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NOT GUILTY Case# 2011-010 | babadan vs www.forex-swiss.com

Discussion in 'Not Guilty Verdicts' started by babadan, Feb 7, 2011.

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Based on the available evidence, do you believe that Forex-Swiss is guilty?

Poll closed Mar 20, 2011.
  1. Guilty

    23 vote(s)
    44.2%
  2. Not Guilty

    29 vote(s)
    55.8%
  1. babadan

    babadan Recruit

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    Original FPA Traders Court Submission by babadan:

    I am submitting the case against: www.forex-swiss.com/

    My Case is: I have funded my account (#4532) on 05/01/2011 with 2000 USD. I lost 993 USD with 1lot/trade, where I should have lost only 99.3 USD, if FXCH would have executed my orders with 0.1 lot size as it was set and not 1 lot lot size.

    I have encountered the following negative issues while running my FxRobot:
    On their website it's stated: 'NO TRADING RESTRICTIONS. Expert Adviser permitted. Scalper Permitted'. Based on the e-mails I have received from them, they are clearly admitting that the advertise is false. See FXCH's mail:" Unfortunately, this is the conditions of the current clearing banks that we have so far for one pips hunters. Again, this is condition of clearing banks that can support your one pip hunters activity with EA trading in standard mode only." The discussion was referring to 1lot/trade minimum, even if I have set 0.1 lot size.

    Another issue: in the contract it is not stated anywhere that there are limitations/restrictins for scalpers. So FXCH has broken the contact rules, by freezing the order size to 1 lot (0.5 lots after my complaint), despite of the fact that my orders were set for execution with 0.1 lot size.
    In consequence, the losses I have suffered we more than expected, so I demanded the refund of the money I have lost due to their restriction of 1 lot/trade instead of 0.1 lost that was set in my EA.

    They have refused to refund me the money I have lost due to higher lot size that I have set on my loosing trades.

    New thread in the Scam Alerts Folder:
    www.forexpeacearmy.com/forex-forum/scam-alerts-folder/13518-fxch-scam.html

    Review is submitted by babadan on 01/24/11

    The company was first contacted about the issue on 01/06/11, the last contact was on 01/24/11

    Details: I have sent the first mail on the 6th of Jan 2011, to notify to FXCH that my orders are executed with 1 lot/trade and not with 0.1 lot/trade as it was set in my FxRobot,. They have replied the same day saying to try once more. I did, and this time the orders were opened with 0.5 lot size, despite that I have set 0.1 lot size. I have the proof, see attached snap shot.
    I have demanded the lost money back and they have refused to do it, stating that these are the condition for pip hunters, even if this restriction is it was not stated anywhere nor on the web site, nor on the contract!!
    I have asked Live Chat person, and I had the confirmation that there are no restrictions in terms of minimum lot sizes for scalpers, see attached snap shot.
    -------------

    Please see below the mails I have exchange with them:

    Re: Money Refund
    From:
    "accounts@forex-swiss.com" <accounts@forex-swiss.com>
    View Contact
    To: Daniel Baba <daniel.baba82@yahoo.com>
    Dear Sir,

    Thank you for contacting FXCH.
    Unfortunately, this is the conditions of the current clearing bank that we have so far. Again, this is condition of clearing bank that can support your trading activity with standard mode only.

    Note: We have informed you that the clearing bank can support scalpers trading activity with EA trading in standard mode only. As you know for regular clients we have other clearing lines which support mini lots trading.
    There is nothing to add, but the fact that there are no any mistakes from our side. All response you get from us is a result of our investigation on your claim. This is the way it works and we’re just simply trying to explain you in details what was done during an investigation of your claim. Again, after we reconciled all the transactions with clearing bank we found that the trades were executed at best possible lot size at the time. There are not any mistakes.

    There is nothing to dispute, there is nothing to discuss. The transaction went through. It is done, there nothing can be changed. You submitted the order with 1 standard lot size. You had a chance not to open new positions after you have closed your first position with profit, if you were not satisfied with the lot size, but you did not, and start to continue opening new positions again and again.

    AGAIN: Transactions has been executed. The transactions went through, and there is nothing to discuss.

    REMAINDER: It is high risk market; all trades are subject to the terms and conditions of the Client Agreement accessible through our website: www.forex-swiss.com

    Best of luck on trades
    With best regards

    Technical support department
    www.forex-swiss.com
    Foreign Exchange Clearing House ltd




    On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 04:08:27 -0800 (PST), Daniel Baba wrote:
    Hello,
    I still haven't received an official answer on my request to refund the money. I remind you that I have suffered higher losses than expected due to1 lot size per trade even if I have set 0.1 lot size.
    Looking forward to getting an clear answer.

    Daniel BABA

    From: "accounts@forex-swiss.com" <accounts@forex-swiss.com>
    To:Daniel Baba <daniel.baba82@yahoo.com>
    Sent: Thu, January 13, 2011 5:42:07 PM
    Subject: Re: Money Refund

    Dear Customer,

    In order to respond to you in proper mater in details we need to reconcile all your transactions with clearing banks which may take approximately 24 hours.

