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Prime4x - Pay your Clients Now or Go Out of Business

Discussion in 'Forex Articles' started by Pharaoh, Mar 24, 2011.

  1. Pharaoh

    Pharaoh Colonel

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    Prime 4x
    Pay Your Clients Now or Go Out of Business

    by Pharaoh
    Beware the Curse of the Pharaoh


    The FPA's AsstModerator was going to write this. He is so fed up with Prime 4x that he passed an outline and a ton of background information over to me and asked me to write an updating to what happening with Prime and come up with ideas for dealing with this broker. I think the battle plans I've created will force a resolution, one way or another.


    The Persistent Problem

    By now, most of you know the story. Prime4x gets a HUGE pile of complaints, more than all the other brokerages reviewed at the FPA combined. Abdel Rahman El Omari of Prime 4x promises to fix the issue “soon” or even by a specific date, but he almost never succeeded. Those few payments that did happen took far longer than they should have.

    I've developed a personal theory. I think Omari gets some sort of sick and twisted personal pleasure out of seeing how long he can string people along before they finally give up. I think he enjoys watching people suffer while he puts their cash into his own pockets.


    More Than Money is at Stake

    This isn't just about traders losing their hard earned money. In theory, you shouldn't trade money in forex that you can't afford to lose. That doesn't mean that you should be happy when a broker decides to keep it. That also doesn't mean that life can't throw a big surprise at you leaving you desperately in need of ever bit of cash you can get your hands on.

    Some of the reviews, forums posts, and emails tell of IBs who made the mistake of working with Prime4x.com being jailed over criminal charges or even being beaten by their clients. Prime4x would have you believe that each and every sad story is just a lie to try to get money out faster. So what? That's money that BELONGS to the clients. The story should be "I would like to withdraw my money." with a reply of "Your money has been sent, here is confirmation of delivery."

    Let me tell you a story that is true. Lin is a trader in China who has about $5000 trapped inside his Prime4x account. He's been desperately trying to get it out since his mother had been diagnosed with cancer and he needs the money for her treatment. Maybe Omari at Prime thinks this is another lie to try to extract cash (that's OWED to the trader anyway), but this one has evidence showing that it is real. The FPA has copies of this man's trading records and his mother's medical records. Omari knows about this man's problem, but so far the report is that he never bothered to write back and let the guy know if the money would ever be sent.

    In my opinion, it appears that Omari and the rest of the people at Prime4x don't care if their policy of improperly keeping a traders money has bad results, even deaths. I guess that P4X is willing to consider that sort of thing to be acceptable collateral damage in their quest to pocket as much client cash as possible. Killing clients' relatives while keeping client dollars seems like it could become part of their official policy. I wonder if that's now included in Prime's TOS agreement?

    This article was mostly written and was just waiting for a little more information from a few of the other victims. In the meantime, something terrible has happened. Lin's mother has died while Abdel Rahman El Omari, Amr Hendawi, Robert Cris, and others at Prime4x failed to get the money to him. As of today, Lin hasn't heard if he'll get any of his money in time to pay for her funeral. Based on Prime's actions, I don't think Lin will ever see any of his money again.

    I don't know if a company can be considered to be guilty of negligent homicide or not. I do know that individuals can. I can only hope there's a way for Lin to drag these guys into court and see them all put behind bars for a very long time. Taking money often results in very light sentences. Contributing to someone's death is usually worth a much longer stay in prison.

    Omari, Amr, Chris, and everyone else at Prime4x, I have some questions for all of you. How does it feel knowing that your actions are linked to the death of a client's mother? Can you look your own relatives in the face knowing what you have done? Can you look at your own reflections in the mirror knowing what you have done?


    More Lies and Deception

    Remember Vincent's website Prime4xScam.com? Omari promised Vincent and the FPA that Prime4x would pay the first $320,000 of the over $1 million owed to Vincent months ago to prove to the FPA both that Prime was paying people and that Prime had more than enough cash on hand to meet its obligations. Omari then contacted Vincent, told him that the money wouldn't arrive in time, but promised to send it in smaller amounts. Since then, Vincent reports that total of only around $20,000 had been received, always followed by promises of more money soon. Omari made Vincent promise to lie to the FPA about all of this. What Omari didn't know was that copies of every email were sent to the FPA throughout the entire incident. Since Omari tried very hard to put nothing too incriminating in writing, he can't even claim that Vincent violated any confidentiality agreements - had there been such an agreement, it would have also included a repayment schedule that Omari obviously never had any intention of keeping. Whenever our AsstModerator asked, Omari never would directly answered any questions about how much money Vincent got, only saying that Vincent got money.

