Resolved: FBS BROKER DELETE MY PROFIT 215000$

[FxMaster]

There are new replies from FBS rep on page 4..

 

[Gayanlakshantha]

Dear Gayan Lakshantha!
First and foremost, we bring our apologies for this situation and would like to inform you that all your orders opened and closed before the off-market quote have been returned to their initial state.
Regarding the orders opened with the off-market quotes, they were cancelled in full accordance with the Customer Agreement.
As for liquidity providers, kindly let us inform you that, in simple words, these are usually large commercial and central banks and multinational companies, which provide the quotes to a broker. All deals of FBS clients are brought to the interbank currency market by means of the biggest liquidity suppliers such as UBS, Nomura, Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, Goldman Sachs, HSBC, City Bank.
Hope we have managed to resolve this situation!

dear FBS
your fake sound is now over .
i see your add 72400$. but see this video. and thank you for re add 72400$

 

[Gayanlakshantha]

1) why only $72,400 instead of the full $215,000?

2) did you receive an email explaining the sudden re-add of money?

3) did you request withdrawal yet? You should withdraw the full amount. you should be eligible at least for bank wire transfer. But they may also allow other options like netteller.

Report back to us when you receive your withdrawal successfully.

check your privet mail box . i send trading history.

 

[FBS Official Rep]

This is bull**** for several reasons. Mainly because no off-quote feed would have lasted for 7 straight weeks. The more likely explanation was that all the trades were 100% internalized and then the broker did not want to pay out such a high amount after the fact.

Latency arbitrage is very difficult to do on retail broker feed. And it would be detected fairly quickly by broker/LP and dealt with within a day or two maximum. Especially with mt5, which was designed to connect directly to exchanges and LPs/LP pool.

FBS advertise 95% of execution within 0.4 second execution (400ms)
View attachment 43852
Agency brokers can achieve avg 10ms fill times and 1ms with exceptional LPs mt4/5 it will be about 30-80ms minimum round trip. <1ms would need api connection with broker. So if you have longer execution times like 100-300ms, latency arbitrage would be non-existent.

Also, you claim that execution is 100% STP. You had an error price feed for 7 weeks across multiple major currency pairs? Yeah, right.

Also you claim that all strategies are acceptable, including automated strategies.
View attachment 43853

So how exactly did @Gayanlakshantha strategy abuse your 100% stp on MT5 server?

Dear 4evermaat!
We are sorry that we are forced out to ask you to avoid using obscene language. It’s a pity that @FxMaster pays no attention to such behavior and allows it on a respectable forum.
Also we bring our apologies since it seems like our explanations were not clear enough, we will try to clarify the situation here once more.
First of all, kindly let us reply on your questions addressed to Mr. Gayan Lakshantha as well.
As we have written in our previous reply to you as well as it has been explained to Mr. Gayan Lakshantha in the e-mail sent by our customer support agent, Mr. Gayan Lakshantha sees 72258$ of profit on his balance since all the orders opened and closed before the lagging in quote translation system (started on 13.08.2019) have been returned. All the orders (profitable or lossmaking) opened and closed on 13.08.2019 have been cancelled for the following reason:
On 13.08.2019 upon internal investigation, we have identified lagging in the quotes translation system that resulted in a delayed delivery of prices to the trading server of MetaTrader5 from the liquidity provider. This delay was as well recorded by the market price monitoring systems. Thereunder, with quotes lagging being fixed, according to the world market practice, the orders opened during the lagging were cancelled, as well as profit or loss of such orders.
According to the Customer Agreement:
3.2.12.Orders opened or closed by the off-market quotes can be canceled:
a) In the event that the order was opened by off-market quotations
b) In the event that the order was closed by the off-market quotations
8.6. Should the order of the Client be open, closed or changed due to the off-market quote, the Company reserves the right to return the order status before spike.
Along with that:
3.2.13. The Company doesn’t allow the usage of arbitrage strategies on connected markets (e.g. currency futures and spot currencies). In case the Client uses arbitrage in either clear or hidden way, the Company reserves a right to cancel such orders.
As for the 7 weeks, please, kindly take notice that we do not say that the lagging was during this period, the period in question is only 13.08.2019. Just like you said, the lagging has been detected within less than a day. And, as it has been already said in our previous reply to you, this was really a mistake from our side, a human factor incident, that the whole trading history, instead of 13.08.2019 only, has been cancelled. We admitted it, brought our apologies and made corrections accordingly.
Further, we would like to inform you that orders execution time depends not only on the ping, but on the market liquidity, order queue and connection, since not always the ping along the route is 70-80 ms. Liquidity providers never guarantee momentary execution, e.g. even on the site of Nomura you can find the following information: NAM UK executes client orders as soon as practical, unless postponing execution is likely to produce a better outcome for the client, for example, where the trader believes that market impact and price movement will be limited by managing an order over a period of time. It is absolutely consistent with the information on the site: we guarantee order execution up to 5 sec, statistically 95% of the orders are executed for less than 400 ms, but this doesn’t mean that it cannot be longer or faster.
With regard to the trading strategies, it is absolutely true: hedging, scalping, news trading, using of Expert Advisors and so on are allowed. Though any kind of arbitrage is strictly prohibited, which is clearly stated in the Customer Agreement, as you can see.
Once again, we apologize for any inconvenience this situation could cause to Mr.Gayan Lakshantha.
Nevertheless, our actions were justified in full accordance with the Customer Agreement - in the current situation no orders (profit or loss) can be restored from the time of delayed market prices (13.08.2019).