    Thank you,
    FXCH technical support
    www.forex-swiss.com





    On Thu, 13 Jan 2011 07:13:09 -0800 (PST), Daniel Baba wrote:
    Hello,
    On your website you state: 'NO TRADING RESTRICTIONS. Expert Adviser permitted. Scalper Permitted'. Based on the e-mails below, you are clearly admitting that the advertise is false.
    Another issue: in the contract it is not stated anywhere that you have limitations for scalpers. So FXCH has broken the contact rules, by freezing the order size to 1 lot (0.5 lots after my complaint), despite of the fact that my orders were set for execution with 0.1 lot size.
    In consequence, the losses I have suffered we more than expected, so I demand the refund of the money I have lost due to your restriction of 1 lots/trade instead of 0.1 lost that was set in my EA.
    I have funded my account (#4532) on 05/01/2011 with 2000 USD. I lost 993 USD with 1lot/trade, where I should have lost only 99.3 USD, if FXCH would have executed my orders with 0.1 lot size as it was set.

    Therefore please return the money I have lost due "malfunctions" in the platform.
    The sum required is :993-99.3 = 893.7 USD.
    I hove the proof that orders were executed with higher lots than I have set, see attached.
    Please let me know if withdraw form is needed.
    Best Regards,
    Daniel

    From: "accounts@forex-swiss.com" <accounts@forex-swiss.com>
    To:Daniel Baba <daniel.baba82@yahoo.com>
    Sent: Thu, January 6, 2011 8:50:33 PM
    Subject: Re: I cannot set mini lots!

    Dear Sir,

    Thank you for contacting FXCH. You are one of our valuable customers and we appreciate your patience.

    Unfortunately, this is the conditions of the current clearing banks that we have so far for one pips hunters. Again, this is condition of clearing banks that can support your one pip hunters activity with EA trading in standard mode only.

    In order to close account with us, please, fill out withdrawal form.
    .
    Thank you for trading with FXCH.

    Regards,

    Jay Moor
    Accounts Department
    Foreign Exchange Clearing House ltd
    http://www.forex-swiss.com

    Prime Clearing Member of European Union Electronic Derivatives Exchange EUEDEX™
    Registered Member ID: PCM-2367



    On Thu, 6 Jan 2011 09:34:45 -0800 (PST), Daniel Baba wrote:
    I have tried once more, and I still cannot have 0.1 lots , but instead I have 0.5 lots on the open trade!!!!.
    I am quite disappointed with this.
    The price feed is different than the one from demo account!!!
    Please do not use spike anymore and accept minilots!!!
    I have proof, and I intend to go public with this since I am Forex Peace Army recruit!

    From: "accounts@forex-swiss.com" <accounts@forex-swiss.com>
    To:Daniel Baba <daniel.baba82@yahoo.com>
    Sent: Thu, January 6, 2011 7:20:14 PM
    Subject: Re: I cannot set mini lots!

    Dear Sir,

    Please, check now.

    Regards,

    Jay Moor
    Accounts Department
    Foreign Exchange Clearing House ltd
    http://www.forex-swiss.com

    Prime Clearing Member of European Union Electronic Derivatives Exchange EUEDEX™
    Registered Member ID: PCM-2367



    On Thu, 6 Jan 2011 07:26:02 -0800 (PST), Daniel Baba wrote:
    Hello,
    Why is that I cannot set mini lots?
    I have set 0.1 lots in my EA, but the trades were opened with 1 lot?????
    Why is the price feed different between demo and real account?
    Daniel

    Company representatives' emails:
    Jay Moor <accounts@forex-swiss.com>

    Attached Files:

    1. Live chat discussion.jpg
    2. Lot size manipulation FXCH.JPG

     
  2. vincam

    vincam Sergeant

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    Hello Babadan,

    A couple of questions/comments for you.

    1. Did you demo the EA on their platform prior to going live with it?

    2. Although the chat person, who probably knows little about trading, said that there were no minimum lot restrictions, there are always minimum lot restrictions on all brokers, no MT4 brokers that I know of would accept a
    .000001 lot order, I know that is not what your order was I am just pointing out that they all have a miniumum no matter what the chat person says. Have you looked through the TOS to see if there is a minimum? It would be a more reliable source than the chat person.

    3. It is odd that the platform did not reject your order when placed at .01 lots, however, I do not know how that EA was written, it is possible the code was not written to take this into account and will open at whatever the minimum order size is. This is not the brokers fault as they cannot control the functioning of your EA.

    I would be very careful with this EA on other platforms also with this issue, I never use EA's to open live trades for me personally, only demo, that way all the errors are mine.

    Have you asked them to point specifically to where in the TOS it says the minimums are 1 lot (now .5 lot)? That would be useful but even without it they are going to blame your EA I'm sure of it.
    What happens if you manually try to open a .01 lot order? It should not let you but there may be a little something there if it does, that is a broker problem, all the brokers that I have used the platform in will not allow you to open trades at below the minimum.

