GUILTY Case# 2015-062 | naveen1020 vs bancdebinary.com

[ruseneca]

Initially, you asked me to show proof and when I showed, you change to something else. You talk similar to a broker.

The only thing you have proven is how your balance drops and you go busted. If you claim that they have cheated you with an offer by sending you one benefits and you receive another benefits, they upload such proof. Don't tell us what they have promised you. We don't know the true, we read only your point of view without actual proves.
Let's leave this part because you have even received bonuses which some companies cannot afford to give away to their clients, disregarding of their status - standard or VIP clients.
I am not a broker and I don't work for any binary options company BUT I do have enough experience to judge what companies can do, how can they cheat you, how they operate, how and most importnaly, why you have lost your money.And as I wrote above, it is simpler that yuo think it is. The key is in the possibilities and in the theory of probabilities. Speaking for probabilities, your chance to succeed reduces with 95% when you apply for a bonus as you must meet the wagering requirements before you can request a withdrawal. It just destracts you from the real trading and there's no such thing as "there's a chance to recover" with a bonus in your account.

Again old story.. As said, I got trapped with their stories on recovery department, VIP account.. risk free trades etc...

It actually doesn't matter now. You have decided to "hedge" your loss by applying for bonuses instead of considering other options. Once you lose, it becomes harder to recover your loss, you have limited possibilities in front of you. You should have considered other options instead of talking with some "recovery department". Every company strives to retain you as a client. Since you've made some significant loss, you shouldn't have rushed in making another deposits with the same company in the same sector.
I've never seen such a recovery plan....

Here the discussion about what they promised for VIP accounts and what he actually done.

I've already written that you've applied for a bonus on top of your deposit and it is impossible to receive several bonuses on a single deposit. So, why they should provide you with a risk-free trade when you already have a bonus in your account?! Don't come up with the reason that you had a VIP account. Do not expect millions of bonuses just because you had such. What you should expect is services which could help you in trading and make it much more convenient for you.

Read it properly, he said not deposit of 100k but account balance to be 100k (and this includes bonus). Once again you make baseless argument. Even with my current balance, it is easy to recover and just depends on broker.

You claim that recovery could be easy?! Well, you really make me laugh. Why you didn't try to recover all by yourself but instead, you applied for signals?!

You show me the screen shot, that they won't offer bonus if deposits are like 8times x $5,000 rather than a single 40k deposit(It is just other gimmick).

This is a standard practise in the industry. We cannot know whay had been offered to you just because you had never uploaded a proof that really says "yes, the company offers X% on top of the sum of all deposits". You either upload such or stop crying that you haven't received your 100-time bonus.

As said, you might have done something similar or work for that firm as you keep on referring to pointless topics. They will kill us and you keep on saying, its their right to kill us.

I've never done something similar and that's the reason I get pissed off every time I read such cases where people fondly believe in fairy tales for an imaginary recovery when they actually lost in their first try.
I am not telling that it is their right to kill every cient What I tell is that their business is built on taking clients' deposits. If you are against that, you should be against all binary options brokers, casino operators, bookmakers and thousands of companies, operating in different fields. They offer you a service and they try to convince you that they are the best. What is wrong here?!

They emptied in an hr or 2.

And the big question is who are they! The company states that you have gambled your account and noone from the company has ever offered you signals. Meantime, in their website, they claim that offer signals from Trading Central. Then you come here and open a case against Banc de Binary and you have some claims against these signals. According to your statements, this is the reason for your bankruptcy. And later on, you continue with your claims that Banc de Binary, as a company, had not granted you with enough bonuses to continue with your recovery.

What is wrong with you, Naveen?! Are they obliged to provide you with bonuses until you place your 1st withdrawal request?! Where's this statement published?! ( It is a rhetorical question )

You talk about 6k, which I made loss but not brokers, who gave wrong signals to take account balance from 125k to 3k. hmm..

...This is because you buy options blindly. If they say go to APPLE and sell but in meantime, company is about to launch a new product, you would definitely buy a put option just "because they are experts".
If you decide to follow someone and copy his/her trades, do not blame others but yourself!

 

[naveen1020]

1. Here is the sample risk free trade. I have received similar assurances from BancDebinary as well.. From this it is very clear that whatever @ruseneca mentioned is baseless as brokers provide both bonus and risk free trades.