FPA Forums Team Note: FxMaster is not the profanity police. We did edit the original post when someone complained. Since you went to the effort to quote the exact language you find so offensive, we now have to take extra time to edit your copy.

 

[FBS Official Rep]

dear FBS
your fake sound is now over .
i see your add 72400$. but see this video. and thank you for re add 72400$

Dear Gayan Lakshantha!
Kindly let us repeat the information written above:
You see 72258$ of profit on your balance since all the orders opened and closed before the lagging in quote translation system (started on 13.08.2019) have been returned. All the orders (profitable or lossmaking) opened and closed on 13.08.2019 have been cancelled for the following reason:
On 13.08.2019 upon internal investigation, we have identified lagging in the quotes translation system that resulted in a delayed delivery of prices to the trading server of MetaTrader5 from the liquidity provider. This delay was as well recorded by the market price monitoring systems. Thereunder, with quotes lagging being fixed, according to the world market practice as well as to the Customer Agreement (p.3.2.12., 3.2.13., 8.6.), the orders opened during the lagging were cancelled, as well as profit or loss of such orders.
We are extremely sorry for the whole situation and for the cancellation of the whole trading history - we admit that we should have investigate the matter more properly.
Regarding your comment on the ping, we recommend you to read our reply to Mr./Ms. 4evermaat.
Once again, we apologize for any inconvenience this situation could cause you.
Nevertheless, our actions are justified in full accordance with the Customer Agreement - in the current situation no orders (profit or loss) can be restored from the time of delayed market prices (13.08.2019).

 

[4evermaat]

Dear 4evermaat!
Thank you for the relevant question, it helped us to see inaccuracy in the taken actions. We admit our mistake regarding the eliminating of all the profit on Mr. Gayan Lakshantha’s account and bring our sincerest apologies to him. We thoroughly checked the case once again and returned all the orders opened and closed before the off-market quote. Kindly let us assure you that we didn’t have any bad intentions and this was purely a human factor incident....

I would like to say in bold that I will admit that FBS 80% did the right thing by returning 33% of the client's profits. This is compared to an offshore broker who had purely bucket shop intention and would have not even responded to this thread. So they deserve some positive remarks for this.

20% of me is still concerned about the lack of transparency in how FBS reached conclusion that off-market pricing occurred.

Trades were made throughout the day for each trading day including 2019.08.13, over several pairs, on mt5. But even mt4, the facts would have been the same.

A few seconds can be like a few months trading financial derivatives. That is why finality in trading is needed. If a broker (or LP) cannot offer finality of a trade, they are worthless. Especially if they are using mt5, which is designed to connect to exchanges and LP's directly without the need for additional bridge like mt4.

...If you check other broker companies, you will see that most of them delete orders opened or closed with off-market quote. Such practice is widespread due to the fact that order opened or closed with off-market quote cannot be considered correct.....

