1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

NOT GUILTY Case# 2011-010 | babadan vs www.forex-swiss.com

Discussion in 'Not Guilty Verdicts' started by babadan, Feb 7, 2011.

?

Based on the available evidence, do you believe that Forex-Swiss is guilty?

Poll closed Mar 20, 2011.
  1. Guilty

    23 vote(s)
    44.2%
  2. Not Guilty

    29 vote(s)
    55.8%
  1. brucewhain

    brucewhain Recruit

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2010
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Abstain

    Well must say just from looking at the website this sure looks like a sleazebag broker. Tblisi!? You actually sent your money to Tblisi? (Though I wouldn't think twice about sending it to Seychelles. But there we know who we're dealing with. My account's with good ol' FSA - having been driven out of the U.S. Still the new regulation has nothing to do with sleaze, just restrictions. Was always willing to accept slight discrepancies bet. demo and live feed, and don't consider this sleazy per se, yet FXCM & FXDD are getting class-acted-upon for just that. It's the end of forex as we knew it.)

    Read the first part with the correspondence yesterday and didn't know what to think because neither side of the argument inspires confidence in the participants. Hence, I abstain.
     
  2. Viperno25

    Viperno25 Recruit

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Evidence at hand

    I have to agree with many of the earlier comments, and say that in this case I am going to have to vote not guilty. Not because looking at all of the evidence I think that this is a broker that I would even consider, but because the case as presented does not sound like it is completely the brokers fault. One of the major issues was the fact that after winning one trade with 1 lot, trading continued instead of resolving the lot size issue then and there.
    I would not be terribly surprised to see this broker in the court again in the future.
     
  3. Michaelthetree

    Michaelthetree Recruit

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Due to a lack of evidence, I'm going to withhold my vote for now.
    If you could show us tests of how the bot reacts (on demo) to another broker who only fills orders of 1 lot or higher, the picture might become clearer.
    One thing that irks me though is that you saw your first trade open a 1 lot order and continued to make trades. You should have clarified the situation straight away.
     
  4. Teodor Jackson

    Teodor Jackson Sergeant

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Messages:
    222
    Likes Received:
    1
    Babadan,

    You asked them about any restrictions/limitations, specifically minimal lot size and they said no any limitations.
    This stands clear in your chat screen capture.
    And it stays opposite to what they explained about 1 lot size later.
    At this point you're right: they didn't play fair.

    But then, while reading their response I came across this one:
    "(…)You submitted the order with 1 standard lot size. You had a chance not to open new positions after you have closed your first position with profit, if you were not satisfied with the lot size, but you did not, and start to continue opening new positions again and again"

    If this is true it simply means you knew you were trading 1 lot instead of 0.1 and was happy with it as long as it worked in your favor.
    Am I right here? How many profitable trades did you do before catching the loss?

    The broker may be the worst in the world, but you didn't provide evidence they changed your 0.1 lot into 1.
    Now I have impression you don't play fair with us about the lot size.

    Could you clarify?
     
  5. Paulo Melo

    Paulo Melo Recruit

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not first trade

    Babadan,

    It seems that you traded (with profit) a couple of times before incurring the BIG loss.
    Did you noticed that your winnings were with 1 lot instead of 0.1 lot?
    If so, why did you continue to trade with your EA?

    Does your EA open exactly 0.1 lot (and was accepted as 1 lot by the broker) or does the EA search for minimum broker's lot size (and then opened a 1 lot)?

    If you do not provide your EA details, I will vote for "not guilty", since you were aware of lot size (not your first trade) and it is probably a EA "bug".
     
  6. babadan

    babadan Recruit

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    FXCH: never to be trusted

    Hello all,

    As stated at the beginning of my case, I do consider that getting money be might be very difficult. I do have several accounts with other brokers, but it's the first time that I have encountered such a low profile and not transparent broker as FXCH. Being my first negative broker experience, I was not fully prepared to gather strong evidence (trading history, terminal logs etc.). Heads up next time..
    But I still consider that FXCH is not a reliable forex broker. Remember my steps:
    1. Purchase FXRobot scalper
    2. Run it on FXCH demo account for several weeks, with extraordinary results.
    3. Logically, I have checked next that the live account is offering the same trading conditions; first by mail:

    On Tue, 4 Jan 2011 02:21:20 -0800 (PST),
    Hello,
    I am about to transfer 2000 USD to fund my real account with FXCH, since I have very good trading results with the demo account.
    Before doing it so, could you please confirm me that the price evolution, in terms of spreads and quotation level, are the same for demo account and real account?

    Looking forward to trading with FXCH,

    Daniel

    And the response:--------------------------------------
    Dear Sir,

    Spread is same 1 pip.

