FIG FX took back 400 USD of my interest earnings

Messages
14
Here is the review that I have just posted in the Reviews section.

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FIG FX deducted 400 USD of my swap earnings today for trades that I made in December 2009 and January 2010.

I at first noticed that my equity was around 1400 USD, whereas before I knew it was around 1800 USD. So I checked the Account History and there was an item "Balance Adj." with the amount -402 USD.

I contacted FIG FX via Live Chat and asked why funds were deducted. The guy claimed that the swap rates for USDTRY back then were incorrect. Those trades were opened and closed long ago. Is it right for him to now take back my earnings?

I put forward my point of view to him in the conversation, using the example that if he offered to sell me something for a price, and I accept that offer, then the deal is done; he can't just now (after 3 months) say "sorry I was wrong" and change history and take my profits. Such is the bahaviour of a scam broker.

I asked him to refund what was deducted, giving him the chance to quickly make things fair and settled, stating that I would otherwise go public with my experience at ForexPeaceArmy. He basically said "go ahead", and said he will accept whatever judgement FPA makes.

By the end of the converation I noticed that the "Balance Adj." line in the Account History was now gone. Deleting/editing Account history is more evidence of scam broker behaviour.

Since FIG FX declined to settle this quickly over live chat, it is now up to ForexPeaceArmy to pass down judgement, and FIG FX has agreed to accept it whatever it may be.

I will post the chat transcript in the discussion forum.
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Here is the transcript.


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Welcome Philip, Your request has been directed to FIG Solutions's Customer Support (EN) department. Our operator will be answering your call shortly; please hold-on.
Call accepted by FIG Solutions's operator Live Operator. Currently in room: Live Operator.
Live Operator:
Hello, May I help you sir
Philip:
Why has funds been deducted from my account with description "Balance Adj."?
Live Operator:
Sir .. as we mentioned to day there were a problem with USDTRY swaps it is $3.4 for the standard lot
Live Operator:
so the amounts have been fixed
Philip:
I traded USDTRY a long time ago, I earned it
Philip:
How can you go back and say it was wrong when I traded based on what you offered?
Live Operator:
No problem with the profits at all the problem was with the SWAPS, and I guess sir you knew that it they weren't true
Philip:
No, you offered that so I traded
Philip:
You can't just say sorry and take my swap earnings away
Live Operator:
Sir we fixed the mistake, do believe that 5 0.5 lot make more than $100 as a swap in one day !?
Live Operator:
you were hunting that mistake
Philip:
I don't know, I traded based on what you offered
Philip:
How would I know it was a mistake?
Philip:
You can change it for the future, and I'd react accordingly
Live Operator:
the swap for short USDTRY is $3.4 for standard lot
Philip:
I don't know what the proper rate is, I just traded based on what I saw
Philip:
I took what you offered. You can go back and change your mind
Philip:
The deal was done
Live Operator:
you figured out the problem sir and you kept hunting it, is it right ?
Philip:
You can't go back and change your mind
Philip:
Figured out what problem? How would I know it was a problem?
Live Operator:
not changing minds you know that it was a problem, am I right sir ?
Philip:
If you offer something then I decide to either take it or not. It was not a problem
Philip:
You offer to sell something for a price, I either buy it or not
Philip:
If I buy it, you can;t just say, sorry, my price was wrong
Philip:
after I had bought it a long time ago
Philip:
Please refund what I earned
Philip:
I didn't do anything illegal
Philip:
Otherwise I will write on ForexPeaceArmy
Philip:
You will be labeled as a scam broker
Philip:
who takes traders profits away however way they can with various excuses
Live Operator:
Send an email to them and register a case with FPA and lets see what there judgment will be sir, they know what is the truth and we will accept there judgment
Philip:
I will remain quiet if you refund my valid earnings
Live Operator:
Have a good luck with your case ... again we will accept there judgment and both of us will be happy
Philip:
I would not just send an email, I woud write a public review and in the forum
Live Operator:
As I said have a good luck
Live Operator:
Lets meet you there
Philip:
I would also save this message and show it in my review and forum post.
Live Operator:
Yes and we will just in case if you changed anything, FPA will be fair
Philip:
You want to fight over 400 USD? That's probably not a lot of money to you, is it worth it? We can end it quickly if you can just be fair and refund my earnings.
Live Operator:
We are not looking for $400, as you said be fair and we will you hunt a problem and any problem should be fixed
Philip:
What problem? I never saw it as a problem. I already explained it: You offer to sell something for a price, and I decide to buy it. You can't just go back and say "sorry I was wrong" long after I had bought it. We are not talking about price quotes here that last for milliseconds that can be erroneous (e.g. price spikes / bad quotes). We are talking about swap rates whose numbers stay constant for days. You had plenty of chance to change the number if you felt it was too high.
Philip:
You can simply change the number going forward.
Philip:
You shouldn't be going backward on deals that are done and closed
Live Operator:
Sir, You said that you will complain to FPA, and we agreed
Philip:
Those deals were done in December 2009 and January 2010.
Philip:
I'm giving you a chance to fix it quickly now before I create bad publicity.
Philip:
If traders read that you delete past profits, that's is quite bad publicity.
Live Operator:
Sir again "WE WILL ACCEPT FPA JUDGMENT WHATEVER IT WILL BE, NOTHING MORE"
Philip:
Did you delete the "Balance Adj" line from the Account history?
Live Operator has left the conversation. Currently in room: Philip.
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Messages
14
For those who aren't aware, FIGfx offers a rebate of 1 pip per trade to Introducing Brokers.