You don't delete trading history without client consent. Because the trade "happened" After the fact, you issue an adjustment/reversal and you have a very specific reason for doing each adjustment.

A broker must offer correct price feed and execution. If they cannot do this with 99.99% accuracy, they are worthless to a serious trader.

First and foremost, we bring our apologies for this situation and would like to inform you that all your orders opened and closed before the off-market quote have been returned to their initial state.
Regarding the orders opened with the off-market quotes, they were cancelled in full accordance with the Customer Agreement.

...As for liquidity providers, kindly let us inform you that, in simple words, these are usually large commercial and central banks and multinational companies, which provide the quotes to a broker. All deals of FBS clients are brought to the interbank currency market by means of the biggest liquidity suppliers such as UBS, Nomura, Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, Goldman Sachs, HSBC, City Bank.
Hope we have managed to resolve this situation!

Can you provide clients with FIX trade reports for each trade? This would include market snapshot showing who took the other side of the trade and the nearby bid/offers/depth for each trade. These records can be kept for several weeks. It might look something like this:

Hope we have managed to resolve this situation!

I think you should update your website to reflect the true execution times. There seems to be an increase in times up to 2000ms (2 seconds) for trades that should only take under 400ms from VPS that has 1ms latency to the broker's server. Other broker can do it in under 70ms and the trade is final.


And elaborate on the exact calculation methods you used to determine which trades were off-market price.

 

[Gayanlakshantha]

can you re add this video to 1 page?

 

[Gayanlakshantha]

 

[Gayanlakshantha]

Dear Gayan Lakshantha!
Kindly let us repeat the information written above:
You see 72258$ of profit on your balance since all the orders opened and closed before the lagging in quote translation system (started on 13.08.2019) have been returned. All the orders (profitable or lossmaking) opened and closed on 13.08.2019 have been cancelled for the following reason:
On 13.08.2019 upon internal investigation, we have identified lagging in the quotes translation system that resulted in a delayed delivery of prices to the trading server of MetaTrader5 from the liquidity provider. This delay was as well recorded by the market price monitoring systems. Thereunder, with quotes lagging being fixed, according to the world market practice as well as to the Customer Agreement (p.3.2.12., 3.2.13., 8.6.), the orders opened during the lagging were cancelled, as well as profit or loss of such orders.
We are extremely sorry for the whole situation and for the cancellation of the whole trading history - we admit that we should have investigate the matter more properly.
Regarding your comment on the ping, we recommend you to read our reply to Mr./Ms. 4evermaat.
Once again, we apologize for any inconvenience this situation could cause you.
Nevertheless, our actions are justified in full accordance with the Customer Agreement - in the current situation no orders (profit or loss) can be restored from the time of delayed market prices (13.08.2019).

DEAR FBS PLEASE READ I SEND LAST EMAIL . THERE IS BIG OFFER TO YOU . AFTER I GUARANTEE CLOSE THIS CASE AND I CAN DELETE FACE BOOK BAD WRITING REVIEW. AND I CAN DELETE THIS YOUTUBE VIDEO . IF THIS VIDEO SEE PEOPLE. NEVER JOIN TO FBS. THINK. AND PROTECT YOUR COMPANY .

 

[4evermaat]

You see 72258$ of profit on your balance since all the orders opened and closed before the lagging in quote translation system (started on 13.08.2019) have been returned. All the orders (profitable or lossmaking) opened and closed on 13.08.2019 have been cancelled for the following reason:
On 13.08.2019 upon internal investigation, we have identified lagging in the quotes translation system that resulted in a delayed delivery of prices to the trading server of MetaTrader5 from the liquidity provider. This delay was as well recorded by the market price monitoring systems. Thereunder, with quotes lagging being fixed, according to the world market practice as well as to the Customer Agreement (p.3.2.12., 3.2.13., 8.6.), the orders opened during the lagging were cancelled, as well as profit or loss of such orders.

20% of me is still concerned about the lack of transparency in how FBS reached conclusion that off-market pricing occurred.

Trades were made throughout the day for each trading day, including 2019.08.13, over several pairs, on mt5. But even mt4, the facts would have been the same.