    Best regards,

    Michelle Raman
    Customer Care Manager
    Forex-swiss.com, forex swiss, forexswiss 24 hour online Forex trading with No Dealing Desk
    Foreign Exchange Clearing House Ltd
    Prime Clearing Member of European Union Electronic Derivatives Exchange EUEDEX™
    Registered Member ID: PCM-2367
    --------------------------------------
    5.Then I have discussed on the phone I was assured that they operate STP and they have the same price conditions for demo and real account.
    6.This was a lie, and I have the proof, see attached that the live and demo account have different price feed--> see picture attached.
    7. When I have initiated the live account, as explained, in MT4 my trades were opened with 1 lot size, even in demo account it was possible to have mini-lots.
    The first trade was 1 pip winning. Then all were lost.
    8. After several trades (3-4) I have stopped the platform, and contacted FXCH, demanding them to verify why I cannot have 0.1 lots as was set in EA.
    9. NEXT IS THE PROOF THAT THEY MANIPULATE THE LOT SIZE: AFTER MY COMPLAIN, THEY REPLIED ME TO TRY AGAIN, AND, WITHOUT ANY MODIFICATION IN MY EA, THE TRADES WERE OPENED WITH 0.5 LOTS NOW--> how can this happen unless FXCH limits the minimum lot size???

    Anyway, I am quite happy that I have attracted the attention of so many people, which will think twice before opening an account with this so called "swiss" broker-> be careful, since I have just received a mail form a swiss professional traded which confirmed me that FXCH is not a swiss registered brokerage company.

    Bottom line, this experience has proven me that there are a lot of sharks out there, the so called brokers, who are not transparent at all with their trading conditions and are sucking money from trustable traders.

    Best Regards,

    Babadan
     

    Attached Files:

    #26 babadan, Mar 22, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2011
  7. Teodor Jackson

    Teodor Jackson Sergeant

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Messages:
    222
    Likes Received:
    1
    Babadan,

    You mixed two issues in the case:

    1) live trading conditions,
    2) wrong trade size execution.

    The two contributed to your loss but these are SEPARATE issues.

    #1 is about broker promises against the real live account trading conditions. You can open new case or apply for scam finding.
    However this one alone could NOT cause any loss.
    You can easily check it in your MT4 terminal. Just open New Order window and check for minimal lot size value available there:

    New order lot size.

    And decide: take it or not. You choose.

    #2 is about your EA and minimal lot size. THIS IS what made your loss actually. This is severe and needs to be addressed.
    I strongly recommend to contact the EA vendor about the minimal lot size issue.
    It all looks the EA has a bug there. You may run into the same problem again no matter what broker you choose.
     
    #27 Teodor Jackson, Mar 24, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2011
  8. babadan

    babadan Recruit

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2011
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello Teodor Jackson,

    I intentionally mentioned the issue with live trading conditions vs broker promises in my last post. My intention was to be sure that throughout my complains, I display the real image of this broker, despite the verdict-> which i's sure it would have been guilty, if I should had been inspired to gather hot evidence (terminal log files, trading history)--> now I know what to do next time..

    I do admit that the EA I've been using, should have blocked the trades if the lots are not the ones I've set. I have already renounced at this robot, but I could not get my money back...(see discussions here: http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/forex...r-ea-test-everyone-has-been-asking-about.html).
    Anyway, I still believe that FXCH has been not fair with the lot issue. I repeat, first trades were opened with 1 lot, then after my complaint, the trades were opened with 0.5 lots without any modification from my side on the EA settings-> for me i'ts crystal clear that this is lot manipulation.

    Conclusion: I met the worst combination possible--> bad broker, bad EA.
     
  9. Teodor Jackson

    Teodor Jackson Sergeant

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Messages:
    222
    Likes Received:
    1
    I'm afraid you may be wrong here - IMO it only proves the EA is buggy.
    You typed 0.1 but it traded 1 instead. The lowest possible lot size as you learned.
    You complained about the minimal lot size so they reduced it to 0.5.
    But it was still above 0.1. Your EA simply kept adjusting to the lowest possible value and this resulted in 0.5.
    I cannot see any manipulation here. All I can see is buggy software.

    Do you still have their terminal and live account server history files? The latter remains even if you uninstall (same apply to log files) so maybe worth trying to see if they're still there...
    We could easily verify having the history files. Not to mention logs...
     
  10. gfxtrader

    gfxtrader Recruit

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    went through the posts and..

    I checked most of the answers...including the traders.

    It is really unfortunate that both the broker and the trader is rather new. I can clearly see fault in both sides.

    Trader should hv stopped trading as soon as he saw the trades aren't executed at his desired lot size/amount. But he continued.

    On the other hand Broker should stick to their TOS, which they did not, Instead refered to the terms of the liquidity provider, which is absurd.

    Also, Now to me it seems broker is trying to take advantage of the newbie trader by not informing of the situation as soon as it occured. They did tried to warn him afterwards, which is too late.

    I would say broker should refund at least 1/2 of the lost amount back to traders account.
     

Share This Page