    Speaking of that Vincent's website, it looks like Omar and Prime had enough money to pay for a DDoS (distributed denial of service) attack to knock it offline just after it was first posted. It's back now and Vincent is not happy about all the broken promises. Hey Prime, why don't you just pay Vincent instead spending more client money hiring criminal hackers?

    Overall, I think this is pretty strong evidence that if you are a client and haven't been paid yet, you aren't going to get paid until a judge forces Prime to hand back your money.


    The Latest Delay. Omari Gone or Just Using a New Alias?

    On March 14th, Robert posted that Omari and Amr no longer work for Prime4x. The new person in charge is supposed to be named Andri Kampinsky. I just ran a quick Google search on “Andri Kampinsky” (put it in quotes to keep from finding pages containing the Andri in one place and Kampinsky in another). Guess what? There was ONLY one page on the entire internet with that name. The posting at the FPA.

    Maybe it was a typo? “Andi” replied to one email from the FPA and signed it as “Andri kimpensky”. Google pulled a blank on that name too. This article will be the first time that name goes up on the web, at least until Prime4x manages to backdate some items somewhere.

    I find it hard to believe that someone qualified to run a forex company could have managed to get that far in life without a single mention on the internet.. Google yourself sometime and see how well known you are.

    Maybe I'm just being too hard on Andri? Oh wait, I'm not. He's allegedly been in charge for 10+ days now and there hasn't been a single report of anyone getting paid yet. Instead, there are more complaints of no replies. This is just like all of Omari's never ending “payments are coming soon” excuses.

    I could be wrong, but I think that Andri is just Omari using a new name to buy himself some more time. He's already been ignoring emails about traders who desperately need their money. I think Andri/Omari is sitting at his computer in Cairo laughing himself sick over how funny it is that he's got some gullible people having hope again.


    How to Take Action NOW

    You already know you should leave a 1 star review here:
    Prime 4X | Prime4X.com reviews and ratings by Forex Peace Army

    Make sure to include your account number, the amount, and how long you have been trying to withdraw. If you left a review over a month or so back, go ahead and leave a followup review.

    Also, make a posting with the same info here

    Report Prime4x withdrawal issues here


    Now is the time to take this to a whole new level. First, there is a fairly new website open to people from any country to file complaints for Cross-Border consumer complaints. Its run by the US Federal Trade Commission and it at econsumer.gov. Click here and fill out the complaint form.


    Then send the following email:

    Many thanks to FPA member Ballestero for this information and email template.

    Go to this page: Mauritian embassies in foreign countries :: Mauritius Island Online - Tourist & Travel Information Mauritius and locate the nearest Mauritian embassy. Send the same email message there addressed to the ambassador.


    Contact your local police and bank. Ask them how to file a complaint for internet-based investment fraud in your country when that fraud that comes from another country. If you are one of the ones who reports getting a fake TT copy from Prime, show that to your bank, to the police, and send a copy to the bank the wire was supposed to have come from. Banks really hate that sort of wire fraud, since it gives them a bad name and reduces people's confidence in using bank wires. If you find out anything about how to legally pursue this in your own country, please post it in this thread to let others in your country know how they can proceed.


    If you are in Germany, go to your local police station and tell them you want to file a suit at the German Staatsanwaltschaft. The bad news is that this probably won't get you your money back. Germany and Mauritius don't have the right treaties to pursue this. The good news is that as the number of cases pile up, the authorities and press will become more likely to take note.

    Thanks to FPA reviewer Christian D. for this information.


    If you are in the USA, be aware that the CFTC has already sued Prime4x for some rules violations involving US clients. So far, this looks more like a civil action, but the fact that CFTC lawyers are on the case means it wouldn't be too hard to escalate the issue. Go to the CFTC contact page and file a complaint.

    As long as you are at it, tell the US Securities and Exchange Commission. To put it mildly, the SEC frowns on investment firms not returning client money. Since Prime's US end is based in Delaware, go ahead and contact the Delaware Attorney General's Office. As long as you already have all your information together, go ahead and finish the job by filing a complaint with IC3.gov.


