    Brokers like Ava offer their services to customers in good faith that the platform will be used for fair and honest trading. All professional brokers have the right to protect themselves if profits were earned outside of proper market rates - this is also covered in our customer terms and conditions document.

    I trust you understand this position and we wish you all the best with your future endeavors. If you'd like further assistance in this matter please email: trading-practices@avafx.com

    4th mail

    Dear Mr. Marko Zajec,

    The issue of trading outside the market is very clearly covered in our Terms and Conditions (see below). Ava maintains the right to investigate all trades and withhold funds if deemed outside of regular market rates. As we presented to you in the graphs in my previous email these trades were clearly opened with prices outside market rates.





    17. PROHIBITION ON ARBITRAGE AND MANIPULATION

    Internet, connectivity delays, and price feed errors sometimes create a situation where the prices displayed do not accurately reflect market rates. The concept of arbitrage and "scalping", or taking advantage of these Internet delays, cannot exist in an OTC market where the client is buying or selling directly from the market maker. AVA does not permit these practices on AVA"s platform. AVA strictly forbids any form of manipulation of its prices, execution, and platform or making transactions based on errors, omissions or misquotes on the AVA platform. AVA reserves the right to investigate and review any account AVA suspects of manipulation and withhold funds suspected of being derived from such activity. AVA reserves the right to void any transaction which it has determined to be a result of any of these practices and will have no liability to the customer whatsoever for any losses incurred.



    Regards,

    Steven Freedman

    5th mail

    Dear Marko,

    The two graphs we sent were representative of the trading strategy you were implementing. At Ava we have a large team of experienced, international dealers and the decision was unanimous that you were exploiting delays in prices for profiting. We have no doubt that any professional dealer studying your trading patterns would reach the same conclusion. We only take a decision to deduct profits if we are convinced there is a clear and intentional pattern of arbitrage. We clearly do not do this when we have a customer with only a few potential arbitrage positions.



    Regards

    There was also also a lot of chat, from which I posted one in the scam folder.

    Company representatives' emails:
    Steven Freedman<steven@avafx.com>

    Attached Files:

    1. report4..JPG
    2. Last mail.JPG
    3. AUDUSD 023004GMT+2.jpg
    4. USDJPY 153002GMT+2.jpg
    5. report.bmp

     
  2. Pharaoh

    Pharaoh Colonel

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    Were any of those trades around newstime? If not, I'd like to see how Ava explains why their offered prices varied from whatever they define as "true market prices" long enough and widely enough to allow this alleged exploitation.
     
  3. m4re

    m4re Recruit

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    Some of those trades were made around news times, but there are also others that were not. My style of trading likes a lot of volatility, so I often trade at news times, but still can not understand what is wrong with this type of trading, if they provided the price, they should pay me out.
     
  4. vincam

    vincam Sergeant

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    This is crap. I see on their graphs what they are saying but what are you supposed to do if their crappy server can't catch up for 10 seconds? There is a 10 second delay on that USDJPY trade. If I'm reading that statement correctly, this particular trade was open for 3 minutes after their server finally caught up, anything could have happened it that 3 minutes.

    This is a fundamental problem with brokers, you are allowed to news trade/scalp, but only if their servers can keep up with the market. The best way to avoid this is not to scalp/news trade in my opinion, however this particular example is ludicrous. This is a good reason to dump this broker right now.

    I place a trade on the chart displayed and then it moves in my favor ten seconds later and I'm supposed to know that this just happened because their server finally caught up to the market? I see how you could arbitrage against them with such a lag but that does not mean you are.

    Did they cancel all your trades? Some of those trades were open for 30-45 minutes. Did it take their servers that long to catch up on those too???
     
  5. m4re

    m4re Recruit

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    I know this is crap, because believe me, that if the trades would be negative, then they would not be talking about arbitrage, illegal trading and so on.

    And yes, they deleted all of my trades...
     
  6. AvaFX Support Team

    AvaFX Support Team AvaFX Representative

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    Reply to Mr. Marko Zajec

    In the case of Mr. Marko Zajec our experienced Trading Practices team found conclusive evidence of trades being opened outside market rates.

    At Ava we only ever reach a decision to deduct funds if there is conclusive and recurring evidence that a customer is abusing our Terms and Conditions. Our Support department also sent Mr. Zajec detailed graphs showing how the customer was repeatedly opening positions outside market rates.

    Regards,
    Ava Customer Support Team
     
  7. vincam

    vincam Sergeant

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    Marko were those the only two examples they gave you? Those two you posted on here?
     
  8. m4re

    m4re Recruit

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    Yes, those two were the only ones.
    So what happens now, they seem very unwilling to give anything back..
    Terms and conditions they say, and that I was opening positions outside the market. How am I suppose to know when they have prices outside of the market, do I have call every time I take a position? "Hey , sorry, can I open the position or is the price outside of the market"??

    As I know this should never happen to a broker...
     
  9. vincam

    vincam Sergeant

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    Okay so you sent him two examples and used that as justification to cancel months worth of trades? Some of which could not possibly have been used to exploit your slow server?

    How is someone to know they are "outside the market"? It is very convenient for you as the broker to run your server consistently behind the market so that you can claim later that trades were done exploiting that.

    That USDJPY trade supplied as an example is 10 seconds "behind the market" from your graph, is your system typically that slow? That is crazy slow and an easy trap to set for a trader. I make a trade and then after 10 seconds I see it moves in my favor and close it, you will call "outside the market" on me? That is ridiculous. I have watched multiple brokers all running at the same time and never seen such a lag and I can only assume your server is always that slow. If that is the case Ava is a bad place to be as you will always have this excuse to not only cancel the suspect trades but ALL my trades. Not a good place to be Ava.
     
  10. m4re

    m4re Recruit

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    Hi, what happens next because there is almost a month since I have filled this case, and it seems AVA has no intention to pay me my profits?
     

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