================================
Trade Event....

This event is based on data we have obtained pertaining to huge events that will be moving the markets next week, and we have decided to give ALL of our clients the opportunity to take part in this event.

That being said, entry into this event will be separate to your trading account, whether you are a VIP client or not.
However, all trades given will be risk free which means that in the unlikely event that you are going to lose any of the trades, the lost trades will be reimbursed into your trading accounts.

Event Buy-in:
*Every $5,000 you will deposit for this event will grant you 5x risk free trades of $1,000 each

=================================

2. Also, there is a proof in below skype conversation that Chris clearly gave wrong signals and again asked me to trust him and again gave wrong signals. Emptied account.

[26/3/2015 9:42:12 PM] Chris Cooper: i know this is why i'm doing this ========>After first set of wrong signals
[26/3/2015 9:42:18 PM] Chris Cooper: i told you i'll fix it
[26/3/2015 9:42:22 PM] Chris Cooper: trust ME =======> Again gave wrong and emptied.

3. Danny is the one, who moved me to Chris.

[26/3/2015 6:57:33 PM] naveen_k: thank you Danny for your trades.. Chris gave it from you.. thanks
[26/3/2015 6:58:01 PM] Danny Goldman: Ok. so thats the best I could do for now, we still need the 10K if you want to keep going with mine

After Chris, emptied my account, Danny tried to cover as if he don't know who is Chris (however, later admitted that he know Chris). Cheater.

[27/3/2015 12:11:37 AM] Danny Goldman: I dont know who Chris is
[27/3/2015 12:11:42 AM] Danny Goldman: If you didnt trade alone
[27/3/2015 12:11:47 AM] Danny Goldman: You would have still been trading with me


4. All, Danny seems to be new to this and left lot of proofs of clearing cheating. Everyone be-careful with these BO's. Now, I am thinking most of experienced brokers might not even leave such proof and deal everything over phone. They are white collar criminals.

 

[ruseneca]

4. All, Danny seems to be new to this and left lot of proofs of clearing cheating. Everyone be-careful with these BO's. Now, I am thinking most of experienced brokers might not even leave such proof and deal everything over phone. They are white collar criminals.

That was what I've been trying to say. There's no proof that the company is somehow guilty. There are only a chat-history where someone asks you to follow his signals. He might be from Trading Central, a competitor who had hacked Skype profiles of real dealers ( or brokers ), just a fake name of a real company man. Who knows that?! We can even assume that you have faked the chat-conversation to state your point of view...how could we be sure that they are real?! Moreover, these signals do not meet a proper requirement for risk management and proper capital distribution to a single option. Desipite this fact, you decide to copy them entirely, including the volume.
If you register with a signal provider and you copy his/her deals, you will have the option to set some rules according to your balance and your risk-appetite. That is because some people have $100 in their accounts and others have $10,000. You should've been more careful while taking these options. That is why I voted that the company is not guilty

 

[AsstModerator]

That was what I've been trying to say. There's no proof that the company is somehow guilty. There are only a chat-history where someone asks you to follow his signals. He might be from Trading Central, a competitor who had hacked Skype profiles of real dealers ( or brokers ), just a fake name of a real company man. Who knows that?! We can even assume that you have faked the chat-conversation to state your point of view...how could we be sure that they are real?! Moreover, these signals do not meet a proper requirement for risk management and proper capital distribution to a single option. Desipite this fact, you decide to copy them entirely, including the volume.
If you register with a signal provider and you copy his/her deals, you will have the option to set some rules according to your balance and your risk-appetite. That is because some people have $100 in their accounts and others have $10,000. You should've been more careful while taking these options. That is why I voted that the company is not guilty

If the chats were hacked by an outsider or altered by Naveen1020, Banc de Binary was presented an opportunity to come here dispute what they show. Traders Court cases are based on available evidence. The evidence shows Banc de Binary employees calling trades and using high pressure tactics to encourage more deposits. The evidence shows Banc de Binary employees telling a client how to lie to a credit card company so the client can go deeper into debt.