    How to Finish Off Prime4x's Scam

    All of the above is just the start. Bad companies thrive on getting new customers who don't know how bad they are. They hire sleazy people to make fake posts in reviews, forums, and blogs to try to discredit real clients and websites that show real complaints. This method was first used against the FPA by Forexgen. That broker is now out of business, but the FPA goes on. That's because this despicable tactic isn't nearly as effective when used with lies and deception. Still, one should learn from experiences, even bad ones.

    The liars and thieves at ForexGen gave me an idea. What if one used similar tactics, but only in an honest and ethical way? How can someone use the power of the web to spread the truth far and wide? I call the idea Ethical Vengeance and wrote a guide for it here. This could bring down a company while still maintaining the high ethical standards that the FPA expects all troops to follow. It worked against ForexGen. That scam shop is out of business. It can work against Prime4x too.

    Unlike the scum who make fake posts to hide the truth, I'm calling on all Prime4x victims to strike back by openly and honestly sharing the truth as widely as possible.

    Check out Vincent's Prime4xscam.com website for ideas.

    You can do the same. If you have the skills, you can register your own domain name and make your own page showing what Prime 4x did to you. If you are an IB with your own site already, please go ahead and create a special page just for showing what Prime4x did to you and your clients. Prime 4x already managed to get Vincent's website knocked offline once using a denial of service attack, so they'll probably try to do it again. I'll bet they aren't set up to knock down 10 or 20 or more sites at once.

    One other note for Prime4x IBs. You represent a large number of people who are owed large amounts of money. Join together with each other and with individual clients who are owed large amounts. Use your collective power to hire professional investigators. Omari liked to go on and on about being in Dubai, but all evidence points to Prime 4x being mostly based in Cairo, Egypt.


    f you aren't artistic, lack the skills, or don't have the time or money to put into a full website, there is still so much that you can do to get the word out with very little effort on your part.

    First, if you are a member of any other forex forum, post about your problems there. Put links in your post back to where you have posted at the FPA. Don't just post a link back to here. Lay out the facts of your problem so that people can see that you are a real trader who is owed money, not just someone posting cross-links to other sites. Reply to this thread and post links to the other places that you've posted about Prime. If you find other forex review sites, post reviews there telling about your experiences with Prime4x.

    Second, create a blog or two. If you make more than one, make sure to identify who you are and include links to your other blogs. The idea is to share the truth, not to pretend to be two or more people to make it seem like more clients are complaining. Post a truthful accounting of your issue and all of your contacts with Prime4x in your blog(s). Update it once every week or two and let everyone know if you got paid or not. Make sure to post a link to your blog(s) in this thread.

    Now comes the good part. This is how we'll all make sure that everyone knows about P4X's methods of keeping your money.

    If you can write more than one language, make your blog and any forums posts multilingual in all the languages that you can write. This will get picked up in the search engines and make it easier for non-English speakers to find out about Prime. If the forum is English, like the FPA, start in English and then put the translations directly underneath. If the place you are posting has a different default language, start with that language and put the English and any other translations under that.

    Keep checking this thread for links to other websites and blogs that expose Prime4x's actions. Post links to those on your website or blogs. As more and more of these websites are linked together, it will be easier and easier for people to see what kind of company Prime4x really is. It will become harder and harder for Prime4x to hide the truth about their actions from new traders.

    Let me re-emphasize the extreme importance of ethics here. Do not try to pretend to be more than one person. If anything like that is detected, Prime will just use it to claim that all of their victims are really only one or two disgruntled customers. Do not participate or call for any illegal actions, no matter how tempting it may be to do so. That only reduces you to the same level as scammers and other criminals. The FPA is an army that has high standards. Working within these rules and publicizing the misdeeds of bad companies has lead to many scam brokers being shut down already. For maximum effect, include your Prime 4x account number in any forum postings, reviews, websites, or blogs where you post a complaint about Prime.

    Tell Prime4x what you are doing. Send them links. Tell them you'll be updating your online postings and adding more until you get paid. Tell them you'll let everyone know if they do finally pay you all the money they owe you. They'll try to call this blackmail. It isn't. All you want is your money and Prime 4x refused to give it back to you. Warning others to not fall into the same trap is something any good person would do.