Now what if FIGfx one day decides that it has been too generous with their rebate rate (their spread for EURUSD is 1 pip, after all). Would it then be right for them to lower their rebate to 0.5 pip per trade and retrospectively deduct half of all historical rebate earnings that have been made so far by their Introducing Brokers?

That's basically what has happened to me. They offered something attractive and I accepted it, then they decided months later that they were being too generous and took it back.

Can a Forex Peace Army representative please respond? I would appreciate your help very much.
 

AsstModerator

FPA Forums and Reviews Admin
Messages
5,554
Unless FIG wants me to have the full FPA Scam Investigations Committee take a look at this here's my opinion. Look at the date that Fig first entered the adjustment. Any trades 31 days old or older should not be adjusted. I'll say they can recover any money lost to errors from any trades 30 days old or less.

I think 30 days is very generous to Fig FX under these circumstances. If a broker makes an error this large with swap rates, the broker should notice within a few days or a couple of weeks at most.

I request that Fig's representative to the FPA to post in this thread and let me know if he agrees or if I should pass this to the FPA Scam Investigations Committee.
 
Messages
14
Thank you for your prompt response, AsstModerator.

Look at the date that Fig first entered the adjustment.
The adjustment was made less than 24h ago. The "Balance Adj." line in Account History was deleted near the end of my conversation, when I had threatened to go public on Forex Peace Army about my experience. You can see that I asked him whether he deleted the line, and he simply left the chat session. So basically he deleted it in an attempt to remove evidence before any investigation.


Any trades 31 days old or older should not be adjusted.
Here is a screen capture of my Account history that shows the open and close dates of the USDTRY trades (after adjustments to the swap amounts had already been made):



I believe the only changes that were made to my Account History were the earned swap amounts and not the dates nor prices nor profits. The swap values that you see in this screen capture are much smaller than what they were before. I did not take a screen capture of my terminal before adjustments were made. I do have Daily Confirmation email messages however, and can dig them up from my email account if required.

You can see that the earliest open date was 2009-12-28 and the latest close date was 2010-01-18. The adjustments were made on 2010-03-02, which is 64 days from the earliest open date and 43 days from the latest close date. Either of these are greater than 30 days.

FIGfx, you agreed to accept whatever judgement FPA makes regarding this case. An FPA representative has responded, stating that "Any trades 31 days old or older should not be adjusted." It is now time for you to either respond with your side or simply settle now by refunding the 402 USD of earnings that you took yesterday. Whatever decision you make will have an affect on your future business, as this Scam Report will be here for as long as this web site and discussion forum exists, and it is accessed by thousands of potential clients every day. I'd recommend doing what's best for your future business.

Thank you again AsstModerator & FPA, for your prompt response.
 
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We concur with the FPA's AsstModerator. Had this been referred to us, the only difference would be that we would have set the deadline to 2 weeks instead of 30 days.

Brokers are allowed to correct mistakes as long as it is done within a reasonable time frame. This went on from December 28th to January 18th and was not corrected until much later.
 
Messages
14
Thank you too, Scam Investigations Committee, for your response.

Even 2 weeks from the trade date could be considered as very generous.

I'm aware that FIGfx is not regulated, but if they were regulated by NFA, they would not be allowed to make any adjustments at all, or only within 15 minutes of the order being executed, depending on whether the broker exclusively operates a "straight-through processing" model:

Price Adjustments

For orders executed after June 12, 2009, Compliance Rule 2-43(a) will prohibit an FDM from adjusting executed customer orders, with two exceptions. The first exception is where the adjustment is done to settle a customer complaint in favor of the customer. The second exception is where an FDM exclusively operates a "straight-through processing" model and the liquidity provider with which it entered into the automatic offsetting position changes the price of an executed order with the FDM.