 

[naveen1020]

That was what I've been trying to say. There's no proof that the company is somehow guilty. There are only a chat-history where someone asks you to follow his signals. He might be from Trading Central, a competitor who had hacked Skype profiles of real dealers ( or brokers ), just a fake name of a real company man. Who knows that?! We can even assume that you have faked the chat-conversation to state your point of view...how could we be sure that they are real?! Moreover, these signals do not meet a proper requirement for risk management and proper capital distribution to a single option. Desipite this fact, you decide to copy them entirely, including the volume.
If you register with a signal provider and you copy his/her deals, you will have the option to set some rules according to your balance and your risk-appetite. That is because some people have $100 in their accounts and others have $10,000. You should've been more careful while taking these options. That is why I voted that the company is not guilty

What a turn. Since you don't have any other point, now you tell, these profiles were hacked or I registered with signal provider. dannyg@bbinary.com his email id and his skype chat matched with his emails sent to me. These are confirmed their id's only, as during the chat, they can see whether my trade was a profit or loss and they even mentioned the amount of trade I opened with them (as they can see at their end).

What kind of person you are. You keep on changing your tone every now and then. All the while you argued on something else, and now you say, you voted not guilty as skype names were fake.. You perfectly suit for broker job.

Here I highlighted to every one..take written proof as much as possible. More experienced brokers might get all their work on phones as well, with out leaving any proof and throw it on clients (with the final words, you gambled...).

I have invited all the members of BDB ( Danny Goldman <dannyg@bbinary.com>
cc: Jack Stanfield <jackst@bbinary.com>,
Harvey Ross <harveyr@bbinary.com>) to dispute at this thread, but they didn't. As said, I will absolutely withdraw this case, if my chat is manipulated.

I have exactly uploaded my chat history and my lost trades pics. Stop giving false comments.

 

[ruseneca]

The evidence shows Banc de Binary employees telling a client how to lie to a credit card company so the client can go deeper into debt.

You are right, @AsstModerator, but as their statement has already been published and it says that "the client has gambled his deposits" without any help from their account managers, it gets harder to say whether they are really guilty and with which of their actions they've contributed to client's loss. If that is because of signals, then who actually sends the signals, Banc de Binary OR Trading Central ( as they have stated that they offer signals from TC ). Another question...why signals provided consist of trading instrument, expiry time and a volume. By accepting a signal, everyone should apply his/her own risk management and capital distribution policies. Both of these are essential instruments when it comes to trading, especially with binary options! Neither of these questions have been answered by client himself or the company. Instead, the client tries to announce all BO brokers are scam and the company just call the client "liar" and "gambler".

What kind of person you are. You keep on changing your tone every now and then. All the while you argued on something else, and now you say, you voted not guilty as skype names were fake.. You perfectly suit for broker job.

Have you read my post?! I wrote that it is possible that someone has hacked their accounts or you can have manipulated the chats...I was not stating that you have or someone has really hacked accounts.
What we have is company's statement that you've lost by gambling ( and you have no right to compain then ), and your statements, chats history and a screenshot of your deals. I am taking all these and based on them, I write my statements.

You claimed that some person with a name "Chris" has been providing you with signals and you've lost due to these signals, just after he has gained a really good profit on your account. When I asked you why you haven't requested a withdrawal then, you wrote some nonsense, then I got to conclusion that your account could have a bonus on top of the deposit. You wrote that it had such. It fully contradicts with your firt comment of my question.

Are you aware of the whole case?! One time you say "I lost $X USD and later on, you claim that you lost $Y USD. If you have actually lost, you must know exactly how much is your loss. Am I right?!
And this just rings the bell!

I've been scammed several times by brokers and I know how they cheated me, what is my loss and what exactly has happened. In your situation, you write some things that lead in the opposite direction.
You can have uploaded some screenshots and chat history but in some places, what you write here contradicts with them. You claim that the signals are the reason for your loss and you continue to buy options, based on the same signals, from the same provider. You claim that someone has promised you high bonuses and when you receive a bonus, you are beging for more, if possible, 3-4 bonuses ( deposit bonuses, risk free trades, bonus on top of your total sum of deposits... ), and now you complain that you've lost...If you expect a win from an account with more than 2 times higher than your balance bonuses, just forget about your "investment". According to your proves, your bonus was more than 2 times higher than your deposit.
So, how can I even think that you could have reached the breakeven and there might have been a small possibility for a partial recovery?! Moreover, I am actively trading with binary options and I have experience with no-deposit bonuses and deposit bonuses so I know when your brain gets tired and you ( as a trader ) are most likely to risk higher than possible in order to reach the wagering balance quicker. Because of this reason, I cannot accept the argument that you have really thought of recovery.