    Do you know anyone in the press? Try to tell them your story. Reporters only end up following a modest amount of the stories that come to their attention, so if only one or two P4X victims do this, it probably won't go anywhere. On the other hand, if every victim of Prime4x who has any sort of press connection acts, multiple stories will be run in reputable news outlets around the world. More people will be warned. More pressure will be placed on Prime from more angles.


    If you have an account with Prime4x, don't wait for others to take action. Each trader must take action individually and then link up with others. If you sit on your hands and wait for others to act, you'll be helping Prime steal not only your money but money from new victims. Remember what Prime4x took from you and from other traders. Don't stop updating until you get paid your money or until Prime4x is out of business for good. Giving up is exactly what Omari and the others at Prime4x want you to do. That lets Prime keep your money and get more money from more new customers. Get the truth out to as many people as possible.

    If all of Prime4x's victims can just create even a single blog and post to one more forum, that will create a tidal wave of truth that Prime's owners can't hide from. If they all make a few posts, a couple of blogs, do this in many languages, and link all of these together, it will devastate Prime's ability to gather more money from more victims. Combine this with complaints to the authorities and some news stories from around the world and the effect just keeps getting bigger and bigger. Cut off Prime's supply of fresh cash from innocent forex traders and the company will go under sooner or later.


    Hello Prime 4x. Pay your clients now or go out of business very soon.



    FPA Links about Prime 4x:

    List of client complaints against Prime 4x. Report Prime4x successful and unsuccessful withdrawals here.

    Original warning message sent about Prime4x.com

    FPA Review Page for Prime4x

    FPA Scam Confirmation against Prime4x.com

    Discussion thread for FPA Scam Finding against Prime 4x

    Useful External Links:

    Vincent's Prime4xscam.com page

    EConsumer - for Cross-Border Consumer Complaints

    Delaware Attorney General's Office

    CFTC Contact Page

    SEC Contact Page

    Internet Crime Complaint Center - IC3.gov

    Have a Nice Day!
    Unless you're a scammer.
    :D

     
  2. AsstModerator

    AsstModerator FPA Forums and Reviews Admin

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    No one at FPA HQ wanted to call for destroying a broker. Prime4x's own actions left no choice. Prime4x needs to change its methods from scam to honest immediately or it needs to go.
     
  3. Ballestero

    Ballestero Private

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    Rightly so. No mercy for scamers.
     
  4. vincentw

    vincentw Recruit

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    Prime4xscam.com / Prime4x are scam

    Hello everyone,

    My name is Vincent, one of the people who was scammed by Prime4x.
    I have just gone onto there website and there is no live chat available, only the option to leave a message - so it is obvious they have disappeared.
    I please urge everyone to click on my website which is "www.prime4xscam.com" the more hits my website has the more popular it will become with search engines when people google information about Prime. None of the links work the website is designed only to warn people about Prime and how dishonest they are.

    I have lost a large amount of money to Prime4x but i would like to take this opportunity to thank FPA, especially Bill (a warm and genuine chap) for all there help and support in the pursuit of helping all us traders try and get our funds back.

    Prime4x told me that if I lied to FPA and told them that i had received all my funds then they would start paying me back some of my funds - i immediately told FPA what was going on and how best to deal with the situation - what a thoroughly disgusting company they are - - -by the way i never received funds as promised. They constantly dangled false promises in front of me to keep quiet to FPA, all the time i was sending FPA all there emails and copying FPA in on all the correspondence privately.

    I understand that many people were scammed and lost money to Prime4x, some of us lost more than others but whatever the amount was it is still a horrible action that Prime4x has done, especially keeping the website active trying to entice new customers - - - thank god for FPA and all there efforts warning people, it has obviously worked as there website looks like it won't be active for long.

    Long live FPA :)
    Kind regards,
    vincent
     
  5. BenMcDui

    BenMcDui Corporal

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    vincentw: "I have just gone onto there website and there is no live chat available, only the option to leave a message - so it is obvious they have disappeared."

    I am still holding a small amount with Prime4X - just to see how things are going and to test my robots occasionally. I just tried to enter the Member Area on their website and I was able to inspect my own account; the money is still there, at least the figures say so.... The trading system works, my robot opens and closes positions.

    Currently, I have no pending withdrawals so my legal position does not allow me to file formal complaints. I encourage everyone to whom Prime4X still ows money to pursue any possibility to nail Prime4X. It's your money, they have stolen it. If they don't pay back, they should not be in business but in prison.
     