Pursuant to the new rule, an FDM that adjusts an executed customer order based on an adjustment by a liquidity provider must provide notice to the affected customer within fifteen minutes of the customer order being executed. The notice must state that the FDM intends to cancel or adjust the order and must include documentation of the price adjustment from the liquidity provider. The FDM must either cancel or adjust all customer orders executed during the same time period and in the same currency pair or option regardless of whether they were buy or sell orders. All cancellations or adjustments of executed customer orders must be reviewed and approved by a listed principal of the FDM who is also an associated person. Such review must be in writing and include the documentation from the liquidity provider, and the written review and documentation must be provided to NFA at forex@nfa.futures.org. Finally, any FDM that may elect to cancel or adjust executed customer orders based upon liquidity provider price changes must provide customers with written notice of that fact prior to the time they first engage in forex transactions.

A copy of new Compliance Rule 2-43 is attached for your convenience. NFA's submission letter to the CFTC contains more detailed explanations of the changes, and you can access an electronic copy of the letter at:

http://www.nfa.futures.org/news/PDF/CFTC/CR2_43_ForexPriceAdj_112408.pdf
Source: Effective Date of NFA Requirements Regarding Forex Orders


There was plenty of time for FIGfx to update their swap rates in their MetaTrader Administrator after I had opened the first USDTRY trade on 2009-12-28. All it takes is manually entering two numbers in the Swaps tab:




I will report back here either when I see the refund from FIGfx in my trading account, or if I do not see any refund within the next 24 hours.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Javier Keeth

FigFx Representative
Messages
160
Thanks FPA: Case Solved [14 days rollback ONLY]

We concur with the FPA's AsstModerator. Had this been referred to us, the only difference would be that we would have set the deadline to 2 weeks instead of 30 days.

Brokers are allowed to correct mistakes as long as it is done within a reasonable time frame. This went on from December 28th to January 18th and was not corrected until much later.
Hello FPA,

As we have told the client during our chat, we will accept, and proceed by the FPA judgment. I will personally take care that the mentioned account is adjusted based on the common suggested instructions above, 2 weeks.

ps> Mr. Phillip,
Just a small correction, your earnings were not modified in anyway. Those were SWAP rates, that were calculated and credited in positive, instead of negative as it should be.

Hope the solutions satisfies all parties.
Thank you all thread contributors.
 
Messages
14
I will personally take care that the mentioned account is adjusted based on the common suggested instructions above, 2 weeks.
Javier, you are trying to twist the words of FPA.

What we've been talking about are time periods from the trade date within which it is acceptable for you to make adjustments to the trade. After such a time period, it is no longer acceptable for you to make any changes to the historical trade. AsstModerator quoted 30 days allowance; Scam Investigations Committee quoted 2 weeks; I quoted 15 minutes for NFA regulated brokers which is a lot tougher.

All of those durations from the trade dates have passed, therefore it was not acceptable for you to make any modifications to those historical trades.

Since you deducted 402 USD, I now expect you to deposit a withdrawable amount of 402 USD back into my trading account.


your earnings were not modified in anyway. Those were SWAP rates, that were calculated and credited in positive, instead of negative as it should be.
The Swap column in Account History is the total amount earned due to swap for the trade. That is what has been modified.

Hope the solutions satisfies all parties.
Your solution is unsatisfactory. The more you try to fight and twist words, the worse you look in this Scam Alert record.
 

Javier Keeth

FigFx Representative
Messages
160
Mis-adjusted balance fully refunded

Hello FPA, Everybody,

As mentioned above, and based on the FPA judgement, we adjusted the balance for the account mentioned in this case to reflect changes only in trades that were entered during the last 14 days.

As no trades were entered in this period, money deducted for the miscalculated SWAPs was refunded, fully.

We would kindly appreciate a confirmation from the account owner.

Thanks FPA, and as you see Mr. Phillip, when we told you that the FPA is the best place to seek a solution, we meant it.

Have a nice day
 

PipStar

Sergeant
Messages
223
Keeth, I don't understand why you would get yourself into all that bad publicity for your company for the grand sum of USD 402.00

The only clients you will get now are probably the unsuspecting. Anyone who reads about your practices will just stay away from your company.
 
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