As per the broker's encouragement to lie the bank, since the client has already done so, the broker just pushes him to do that again. I cannot say that it was his idea. Because of this reason, I don't find this action as a "cheating" or "scam" but as immoral, especially when he calls the client a "gambler".

To those who think that I am defending the company...I am not! I am not defending any side here, I just point out why I voted that "based on the evidence, the company is not guilty" and this decision has nothing to do with any other cases against this company. Every case is unique and should be treated as such!

 

[Pharaoh]

Those chat session makes it very plain that Banc de Binary's employees did call a number of trades, so any claim that Naveen gambled away his money unaided should be taken with a large grain of salt. Then there's the matter of a BDB employee advising Naveen about the best way to lie to get a temporary credit line increase. Everyone with any experiencing in trading knows that no one should ever borrow money to trade. If a licensed money manager ever gave unethical advice like that, suspending the license would be the smallest possible penalty any real regulator would dish out.

 

[naveen1020]

You claimed that some person with a name "Chris" has been providing you with signals and you've lost due to these signals, just after he has gained a really good profit on your account. When I asked you why you haven't requested a withdrawal then, you wrote some nonsense, then I got to conclusion that your account could have a bonus on top of the deposit. You wrote that it had such. It fully contradicts with your firt comment of my question.

Same old nonsense.. Where I got time to withdraw when emptied in an hr or 2.

You can have uploaded some screenshots and chat history but in some places, what you write here contradicts with them. You claim that the signals are the reason for your loss and you continue to buy options, based on the same signals, from the same provider. You claim that someone has promised you high bonuses and when you receive a bonus, you are beging for more, if possible, 3-4 bonuses ( deposit bonuses, risk free trades, bonus on top of your total sum of deposits... ), and now you complain that you've lost...If you expect a win from an account with more than 2 times higher than your balance bonuses, just forget about your "investment". According to your proves, your bonus was more than 2 times higher than your deposit.

Are you lost. Even when I showed with proof you are talking nonsense. Prove how my bonus is 2 times higher than my deposits.
I showed proof of what they assured (both bonus and risk free trades) and you keep on arguing nonsense.


For all, just found an article that mentioned the same person (Danny Goldman) and how he cheats 8500 pounds.

TONY HETHERINGTON: 'Free money' led me to bet away £8,500  | This is Money

Stay away and especially don't get trap with VIP accounts.... blah...blah.. etc...

I know, even for this @ruseneca will have some story.

 

[ruseneca]

If a licensed money manager ever gave unethical advice like that, suspending the license would be the smallest possible penalty any real regulator would dish out.

I strongly doubt that these "advisers" are licensed, @Pharaoh! They are just selling Banc de Binary services. If they were licensed, they would never tell the client how much to bet on a certain asset, or in other words, how much to put in a single option. They might provide some information about the possible movement and middle-term or long-term trend BUT for a period of 15-20 minutes...it is simply betting on a possibility for them. That's why when someone calls me and claims that "they are the best", I immediately ask for their trade history for the preceding 5 years. And I am sure you know what is the answer...a guy calling me from London even started yelling at me, I was stupid for not depositing with him and his 30% profit per year. I blacklisted him!

Every binary options company uses such methods to convince a client to make a deposit. Afterwards, they just rely on the probabilities. Why should they scam or cheat when 95% of clients lose. Of course, they would offer very lucrative bonuses. In fact, they reduce clients' chances to reach a point from where they can request a withdrawal. The real scam practices start at this point. Since the client had not had a possibility to request a withdrawal, I cannot be sure that they really scam people.

I underline again, if someone is not happy with the way binary options companies do their business, then you'd better stay away from this sector as a whole. All of them use these maneuvers studies in the universities that if you push the client enough, he/she would buy the service at any cost. I even have no idea who has concluded that...

Same old nonsense.. Where I got time to withdraw when emptied in an hr or 2.