  6. f-man

    f-man 4Xangels Representative

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    Did they ever pay anybody?

    It seems that they are holding a few million dollars and they want to keep it.
    It is really unbelievable that they can earn so much money through the trading of all their customers, but they still prefer to go the dirty way and steal the money.
    I hope that justice will finally track them down.
     
  7. mkdavis

    mkdavis Recruit

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    Due Diligence

    What can i say? Some people got screwed big time and it was their mistake. No one put a gun to their head and took their money, they gave it away themselves. Anyone ever heard of due diligence? And how can you send money to a broker who's website looks like that (and i've seen a few that looked even worse and less professional)? What kind of bonuses did you get to make a deposit to p4x? If you have a truckload of money, why would you want to deposit to a so called broker that you don't know nothing about? Hell, if i had a $100,000+ account i wouldn't trust it with any of the main brokers out there (except maybe dukasc) - when you have a lot of money, GO TO A BANK, they will offer you some forex trading options as well and managed accounts. When you have less than that, go to well known broker.
    Scam brokers wouldn't exist if people won't be looking for stuff they can get for FREE. Coz that's what scammers do, they offer you a whole lot more that you get with similar services/products and for a better price. But i don't get how people who have $10,000+ don't ask themselves how can one broker give you something (the same something that 99% of the brokers give you) and other brokers (the 1% scammers) can give you twice of the same something and at half the price? WHEN SOMETHING LOOKS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE, IT PROBABLY IS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE (i did and still do import/export and know people who found some suppliers who could provide iphones for $100 or playstations for $50, and yes the people wanted to buy them, and yes they sent a lot of money to people they didn't know, and yes they got either some cheap replicas or empty boxes - same thing with the forex brokers)
    The people who got scammed have a thing in common with the scammer - they think they can get stuff without working for it (unfortunately for them, the scammer actually gets something for free).
    As for P4X, yea maybe you will shut it down (i hope you do) but what will stop it's owner to create a new site and and scam other people? (unless he's in jail and that's really hard to do).
    As long as there are people who think they can get something for free (or for cheap), there will be scammers.
    So my advice is (when it comes to everything, not only forex), do your research about your "business partner" and if it's too good to be true, it probably is.
     
  8. ForexTopShop

    ForexTopShop Recruit

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    Helping Guy from China

    Hello everyone,

    Maybe we should help this guy from China? I think FPA don't mind... We could gather some money... 5000$ should not be a Big problem.. FPA please contact me at support@forextopshop.com about how I can send money to you or this guy straightly, I think I could find 1000$ for him, maybe more... I think any amount that is needed.. I could also connect other people, Also FPA I think don't mind to donate. I could lend some money for this guy if his story is true... Maybe also other members could connect? As well as FPA. I mean this is really serious... That can happen to anyone and everyone would want to get help in such sitouation.

    Kind Regards,
    Arturs, ForexTopShop/
     
  9. FXPulsator

    FXPulsator Private

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    Large funds are alway's safe with Banks

    Hi

    Vincent, how could you trust this broker with such large deposits over $1mill.
    If you have such a large deposit better to go with Bank-brokers who has enough liquidity and highly regulated in their respective countries.

    For simple reason most of the brokers although they claim to be ECN/STP, do not cut all the trades with the liquidity providers, some trades they do take the risk on themselves... and you never know when they will get into trouble... as such they are not subject to financial / operational audits due to poor regulation.... I am really scared with the BVI/Middle-East/Panama/Mauritius registered brokers, who do not have any sort of regulatory control.

    My request to FPA to come out the list of brokers(keep updating quarterly), with the ratings on how much each broker is worth of keeping the fund-size vis-a-vis their regulation and other operational parameters.
    a) Highly regulated in their country of origin and has enough liquidity (rated good)
    b) Moderately regulated and good liquidity (potential risk)
    c) Poorly regulated, liquidity questionable (High risk)

    Such info should help the investors to determine what fund size(initial deposit + profit pool) one can entrust with the broker.

    The current readers ratings in 'Reviews & Ratings' are not enough, need more than that. We do not know the update status of the issues posted on R&R, most of them are age old hence are not useful for taking decisions.

    Regards.
     
  10. Greevus

    Greevus Recruit

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