    It really seems like a bug in the EA to me, it should not be opening orders of improper lot sizes and if I had written it I would have made the EA immidiately close positions that somehow opened at the wrong lot sizes.
     
  3. f-man

    f-man 4Xangels Representative

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    Hi Daniel,

    In one of the emails that the Broker support sent to you, they wrote the following "...You had a chance not to open new positions after you have closed your first position with profit, if you were not satisfied with the lot size, but you did not, and start to continue opening new positions again and again."

    How many trades did you open with 1 lot? Could you submit a statement of the account, so that we have a more precise image of your case?
     
  4. AsstModerator

    AsstModerator FPA Forums and Reviews Admin

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    Forex-Swiss changed some policies and got a scam finding lifted last year. I've just emailed the contact from the Case filing and the contact from that issue to invite them in to participate.
     
  5. babadan

    babadan Recruit

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    Hello FPA,

    First of all I really appreciate your accountability and your pro-active support for my issue.

    I want to clarify some of the aspects you raised.

    I have used indeed the FxRobot on the demo account for several weeks, and the results we simply amazing - same as FPA had on real account. I did not opened manually trades thou, to check if I can have mini-lots.
    When moving to real account, the situation was totally different: price feed (against what I've been told) and fixed 1 lot/trade for my orders..
    Unfortunately, I did not receive any trading report to show you the trade history, maybe FXCH will provide it when they will be joining our discussions. I do not have access to their platform neither, since I have closed the account, following their recommendation.
    The first trade was indeed with 1 pip profit, then all the rest were losing trades.

    I have read the contract and there is no reference to minimum lots per trade.
    They state thou:"It is the customer’s responsibility to find out all necessary information about FXCH and make sure that all arrangements are discussed and clearly understood prior to any trading activity." Well, I have done that through the live chat, but it's obvious that I was incorrectly informed.

    I strongly consider a broker of being scam/low profile broker due to the following:
    a. orders executed with lot 1 lot size, even if in my EA I have set 0.1 lot size-b. price spikes on real account vs demo account. I have the proof, see attached picture in the complaint.
    c. for closing orders, 2 confirmation check boxes opened, so I have lost time and price moved against me rapidly when I tried to manually close a trade
    d. information contradictory on fxch.com site regarding the spread: in one section 1 pip fix spread is advertised, in other section 2 pips spread is mentioned
    e. live chat is available only randomly, and they totally lie- I was assured that there is no difference between real and demo account, but I am the living proof IT IS A LIE.
    f. They claim to be prime member of EUEDEX, which is a company from Moldova Republic, which is non EU country, well known for its level of corruption.
    g. Contact phone from Dominic Republic does not work.

    Gentlemen, I am well aware that it might be very difficult to get the money back, but I would still consider a great victory if the outcome of my case might protect other traders from being scammed as I was.

    Thank you for the support!

    Best Regards,

    Babadan
     
  6. vincam

    vincam Sergeant

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    I'm assuming their demo accepted your mini lot trades? Or did you trade bigger lot sizes on demo?


    Well that is nice and vague, I guess next time you'll have to get an e-mail response from some head manager there telling you the exact trade conditions next time, although I'm sure they will reserve the right to change conditions without notice...


    This still could be an EA issue, you could try to run it on a demo account with another broker that does not allow mini lots and just see what the EA does...
     
  7. AsstModerator

    AsstModerator FPA Forums and Reviews Admin

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    The contact I have at FXCH can now see the thread. I assume he'll either get in touch with Babadan or will post something here soon.

    Babadan, please post an update soon.
     
  8. babadan

    babadan Recruit

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    No answer

    Hello FPA,

    Just to update the status: I was not contacted so far by FXCH.

    Best Regards,

    Babadan
     
  9. Antny

    Antny Private

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    Well....it seems

    It seems you have properly tested the EA before running it live.

    It is obvious they failed to explain their policy.

    The fault is their's. They should change their policy statement to reflect accurately what is allowed, and refund your money.
     
  10. Teodor Jackson

    Teodor Jackson Sergeant

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    Actually it's bit weird.

    First of all - good quality EA checks against lot size allowed. It should not send any order if the lot size doesn't follow broker requirements.

    Next - the trading platform should reject undersized OrderSend(). Just like it rejects undersized manual orders.

    Next - demo accounts DON'T guarantee live account performance. Especially if it's about scalping. Just small change may produce big difference. I could give here a handful of examples.

    Next - is it Market Maker account or STP/ECN? You said you observed spikes on live while not on demo. Are you sure the demo acc is the same type as the live one?

    I agree the way they handle the issue is irritating and possibly inadequate (hard to get live chat assistance for example). Also TOS excuses.
    But on another hand I have impression you're using poorly coded scalper.

    Did you check terminal and experts log?
    You can find it in:
    [drive letter]:\Program Files\[your metatrader app name]\logs\
    and
    [drive letter]:\Program Files\[your metatrader app name]\experts\logs\

    Then look for corresponding date in the file name.

    You have to compare what order was sent (in the experts log) and what was accepted (in the terminal log).

    Does it really target one pip profit? It doesn't make sense to me...
    Where did you find the EA actually?
     

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