Actually, Naveen, you were the one who has emptied the account. They cannot have access to your account. So, if you hadn't requested a bonus on your account, you would had had the chance to withdraw. Of course, I strongly doubt that you would have turned your deposit several times in order to reach these $125,000 ( or whatever this amount was ). Of course, trading without a bonus is hard but this is the only path to success.

prove how my bonus is 2 times higher than my deposit

Naveen, for your last deposit, this David had offered you $50,000 and you agree on even $40,000. So, tell us first whether they credited the bonus and then, how many times the bonus is higher than your deposit. Can you do this simple calculation?! Now, do you get why I am telling you that they had not scammed you. You just got trapped in this "brilliant" and "shiny" offer, aimed to steal your $10,000 or at least reduce them. Because if you somehow succeed in wagering this, your balance can be even lower than $10,000. Do you agree on that?! Therefore, you had actually lost! Anyway, these are just hypothetical situations.

I showed proof of what they assured (both bonus and risk free trades)

it is possible to make you such offers but then, your bonus for deposit will be reduced and the remaining will be given as a "risk-free trade". If you lose, it would be credited as a bonus again, not as real money! That's why I told you that they cannot offer you bonus for deposit high up to their limit and in the same time, a risk-free trade. They can combine both but in this case, the bonuses are with reduced amount. Noone tells that it is impossible, but there are limits for each bonus.
In order to make such offers, just guess how many traders had lost their money with this company....

For all, just found an article that mentioned the same person (Danny Goldman) and how he cheats 8500 pounds.

I know, even for this @ruseneca will have some story.

Actually, I don't have another story...it is same as yours. Both of you are newbies and you just got into these selling traps. This is the way they accumulate profits for the company, this is how they receive their paychecks in the end of each month.
Both of you had had the chance to lose amounts which you can afford to lose but you were just sooo blind to see that there's no such thing as "recovery" unless you know what you are doing. The company is not to be blamed for your unreasonable actions to deposit high amounts and apply for high bonuses. They just offer such possibility. If you want a bonus, you take it. If you want signals, you take them.
If you are saying that these signals are meant to scam you and lose you funds, then why you continued to use them?
It is the big question which I ask everyone who claim that these signals are crap. You are the one who trade, you are the one who risk, you are the one whose funds are put in danger of loss. Instead of reducing the risk, you just increase it. Well, that's your problem!

This is my profit from yesterday, after I made a deposit, traded with 10-12 options and requested a withdrawal, with the same platform you have used. Of course, the broker is different. But this is how I trade without a bonus, risking low amounts of deposits and putting my balance in a low risk. Moreover, I have a 7-year experience in these markets and have learned some technics. Today, I got my withdrawal which I scheduled last night. This is an example how someone could make money from binary options. So, promises for a profit are not an actual scam or cheating. It is who you trade and understand the markets...

With this, I would like to tell you that everything is in your hands, Naveen. If you leave someone else to manage your capital, you would better not feel sorry that he lost it or made a profit. You and the man/woman from the article has put too much in risk and you have actually allowed someone to take control of your lives. There's always an exit point and you both have decided to ask for your rights when it is too late. If you lose once, you will keep losing forever and no stories for recovery and high profits could ever change this fact.
Go back to the past, learn from your mistakes, instead of telling us stories about high bonuses, VIP accounts, guilty companies, selling men calling themselves "brokers", "experts" or whatsoever...
Your mistake to beg for bonus has led to the situation...and you just could have exited with a total loss of your initial deposit. Am I right?!
You'd better listen to what a professional could tell you, instead of sending him some articles which just prove what I have already stated in this thread.

This is already a past and whatever is CySec's official statement regarding your case, you cannot receive your funds back. You cannot go to the credit card companies and apply for a chargeback, too! You have already lied them several times for the real reason behind increasing you limits.

 

[PeterV1]

I disagree with you and I think your comments are unfair.
most of the time it is the same story. push to make a huge deposit to get better deal and signals then nothing. You loose and the pressure again is on to put more or say goodbye
you said "Since the client had not had a possibility to request a withdrawal, I cannot be sure that they really scam people"?? so what it is then??

all the process is a scam if you are a newbie because you dont know the terms, how it works, the bonus effect etc...they target a specific audience! which IS a scam pattern.