A few seconds can be like a few months trading financial derivatives. That is why finality in trading is needed. If a broker (or LP) cannot offer finality of a trade, they are worthless. Especially if they are using mt5, which is designed to connect to exchanges and LP's directly without the need for additional bridge like mt4.

@FBS Official Rep

So the latency/off-quotes price feed was isolated only to 2019.08.13 (August 13th). I accept this possibility. But some important questions remain unanswered:

1) Can you please attach a pdf copy of the customer agreement here? The one that was in force on or before 2019.08.13. If the attachment is bigger than 1MB, you may provide a public link here from your website (or use cloud service like google drive, dropbox, etc).

2) Can FBS elaborate in detail as to how the latency was determined? Do you have any communication from LP that details which times the latency occurs, and which trades were affected?

The journal logs and history shows that the trading style and execution times is consistent for the entire period from when trading started. The only pattern that was different was the size of the trade (it was already increasing as available account equity got bigger, like compounding). It is convenient (for FBS) that the day latency occurred was also the most profitable day for the client. 72,400/215,000 = 0.337 So about 67% of the total profit was removed/kept in FBS's pocket.

3) Did you alert all clients of this off-quotes markets condition on 2019.08.13? This thread is focused on Gayan Lakshantha, but this type of error would affect all FBS clients, correct? So where is the blog post, twitter post, or email copy sent to clients that explains the specifics of what happened that day? And what steps were taken to prevent future occurrence.

Are you also saying that all clients trading those pairs (or any pairs) on 2019.08.13 all had their profits/losses zero-ed out? If I were a trader at FBS, i would certainly want to be notified of such
incidences immediately. I wouldn't want to just login and see part of my account history gone without an explanation.

4) Is every client's execution for the same currency pairs increased? Mr Gayan also reported a sudden increase in execution times after the 72k was returned to his account. Before the execution time was around 500ms (which is close to the 400ms over 95% of trades executed with FBS) you advertise.

But now it is 2000-3000ms (2-3 seconds) average and it appears it might even increase in the future. Again, this is from the same vps and identical ping times. Perhaps you may want to update that advertisement.

Further, we would like to inform you that orders execution time depends not only on the ping, but on the market liquidity, order queue and connection, since not always the ping along the route is 70-80 ms. Liquidity providers never guarantee momentary execution, e.g. even on the site of Nomura you can find the following information: NAM UK executes client orders as soon as practical, unless postponing execution is likely to produce a better outcome for the client, for example, where the trader believes that market impact and price movement will be limited by managing an order over a period of time. It is absolutely consistent with the information on the site: we guarantee order execution up to 5 sec, statistically 95% of the orders are executed for less than 400 ms, but this doesn’t mean that it cannot be longer or faster.

Funny that I communicate with some PoP broker and they said avg turnaround time for majors among the standard mt4 liquidity pool is 10ms (+ time to/from client terminal). If the execution goes above a threshold like 150ms (which is really high under normal market conditions), they can be removed from that pool with a few clicks. And they offer finality of the trade execution (which is the whole point of using broker). But that is another thread altogether, as this is about FBS's services.

DEAR FBS PLEASE READ I SEND LAST EMAIL . THERE IS BIG OFFER TO YOU . AFTER I GUARANTEE CLOSE THIS CASE AND I CAN DELETE FACE BOOK BAD WRITING REVIEW. AND I CAN DELETE THIS YOUTUBE VIDEO . IF THIS VIDEO SEE PEOPLE. NEVER JOIN TO FBS. THINK. AND PROTECT YOUR COMPANY .

We want to be fair to both sides. If there is legitimate off-quotes situation on 2019.08.13, fbs should provide more information on how they calculated the off-quotes situation.

Even if they provide real proof that there was latency in their feed for all of 2019.08.13, This would imply that all trades made on the same day (2019.08.13) for all FBS clients would be invalid. That certainly inconveniences all FBS clients on that day. Check your email for any recent notice that was issued from FBS to clients about that day.

FPA doesn't delete threads. But it does routinely marks the title as "resolved" (and eventually locks thread from further replies) if all owed funds are returned or if a settlement is reached that both sides agree to in exceptional cases. This is certainly an exceptional case. I think the evidence on other places (youtube, facebook, etc) should remain if it is factual. But that is up to you.